Making the copilot feel safe...

[HGR]

I'll try and keep this as short as possible but in a nutshell, my wife is not overly comfortable boating now that we have moved to the Sunshine Coast and have moved from a 23' walk around to a 33' flybridge. Conditions since we've been here, best case scenario, have been approx 1.2 meter swell and 10 knots of wind. General conditions have been 1.6 meter swell and 15 knots of wind.

Previously our boating was in NZ and we only went inshore and when the weather permitted. We are now essentially in full offshore conditions with no access to any structure for a swell or wind break immediately after exiting the bar. It's actually the opposite where we see random wave action due to the underwater reef structures. The swell + wind chop makes for a fairly rapid wave period.

Back to the point, my copilot is not enjoying life on the flybridge with these conditions. It's not much of a bother to me as I get used to it in 10 minutes or so. She isn't building confidence that quickly. Anyone else been through this or have any suggestions?

 

[Comodave]

My wife isn’t a big fan of big sea conditions either. However she trusts in my knowledge and she has quite a bit of boating knowledge also. She used to teach boating safety courses. I explain the difference between conditions being uncomfortable and being dangerous. One of the things I would recommend is to get her a boating safety class. We aren’t as afraid of things we understand. Things that we don’t understand can be much more worrying. Let her learn how to handle the boat in controlled conditions first and work her way up to the more normal conditions in your area. Then let her control the boat so she won’t feel as helpless, maybe. Good luck, hope it works out for her, and you.

 

[HGR]

The course is a good idea. I believe it's all just new to her and she isn't comfortable with the new sensation of being a pendulous object aloft 3 meters above the water's surface. Letting her get a grip on the controls, and feeling the control, would likely make things a bit better.

Thinking through it today, there are likely a few other options which I'll start working on. The helm seats have just a bit of play in them which makes them "clunk" a bit when the sea is rough, that seems unsettling. I also have no grab bars or anything like that for the copilot which may help as well.

 

[Bacchus]

My wife isn’t a big fan of big sea conditions either. However she trusts in my knowledge and she has quite a bit of boating knowledge also. She used to teach boating safety courses. I explain the difference between conditions being uncomfortable and being dangerous. One of the things I would recommend is to get her a boating safety class. We aren’t as afraid of things we understand. Things that we don’t understand can be much more worrying. Let her learn how to handle the boat in controlled conditions first and work her way up to the more normal conditions in your area. Then let her control the boat so she won’t feel as helpless, maybe. Good luck, hope it works out for her, and you.

Very good advice! Knowledge is powerful especially if followed up with building experience. I would make it a goal to jointly discuss conditions that start to make her uncomfortable coupled with what you might be able to do to help... like the grab bars etc you mentioned.
Then progress to more challenging conditions and discuss her reaction. Is it discomfort or fear? BIG difference. She has to understand that you understand and appreciate her reactions and that they are real... not bogus, unrealistic, etc they are what they are and everyone reacts differently.
Hopefully by taking and working together you can jointly make some progress. Some our most memorable and challenging situations have become benchmarks that we refer back to as being uncomfortable, not enjoyable but we learned were not necessarily dangerous just because they were uncomfortable.
One question I usually ask folks that return to home port after a harrowing experience re conditions is whether they felt insecure enough to put on a life jacket? If not why not? Maybe a comfortable inflatable would provide some level of security?

 

[Marco Flamingo]

One of the things I would recommend is to get her a boating safety class.

I've been through similar scenarios a couple of times. I had my wife take a boating safety class when we bought our new boat. We had boats of the same size in the past, but the State of Washington now requires a boating card and this was the easiest way for her pass the test.

I have learned over the years that she doesn't get comfortable if I am the teacher. I couldn't teach her how to telemark (I was just criticizing her), a friend did in an evening. I couldn't teach her an eskimo roll (I was just criticizing her), she took a one-day class. I couldn't explain why taking heavy spray over the bow doesn't signify imminent death, she had to hear it from somebody else. Maybe I have earned her distrust over the years, but if I say "this won't hurt," she would run away.

Just saying that sometimes a third party's input is required.

 

[FWT]

"Just saying that sometimes a third party's input is required."

This

Also, if you have a lower inside helmstation, there are good reasons to use it when conditions worsen. Reasons such as her comfort.

 

[FWT]

We are headed toward a new build. The Mrs. has requested additional hand-holds in certain spots. We will do that if for no other reason than peace of mind.

