Major damage :(

[Nomad Willy]

Sorry this happened to you Lou,

Almost happened to me a few years ago.

Was putting Willy on the tidal grid in Alaska. Was very careful to tie up so three beams would be in the prefect position.
When the tide went out I was balanced on one beam. The beams ahead and behind had 1 1/2” of air between the keel and the beam. So all eight tons of boat was supported on one spot amidships. The beam was a steel I beam about 10” wide but no support under the boat except in the center at that one spot. In case you’re wondering I did put wedges tween the keel and beams at either end.

All went well though and never have found a trace of damage. Just got dumb lucky as I assumed the boat keel was straight. Ya Ya I know ... “makes a fool ... “ but I never thought of the keel being curved.

 

[markpierce]

Perhaps the crane operator wasn't sufficiently gentle in lowering the boat.

 

[leeman]

Sorry this had to happen Lou. But, as they say, if life hands you lemons make lemonade. This will be fixed better than new, and who knows, something good may come of it.

 

[Arc]

If you call your insurance co., it is a claim even if they don’t pay out. If the yard is taking care of it, let it go at that. Your insurance could go up even if they don’t pay out.

 

[Capitaine R]

Lou, So sorry to see this. I can only imagine your heart dropping when you first saw the damage.



I have check mine several times, but after seeing your pictures I just went out and checked it again.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Lou, So sorry to see this. I can only imagine your heart dropping when you first saw the damage.



I have check mine several times, but after seeing your pictures I just went out and checked it again.

Oh I just missed 3 or 4 beats nothing more, and almost collapsed lol

L

 

[boatpoker]

Your insurer will likely send a surveyor (rarely accredited) that rely on said ins. company for income.

Do not be hesitant to find an independant surveyor who likes going up against ins. companies.

 

[psneeld]

If you call your insurance co., it is a claim even if they don’t pay out. If the yard is taking care of it, let it go at that. Your insurance could go up even if they don’t pay out.

Do you know this as fact for all insurance companies?


I believe it has been posted before that it depends on you insurer.

 

[Northern Spy]

Buggah! This is why you and the yard have insurance. I'm sure it will work out fine.

 

[Barabus]

Sorry to see. I know I would be bummed too.

 

[BruceK]

Commiserations Lou, very sorry this has happened. Telling the insurer is not usually lodging a claim, but notification is important. If the Yard is sensible they will offer to do the repair, and they should meet the cost of a surveyor to advise you and supervise they are doing it right. If you claim on your insurance they will engage experts, and if they recover from the Yard,they should recover your excess and the expenses,and you may not be "down a claim". But if the Yard is sensible it should not get to that. Stay calm, cool, a bit indignant, but purposeful, and try and get it fixed. I can`t see the Yard not being liable, but some comments above are different. Have they successfully blocked it before? They were in control of the whole operation, they have to expect weather interventions etc, and allow for it.

 

[Woodland Hills]

If you insurance company seems like they won’t cover everything, hire an independent adjuster to work in your behalf.

 

[TDunn]

That is easily repaired. The repair itself will take less than a week. What is going to eat your boating season is all the steps that have to be gone through before the work is started (insurance adjuster, survey, negotiation with yard and yard's insurance (done by insurance not you), scheduling the repair either at the yard where the boat is now or at a different location, actually getting the work done and then finally a second survey of the repaired boat. Let your insurer handle it.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Update:

The story starts in an interesting way. I sent a message to the insurance co surveyor to confirm our meeting tomorrow early morning, he replied that yes we will meet at the marina at 8:30AM, good!
Around 7pm he sent a message saying he has a problem with his truck and won't be there tomorrow but sometimes later. Sorry for his truck issue but tomorrow will cost me a vacation day to go to see the marina owner, then another one to meet the insurance surveyor. On a side note I asked him if I am allowed to get the boat repositioned as I do not want to aggravate the issue, just want to have a written confirmation that I am allowed to do so or if not that any further issue will be on their shoulder not mine.

