Looking for a delivery Captain

[BuoyCall]

Having been an active delivery captain out of San Francisco and cruised the Florida gulf coast, I can tell you my experience along the Pacific was more or less meaningless in Florida. And vice versa. Not saying deep local knowledge is needed for entire route, but a working knowledge of conditions, weather, customary practices etc should be a expected of a delivery skipper.

There are likely captains with decent experience of moving boats along the Loop, especially from the northern approaches. I would look for special knowledge

My understanding of requirements for a paid delivery skipper is the same as Psneeld's- license is not required by USCG, but may be by insurance company

Good luck.

Peter

30 years of boating experience upto 33', getting captains license next month, need/want experience on larger boats....how does one get that experience to become a delivery captain?

 

[BuoyCall]

I have delivered many boats along this route. I live on the west coast of Florida. I am also very familiar with the Defever 44 from the engine room up. Feel free to Email me at: dockthis@gmail.com

Terry

Do you hire a co-captain/mate to help in deliveries? I'm looking to obtain experience as i obtain my captains license. Retired deputy now yacht insurance agent anticipating getting our own in a couple years. Learned insurance rates would be alot better with capt license and a few years experience before purchase of a 44-48' boat.

 

[mvweebles]

30 years of boating experience upto 33', getting captains license next month, need/want experience on larger boats....how does one get that experience to become a delivery captain?

For me, it was a lot of luck and a different time. I had seatime due to a fair amount of sailboat racing. Also, my girlfriends father lived on an old Owens in Marina del Rey, California. When my girlfriend and I moved to San Francisco, we bought a Uniflte 42 ACMY to liveaboard - would be difficult now due to liveaboard limits and we would be unlikely to get insurance.

When I took a cram-for-exam course for my 100t license, a local dinner-cruise charter company came in last day and made a pitch to hire captains. I had never considered driving but sounded interesting. My original motivation to get my ticket was to teach people close quarter maneuvering because it used to scare the hell out of me and I thought I could help folks get over the same fear I had (which I did, and it worked well).

So I was hired by Compass Rose Yacht Charters that had two charter boats. A 1970-ish vintage 65-foot Pacemaker certified to around 30 passengers; and an 84-foot steel custom ex-dive boat that was certified to over 60 passengers. I bought a cute Captains uniform and drove part time. Compass Rose was later bought by Hornblower as an early acquisition.

Around this time, I met Chuck Hawley, an EVP at West Marine, and a general goodwill ambassador for the brand. We sort of hit it off and I was around when he needed a boat for a day on SF Bay for a MoB demo at a Safety at Sea seminar to prepare for a trans-pacific sailboat race.

Turns out that at the time, West Marine was the feature sponsor to TrawlerFest. Chuck Hawley was big into safety gear (West Marine funded development of the Lifesling), and Chuck wanted to do MoB demos at TrawlerFests. Georgs Kolesnikov, emprissario of TrawlerFest, was fine with whatever his major sponsor wanted. I was a natural to do the demos, and to make it worthwhile to bring me to the venues, I was tasked with two seminar slots: Boat Selection 101: and Docking & Close Quarter Maneuvering. I'd also do dockside demos at lunchtime and afternoons to draw people to the brokerage boats. This later evolved into TrawlerFest University that had two 2-day courses on Tuesday/Wednesday before the TrawlerFest main event - I did Hands-on training aboard a borrowed boat, Bob Smith did a diesel class where he tore-down a Ford Lehman 6-cylinder in a hotel ballroom before wheeling the pallet into thr parking lot to fire it up at the end of day two.

My luck was seemingly endless. Via TrawlerFest, I also met the folks at PAE/Nordhavn. I bugged them to use me for deliveries. They finally tossed me a bone - a guy who for them had been a customer from hell. I guess the guy was so bad that they didn't want to burden a skipper they normally used. With owner and wife, I moved the boat from Dana Point CA to Blaine WA, a 2-week run with a stop in SF. The delivery went without a problem or complaint which surprised the PAE guys since the owner had been nothing but trouble. So I had their attention and suddenly I was delivering a LOT of Nordhavns. The last couple of years I spent over 220 days per year underway. I also really liked long distance/nonstop runs so the West Coast was perfect for me.