 

[OldDan1943]

I heard it said, a woman will accept instructions and guidance better from another woman.

Right now, I am trying to find someone fluent in Vietnamese to train my sweetie.

 

[Shrew]

Get out of flybridge boats and look at something like what Bacchus has in his signature. When we had our express, my wife would ride out significantly rougher conditions. Up on the flybridge of our boat, she definitely feels less comfortable with the motion.

 

[ancora]

The Sicilian pilots the boat while I navigate. She can steer a straight line, a skill that eludes me. She can back the boat out of the slip, but docking is a whole other thing.

 

[Creek]

I agree with all the above and would add that if you give her the wheel it will make her feel more in control as well as giving her a better sense of the boat's capabilities. This will build her confidence.

 

[SteveK]

I heard it said, a woman will accept instructions and guidance better from another woman.

Right now, I am trying to find someone fluent in Vietnamese to train my sweetie.

Is that why harems are popular in some cultures?

 

[mvweebles]

I was the first TrawlerFest University instructor back in 2000 or so. I did multiple all-womens' classes and they were a blast. Despite having taught 100s of people how to run their boat, I still can't teach La Princessa (Cheryll) a dang thing. In fact, Step 1 in teaching her is to hide the sharp objects and hope she hasn't hidden one at the helm.

Kidding aside, my best thinking is to get her onto a boat with a professional, an all-woman's charter would be ideal. If you were in the US, I would recommend SeaSenseBoating. Women learn much differently than men. Men create a plan in their mind and don't learn a damn thing watching someone else - they want time to try their plan and will stick with it come hell or high water. On the other hand, women are much more curious and open-minded. They watch carefully and are really supportive of one another. I firmly believe 3 women in a joint 1-day hands-on class will learn more than if all three received private 1-day instruction.

So how will this make the OP's wife more comfortable in open water? There's a sense of empowerment and enablement that comes with knowing how to drive a boat. You start to sense and feel it differently. So while I'm pretty sure it will help, I do know it couldn't hurt. And I promise, she will be a better partner in the boat if she's comfortable driving it, especially know that if you were to have a tragic accident, she'd be able to respond. Just visualizing herself at the helm is incredibly empowering and fulfilling.

Good luck -

Peter

 

[moparharn]

Was she truly comfortable in the old surroundings? If so, she can be in the new as well even if it is a different sea state. Knowledge is power, and power is confidence. It might be helpful to talk about the new place in terms of what is different and how that effects what she is experiencing. The physical differences in the area you are now and how that manifests in a different sea experience for her. A good explanation of what is perfectly fine and what is not. Wave period, angle, breaking, etc. Boat angle to the wave, speed, riding the front, trough, or back of a wave. A comfortable and easy to understand explanation of why where you are is different , but not more dangerous when we do this or that. Let her handle the boat as you explain these things. Let experience it for herself, but only in a sea state that you know will not cause ANY kind of problem. Then build from there. My wife does not like a pronounced lean. If we get much beyond 15 degrees it will result in a loud ughhhhh, which is my alert for cut that sh*t out. Maybe an explanation of stability, righting moment, etc. Have you violated her trust in the past? If so, admit it and tell her that it was a mistake you don't intend to repeat. If she has interest in understanding weather and the new patterns in your area that will really help in conjunction with how the new area responds to that weather. Knowledge will grow her confidence and trust. Good luck. Everything has its limits.

 

[mvweebles]

....It might be helpful to talk about the new place in terms of what is different and how that effects what she is experiencing. The physical differences in the area you are now and how that manifests in a different sea experience for her. A good explanation of what is perfectly fine and what is not. Wave period, angle, breaking, etc. Boat angle to the wave, speed, riding the front, trough, or back of a wave. A comfortable and easy to understand explanation of why where you are is different , but not more dangerous when we do this or that.....

Ugh....I wish this would work. I have tens-of-thousands of offshore sea miles, have captained many boats, and can fix all manner of things. I have taught marine classes (though not design).

I have no more credibility with La Princessa than a guy in an orange smock in the hardware aisle of Home Depot.

Where I have made some headway with Cheryll (aka La Princessa) is she deeply trusts Wm Garden, the designer of Willard 36 sedans. Best I can figure is she somehow assimilates the underbody of a Willard with a whale. However she got there, she trusts the boat. No amount of tech-talk would ever change that, for or against. It's just not how she learns. Even if she did, she'd never accept it from me.