Lets see how this is going

L

 

[BruceK]

Update:

The story starts in an interesting way. I sent a message to the insurance co surveyor to confirm our meeting tomorrow early morning, he replied that yes we will meet at the marina at 8:30AM, good!
....On a side note I asked him if I am allowed to get the boat repositioned as I do not want to aggravate the issue, just want to have a written confirmation that I am allowed to do so or if not that any further issue will be on their shoulder not mine...L

Unless the damage is progressing,I would not reposition the boat until the surveyor has seen it just as it was blocked. Photos are good, but seeing it is better. You don`t want to risk diminishing his evidence,if it comes to that,and you want your insurer as well informed as possible. You have a duty to mitigate your loss but letting your surveyor make a full proper assessment matters too.

 

[O C Diver]

I've looked at those pictures a dozen times and still don't understand why the fiberglass gave way. Have helped block hundreds of boats, and never seen that happen. If anything gets crushed, it's the wood blocks. Wondering if the cloth didn't get fully wetted out or not enough hardener. Take lots of pictures of the repair process.

Ted

 

[Lou_tribal]

Unless the damage is progressing,I would not reposition the boat until the surveyor has seen it just as it was blocked. Photos are good, but seeing it is better. You don`t want to risk diminishing his evidence,if it comes to that,and you want your insurer as well informed as possible. You have a duty to mitigate your loss but letting your surveyor make a full proper assessment matters too.

My concern is that there are visible fatigue cracks on the side of the main crack so I am guessing (guessing may not be the right term, more expecting) that if nothing is changed the fracture will continue to move. I just got confirmation that I can ask the boat to be repositioned with more support.
I will take more pics before, will record the moving etc. I may be paranoid but better have more evidence than less.

L

 

[Lou_tribal]

I've looked at those pictures a dozen times and still don't understand why the fiberglass gave way. Have helped block hundreds of boats, and never seen that happen. If anything gets crushed, it's the wood blocks. Wondering if the cloth didn't get fully wetted out or not enough hardener. Take lots of pictures of the repair process.

Ted

Well for me that is a matter of physic and forces.
Take a 6+ tons boat with weight distributed on 3 points, 2 of them supporting the aft and the third supporting most if the weight (forward wood block). If the forward block is horizontal, supporting the weight on the full surface that is one thing.
Now replace the surface with an angle, you get the weight distributed on a surface that is 100 times smaller. Pressure on the point of contact is maximized, exceeding tolerance.
A bit like pushing your finger on a board, nothing happens, push your finger on a needle, it penetrates. In both case your finger does not change, just the surface you pushed on.

One evidence that allow me to think this is the issue is that the keel is not crushed. The crack just went vertical all the way up, at the vertical of the contact point, material was not crushed but cracked and pushed by the same distance the angle went in from below.

L

 

[Pau Hana]

You did step one perfectly. Ask marina for their liability insurer and contact them. Let your insurer fight for you. I would get a surveyor or independent repair shop to look at it and try to be there when your insurer looks. No work until appraisal of damage done.

Then sit back and think of the fact, you aren't hurt and your boat can be repaired. It's why you have insurance, whether marina is culpable or not. I'd be heartbroken but then try to put it in perspective.

Lots of armchair quarterbacking here, and the ONLY correct path is above. You pay premium for the insuring company to stand in on your behalf should a claim occur.

The main consideration that comes into play is the policy itself, and how it spells out its coverages. All the rest is merely interesting, but not really relevant.

If you call your insurance co., it is a claim even if they don’t pay out. If the yard is taking care of it, let it go at that. Your insurance could go up even if they don’t pay out.

Wrong, good sir- if an insuring company increases a rate merely because a claim is filed, it is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If a claim is paid on an insured’s behalf, there is a major change in the insured’s profile (such as a drastic change in credit history, change of risk location, etc) OR if an insuring company has a rate increase across the board, a rate change could be warranted.

 

[BruceK]

My concern is that there are visible fatigue cracks on the side of the main crack so I am guessing (guessing may not be the right term, more expecting) that if nothing is changed the fracture will continue to move. I just got confirmation that I can ask the boat to be repositioned with more support.
I will take more pics before, will record the moving etc. I may be paranoid but better have more evidence than less.

L

If the damage is possibly progressing,alleviating that is the right call. I assume the Yard is doing it. Might be a touch nerve racking seeing the load come off and go back on with repositioning. Can you video the repositioning,or at least take "before during and after' pics.
Note that if the Yard does it, and does it differently this time(although they have to now they are working around the existing damage)there can be an implied admission they got it wrong the first time,especially if they don`t bill you for repositioning.

