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04-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
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Maintenance on stabilizers?
While looking at a new boat to me, it did not have stabilizers. Something I wanted. The owner said maintenance on them has to be done every 5 years at a cost of 30 grand. True or false? 48ft.
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04-18-2019, 12:17 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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FALSE.
Good grief, did he have his fingers crossed behind his back when he said this?
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04-18-2019, 12:26 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
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Thanks Menzies. I figured as much. Boat shopping is tough business. I walked away on that one. I have another in my sights WITH stabilizers.
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04-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Puget Sound
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 631
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If they are active stabilizers, about every 4 to 5 years the seals should be changed. we had this done with bottom paint. it added about a boat unit to the over all cost of the bottom paint.
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04-18-2019, 12:35 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta
If they are active stabilizers, about every 4 to 5 years the seals should be changed. we had this done with bottom paint. it added about a boat unit to the over all cost of the bottom paint.
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And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.
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04-18-2019, 12:38 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Puget Sound
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.
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Break out another thousand
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04-18-2019, 01:26 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_sea_ta
Break out another thousand
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Of course. That’s not bad then.
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04-18-2019, 09:32 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Sydney
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 261
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Hello Donna,
I have Wesmar hydraulic stabilisers.
They were installed six years prior to the purchase of my 40 year old boat.
I reckon the previous owner had never serviced them, so the first seal and bearing replacement would have been at 8 years. We also found and repaired some fin shaft corrosion. Two years later the seals, bearings and corrosion were OK and I plan to check them again in a year's time, meaning an average service interval of say, 3 years.
BTW for me, removing the fins is not a DIY job.
I wouldn't be without stabilisers. They make a huge difference, and well are worth the extra service time/costs - but then I'm crazy enough to own a wooden boat!
__________________
John
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04-18-2019, 09:36 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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John, it would help Donna if you shared the cost - because clearly it wasn't 30K!
Maybe shoot her a pm?
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04-18-2019, 09:40 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
City: Sydney
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
John, it would help Donna if you shared the cost - because clearly it wasn't 30K!
Maybe shoot her a pm?
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Good point!
Different time, different continent, but I seem to remember an additional day plus around Au$1800.00 on top of regular haul out.
__________________
John
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04-18-2019, 09:46 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
City: Lutz
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.
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one Nautical unit =$1000
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04-18-2019, 09:54 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Sea of Cortez, Mexico
Vessel Name: Irene
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 40II
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,235
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Donna,
The seal replacement can also be done by the boat owner. We have ABT TRAC stabilizers. ABT TRAC offers a free class and essentially teaches you how to do, what needs to be done.
A counterpoint for professional service could be not having the right tools and a helper, or running in to the ever-present “unforeseen obstacles”...but, does not have to be an expensive service affair in all cases.
Good Luck
__________________
Jeff
MV IRENE
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04-18-2019, 10:28 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Name: Akeeva
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 50
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 449
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Stabilizers are very high on my list of equipment for the next boat too!
Recently I watched/helped a friend replace Naiad seals on a Nordhavn 40. The job was surprisingly quick and easy...a few hours per fin, and we weren't rushing or particularly well versed in the process.
It did require a few specialized tools and a (borrowed) pallet jack to help handle the fins. Larger fins would be more difficult to wrestle on and off but I know owners who do it.
Replacing bearings is apparently more involved. I'm sure other things can go wrong, but I haven't heard of anyone approaching $30k in stabilizer maintenance, even when replacing entire electronic control boxes or fins.
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04-18-2019, 10:57 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,331
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I`ve no experience with stabilizers and interested in how they are powered. One boat of the class that interests me has a Gyro Seakeeper which I think was said to run on engine generated while running 12v. What does it run on if anchored? A genset, or turn them off and get rolly?
I`d be concerned about running a genset just to feed the stabilizers. Are some hydraulic and powered off the engine? It`s certainly worth thinking about for anyone interested in stabilizers. Of course some boats run a "small" genset 24/7,a larger one when required, so it may not be an imposition for those boats.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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04-19-2019, 05:14 AM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,262
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Seakeeper's will generally use 2500W, or more. So yes, likely that you will need to run a genny when anchored.