I have to say that the big turning point for her was learning to dock my first boat, a Willard 30. As a matter of fact, she was pissed at me for a year when I sold that boat and bought the W36 and she had to start over again. She's a delightful companion of 24+ years, but she does not take well to change.....

Peter

 

[firehoser75]

By the way, I loved Mooloolaba when I visited Australia and NZ a few years ago!
I agree with all of the other suggestions. Get her some "hands on" training (from someone else, a "professional" in her eyes), and/or some "safety at sea" training. Let her take the wheel. Most wives, take instruction from others much better than from their husband. Maybe take the training with her, but if you do, don't offer suggestions to her, leave that to the instructor.

But, if at all possible, operate from a "lower helm". Boat motion is amplified on the flybridge!! The lower helm won't eliminate the issue, but it will offer some improvement. Install hand hold where needed, but make sure they are secure.
Good luck.

 

[AusCan]

I'd agree with others regarding training from others, and reducing the motion.

My wife also associates awkward motion with danger. When the conditions get ugly, she heads down to our berth in the centre of the boat where it has the least motion, and says "call me if you need me".

The right training course might be hard to find, but it should be easy enough to pilot from the lower helm.

 

[ljk]

Comfortable co pilot

I'll try and keep this as short as possible but in a nutshell, my wife is not overly comfortable boating now that we have moved to the Sunshine Coast and have moved from a 23' walk around to a 33' flybridge. Conditions since we've been here, best case scenario, have been approx 1.2 meter swell and 10 knots of wind. General conditions have been 1.6 meter swell and 15 knots of wind.

Previously our boating was in NZ and we only went inshore and when the weather permitted. We are now essentially in full offshore conditions with no access to any structure for a swell or wind break immediately after exiting the bar. It's actually the opposite where we see random wave action due to the underwater reef structures. The swell + wind chop makes for a fairly rapid wave period.

Back to the point, my copilot is not enjoying life on the flybridge with these conditions. It's not much of a bother to me as I get used to it in 10 minutes or so. She isn't building confidence that quickly. Anyone else been through this or have any suggestions?

What kind of boat is it? If a shallow v like a searay, regal, etc. I would venture that very few people are going to be comfortable on a fly bridge in 1.6 meter seas. Including me. And I am a lifetime boater.


Could I take it? Sure. Comfortably? No.

 

[FF]

"if you give her the wheel it will make her feel more in control as well as giving her a better sense of the boat's capabilities. This will build her confidence."

If she has the wheel she will have something to hold on to, so the motion high up will seem less violent.

 

[ljk]

Give her the wheel

"if you give her the wheel it will make her feel more in control as well as giving her a better sense of the boat's capabilities. This will build her confidence."

If she has the wheel she will have something to hold on to, so the motion high up will seem less violent.

This is certainly worth trying. I wonder how she behaves while driving in a car? Is copilot less stressed when she is driving?

 

[Bacchus]

HGR
Too bad you haven't heard from some of the female TF members...
Before you go "suggesting" any of the above "fixes" I would get some input from other females and then have a discussion w your mate re how she would feel about any of those. Ask a couple open ended questions and then mostly LISTEN.
If you can find a way to have her define, design the path forward you have a winner.

 

[Portage_Bay]

HGR
Too bad you haven't heard from some of the female TF members...
Before you go "suggesting" any of the above "fixes" I would get some input from other females and then have a discussion w your mate re how she would feel about any of those. Ask a couple open ended questions and then mostly LISTEN.
If you can find a way to have her define, design the path forward you have a winner.

The best advice given in this thread yet! I wish I were better at heeding it....

 

[HGR]

Thanks for all of the advice team. After a discussion we've ascertained that it's mostly anxiety around unknowns. I've contacted the local coastguard at Mooloolaba and they have linked me with a retired CG captain who is going to meet with us and give us some lessons on our boat in local waters.

 

[backinblue]

"Just saying that sometimes a third party's input is required."

This

Also, if you have a lower inside helmstation, there are good reasons to use it when conditions worsen. Reasons such as her comfort.

Agreed. Flybridge is great in nice conditions, horrible in rough ones. Still I wish I had one. That said, being completely inside under a hard roof close to the water in rough conditions helps with comfort level.

 

[Spinner]

Hm, where to start.... don’t take operator’s training as a couple, get it done individually! It’s best not to teach your SO yourself.