 

[Lou_tribal]

If the damage is possibly progressing,alleviating that is the right call. I assume the Yard is doing it. Might be a touch nerve racking seeing the load come off and go back on with repositioning. Can you video the repositioning,or at least take "before during and after' pics.
Note that if the Yard does it, and does it differently this time(although they have to now they are working around the existing damage)there can be an implied admission they got it wrong the first time,especially if they don`t bill you for repositioning.

For sure I will take picture before during and after the move. I am a bit worrying about how they will reposition it in order to properly remove the stress on the damage without causing more damage!

L

 

[psneeld]

I've looked at those pictures a dozen times and still don't understand why the fiberglass gave way. Have helped block hundreds of boats, and never seen that happen. If anything gets crushed, it's the wood blocks. Wondering if the cloth didn't get fully wetted out or not enough hardener. Take lots of pictures of the repair process.

Ted

Agree Ted....or the blocks tend to settle a bit (in many ways).


Often the yard guys (or me) signal stop, relevel, shim or different blocks...then move on.


In this case I feel the block looks way too thin....but it still should have started crushing.


Will be interesting to find out what went on.

 

[Simi 60]

What can I say.
While it's terribly upsetting at the time,
Been there done that
Nobody died
Epoxy and E glass good
We live to fight another day.

 

[O C Diver]

Well for me that is a matter of physic and forces.
Take a 6+ tons boat with weight distributed on 3 points, 2 of them supporting the aft and the third supporting most if the weight (forward wood block). If the forward block is horizontal, supporting the weight on the full surface that is one thing.
Now replace the surface with an angle, you get the weight distributed on a surface that is 100 times smaller. Pressure on the point of contact is maximized, exceeding tolerance.
A bit like pushing your finger on a board, nothing happens, push your finger on a needle, it penetrates. In both case your finger does not change, just the surface you pushed on.

One evidence that allow me to think this is the issue is that the keel is not crushed. The crack just went vertical all the way up, at the vertical of the contact point, material was not crushed but cracked and pushed by the same distance the angle went in from below.

L

Agree Ted....or the blocks tend to settle a bit (in many ways).


Often the yard guys (or me) signal stop, relevel, shim or different blocks...then move on.


In this case I feel the block looks way too thin....but it still should have started crushing.


Will be interesting to find out what went on.

I have a 20+ ton vessel sitting on 4 keel blocks. The keel bottom is round not flat. 5+ tons rests on an area 8" by maybe 1". When you remove the boat, the 1" has grown to maybe 2" with wood compression.

Ted

 

[DHeckrotte]

Aieee!

Sad news, but all will be made good, as others have said before.

However, the boat will be blocked again. I’m accustomed to seeing wider blocks which would spread the load more. I’ve also seen many boats that have their lift points marked. It might be good to think ‘next time’ through carefully and consider if the repair should include more, or extra ‘glass at blocking places.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Here are some pictures about the current blocking I took this morning.



L

 

[bluebyu]

Looks like only one set of blocks under the keel?

If so, I would expect to see three sets, NOT one.
In my view, the supports, outboard at the stern are to keep the boat upright, not support major load.

Good luck with getting back in the water soon!

 

[Lou_tribal]

Looks like only one set of blocks under the keel?

If so, I would expect to see three sets, NOT one.
In my view, the supports, outboard at the stern are to keep the boat upright, not support major load.

Good luck with getting back in the water soon!

Indeed one set of block, they set all boats like this and I was told they never has any issue... well now they had one.

L

 

[Ski in NC]

It does look like only one set of blocks under keel. That's not good at all. Standard blocking is three depending on the boat size, could be more.

When I block my 38, it is definitely three. One under aft ER bulkhead, one under fwd ER bulkhead, one under fwd cabin bulkhead.

The stands don't really carry the load, they just provide stability. Keel blocks carry the load.

If they have really only set one block under the keel, then the damage is on them.

 

[Lou_tribal]

I will take Doug good advice and will paint a big BLOCK HERE on the hull under each bulkhead so this does not occur never again. Was wondering if having a full length beam under the keel supported by blocks would be a good idea.

L