Naiad's, and ABT Trac & Wesmar are typically hydraulic although recently I believe electric is an option for some models. CMC Marine took out a patent in Europe for electric stabilisers, much to the chagrin of the hydraulic stab folks. Not sure if the patent is still being challenged or not. GyroGale are air powered. Early versions were tricky to get set-up and keep adjusted correctly, not sure if current models are more reliable or not.
Typically solid-state accelerometers are used to detect rolling motion very early and allow high fin deflection quite quickly. Hence active fin stab's are very effective. Early models used gyro's instead of chips, and are less responsive although still quite good. Conversion from gyro to chip versions is relatively expensive - typically 75% or so of a new 'black box' system.
For my Naiad's, service of seals is scheduled at 3 year intervals, at which time inspection for anything else would be made. When researching I found that $850 was expected cost for seal replacement. Initially I was invoiced for over $1300, which I regarded as excessive, although I was partly to blame for a second visit being required. After some emails it was reduced. Next time I will likely get my usual yard to do it rather than the local Naiad guys. They had 2 guys at very high hourly rates. The yard guys rates are cheaper, and i can be the second pair of hands when needed. Mostly the work just needs one guy. The cost is mostly labour.
My Naiad's cost about $30,000 to buy 6 years ago. Maybe that's the aspect that was mis-communicated to Donna. It cost about the same in labour to fit them (retrofitting is always an interesting challenge!) including the hydraulic system to run them.
__________________
Brian
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04-19-2019, 06:32 AM
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#16
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
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Greetings,
Ms. D. We had our Naiad's serviced (seals and bearings) about 10 years ago? to the tune of $4K (I think???). So far so good. Good grief! Don't EVER get old young lady.
__________________
RTF
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04-19-2019, 07:22 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: East Coast
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin (Sold)
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 886
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I have Wesmar's. I'll be servicing them when I haul in May. The Wesmar's differ in that service requires dropping the fin out of the hull to change the seals. There's also a Duralon composite sleeve bearing in the hub that is subject to maintenance replacement. Recommended service interval for seals is 3-5 yrs. It can be a DIY if you have the mechanical skills. The fins are awkward to R&R, so either a jack or two able bodies or a combination of both. Mine are not easy to access inside the boat, I could not get to them if I were a big guy.
Mine are also due for some work on one ram, and probably the oilite sleeve bearings on the hydraulic rams. They're getting some play and that translates to noisy operation. If I had to pay the yard for all the work, I expect it would add about $2K to haul cost. I do most of the work myself, I'll have help to R&R the fins, MUCH easier with an extra set (or two) of hands to guide the shaft into the housing.
I would not be without the stabilizers.
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04-19-2019, 07:40 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: East Coast
Vessel Name: M/V Maerin (Sold)
Vessel Model: Solo 4303
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
I`ve no experience with stabilizers and interested in how they are powered. One boat of the class that interests me has a Gyro Seakeeper which I think was said to run on engine generated while running 12v. What does it run on if anchored? A genset, or turn them off and get rolly?
I`d be concerned about running a genset just to feed the stabilizers. Are some hydraulic and powered off the engine? It`s certainly worth thinking about for anyone interested in stabilizers. Of course some boats run a "small" genset 24/7,a larger one when required, so it may not be an imposition for those boats.
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Most active fin stabilizers are hydraulic powered. Typically, there's a pump that mounts to a PTO on the transmission. The system has a solenoid that unloads the pump when the system is not operating. The fin actuators usually have a hydraulic ram that connects to a splined fitting on the fin shaft. The mount is very beefy, as you might expect given the forces that are involved. Most systems have some sort of pin that can be engaged to lock the fins in center position if the system becomes inoperable for whatever reason.
The effect with active stabilizers is dramatic. In a seaway, all you need to do to demonstrate the effectiveness is to turn them off. Instantly stuff starts moving...
One advantage of the gyro systems is that forward movement isn't needed to be effective. (Not to be confused with gyro sensing in a fin system.) They'll function at anchor (I'm told). The drawback is the need for the generator operation. I'm also told they can take up to 45 min. to spin up to optimum effect, active fins are instantly responsive.
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04-19-2019, 07:47 AM
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#19
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Guru
City: Cary, NC
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,841
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__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
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04-19-2019, 07:54 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
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All of you are great! Thank you so much!! Stabilizers it is! I’ve rolled in the Caribbean before and it wasn’t pleasant. My fault, I was trying to beat some incoming weather.
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