Regarding the boat: ask yourself why you are you on the flybridge in uncomfortable conditions? Do you modify your speed, direction of approach, etc to best match conditions, or do you just plan to blast through at speed regardless?

I ran across a couple up in the Broughtons a few years back. She was really frustrated and wanted some time at the helm, but was refused by her SO. We were both headed from Pierre’s to Kwatsi Bay, do I offered to take her with me and give her the helm. Once she was on her own, she did fine! I taught her a few things and we had a nice little cruise to Kwatsi Bay.

People who are in control (driving the boat) tend to be less anxious. Try to achieve that!

It sounds like your upcoming boat will have features to make it more comfortable underway - alway a good plan IMHO

Good luck!

 

[backinblue]

Hm, where to start.... don’t take operator’s training as a couple, get it done individually! It’s best not to teach your SO yourself.

Regarding the boat: ask yourself why you are you on the flybridge in uncomfortable conditions? Do you modify your speed, direction of approach, etc to best match conditions, or do you just plan to blast through at speed regardless?

I ran across a couple up in the Broughtons a few years back. She was really frustrated and wanted some time at the helm, but was refused by her SO. We were both headed from Pierre’s to Kwatsi Bay, do I offered to take her with me and give her the helm. Once she was on her own, she did fine! I taught her a few things and we had a nice little cruise to Kwatsi Bay.

People who are in control (driving the boat) tend to be less anxious. Try to achieve that!

It sounds like your upcoming boat will have features to make it more comfortable underway - alway a good plan IMHO

Good luck!

Keep in mind that not all boats with a flybridge also have a lower helm.

 

[Capt Ray]

I agree with all the other posts. Excellent advice. Knowledge is the best way to overcome fear. I just figured I would bring an additional angle to the forum, and help you think outside the box for a way forward.

I am blessed with an Admiral who loves cruising as much as I do. She is just as passionate about it as I am. Bottom line is that this is rare, and I appreciate it. I am very grateful, and I don't take it for granted. I'm sure none of us do.

First, a true story: A great friend of mine had a long-time dream to do The Great Loop. His wife was fine with The Loop, but a little nervous about retiring early, but together did a very commendable job of building a nest egg over their careers and 401Ks. TWO independent financial planners blessed their retirement plan. So she was good! They bought their Looper boat, worked their notices at work, and set off on The Loop. Nine months later he is still living his dream, but they divorced amicably, she moved back home, and got her old job back. They are both happy... they simply had different visions for how to spend their finite amount of time remaining in their life.

Thought 2:
There are many places you can do your boating. I don't know if you are in British Columbia or Florida, as I think either have areas called "Sunshine Coast". Today we live on the south shore of Long Island NY. There are ample places to go "on the inside" of the barrier islands, without having to "go outside" unless on a significant cruise (to NYC or Block Is. or eastern ports of Long Island.) In those cases, we can 1) pick our weather days, and 2) leave at sun-up and be destinated by 1:00pm when the winds typically pick up.

I wish you both well! Good luck!

Wish us luck, as we push off for our first Loop run this spring!

Just to be 100% clear... the true story is not offered as a "SOLUTION" per se!!! Rather, a true indicator of the high stakes that are sometimes in play.

 

[Spinner]

True!

 

[AlaskaProf]

This is certainly worth trying. I wonder how she behaves while driving in a car? Is copilot less stressed when she is driving?

Certainly the case with our automotive experience. As I've told my daughter, "your mother is a pretty good driver, but she is a lousy passenger."

Might try it on the boat. She has steered many times, but never in what I would call a stress-inducing situation.

 

[Seevee]

I would STRONGLY argue to take her out in only perfect conditions for a period of time, until she does get comfy with it. And this would apply to ANY learning event for someone starting out. Start with very comfortable basics... and that may take some time.



Let her just steer for a bit, operate the throttles, but not much. You do the docking and undocking. If this even look like any issue, return home.


I've had good and bad luck teaching my SO how to fly, boat, or whatever. My BEST experiences were when I gave them the basics as above, then hired a trainer to get them beyond the basics... slowly, perhaps a few lessons or more. Then we start operating as a team... decide who does what, when and whose in command. Then we practice. Now, my current lady both flies the plane and operates the boat as a co captain. But, seeing how the boat is mine, I will stay as Captain in command.


Now, as an alternative, leave the wife at home and get a GF. She may not learn any faster but will most likely lead to a much more exciting life.