So I don't know. In hindsight, everything seems to have been one break after another. Starting with a first boat that was fairly sizeable really helped. And I was nuts about boats so I was pretty clingy in the industry. I was also passionate about teaching close quarter maneuvering because it was so hard for me and wanted to help others.

I was lucky, but sometimes you make your own luck. When opportunity knocked I was close enough to hear it. But bulk was dumb luck. Wish I had a better formula for you

Good luck on getting your ticket. Was a very happy and prideful day for me when I got mine.

Peter
USCG 100T Master 899414 (lapsed)

 

[psneeld]

30 years of boating experience upto 33', getting captains license next month, need/want experience on larger boats....how does one get that experience to become a delivery captain?

Reputation can be a bigger part than just experience.

Somehow you have to get started. My start was as a delivery captain for a boat dealership that mainly involved showing new owners the ropes of their boat and how to drive it. Probably got that job because 5 minutes of going through a boat and being able to explain every system on it convinced the hiring guy.

Th

As the dealership saw me in action, they moved me from the smaller boats up into their biggest.....up to 60-70 footers.

Then they paired me up with more experienced guys who ran the big ones to and from the Florida factory (dealership was in NJ).

After a few runs, new owners wanted me to run their boats from dinner cruises to deliveries up and down the coast.

I moved on to assistance towing after 3 years and gained experience running larger vessels. A lot of customers also saw me dock their large yacht in their slip with just a little 26 foot towboat. I guess they figured if I could do that, putting it in the slip under its own power would be pretty easy.

The real kicker I think is when they watch you treat their boat equal to or better than they do. My other ace in the whole was my USCG background plus all the safety training I had. Many often said that these 2 things gave me the nod over the "guys who were great boat handlers" but lacked a lot of tough decision making long distance deliveries can involve or they had reps as "cowboys" too.

 

[mvweebles]

Psneeld - do you think it's harder to break into delivering on the east coast? My impression was there were a lot more casual boaters who got a ticket in the east than the west. Also seems like there is a lot more competition. When I was active, California sales tax law encouraged moving a new purchase out of state to either Oregon or Mexico. With about 800nms of shoreline, long deliveries were the norm and not many had that type of experience. The east coast seems more benign and approachable (for the record, skinny water scares me more than the Big Water of the Pacific - a LOT more).

Just curious. Seems like it's harder to make it as a full time delivery skipper on the east coast. One guy I know who has been at it for 15+ years delivering mostly new Horizon yachts is lucky to get $400/day.

Peter

PS to OP - common thread in my post and Psneelds is we both started with passion and just did whatever came our way. And a bit of luck. I'll also observe that Psneeld had a differentiator in his relevant prior work. In a way, I did too - having come from Corporate America, I could easily relate to buyers of $1m yachts. I also approached it with a very professional mindset, gave very detailed cost estimates, and stayed in close contact with the owner as their boat became ready to move.

 

[psneeld]

Few delivery guys on the East Coast I came across said they were making a reasonable living at it by 2010.

Too much competition from the newly made captains from the USCG Licensing Schools pumping them out, so had to be underway practically all year. As far as breaking in to it, nah.... seemed like it was pretty common to use someone you knew or a friend did so getting jobs was easy till the word got out how good you were. Either you doubled your work or lost most of it.

As far as either coast being more difficult, would say that depended n the boat...especially speed in the East. Anyone can run between major ports if a schedule was critical and the fuel bill wasn't so much.

I found some guys were very detail oriented about plans and cost estimates and others were less so and just looked you in the eye. Even the rich ones at that point didn't seem to care. There was also the split between having owners aboard for the trip...that could change the arrangement quite a bit.

A lot of the experienced guys demanded paid crew even for the shorter deliveries. Some just brought along family or friends to help but no pay. Some like me wouldn't care about extra hands on some runs. So the possibly "more professional captains" lost out because the delivery costs were so much higher.

 

[mvweebles]

I liked having owners aboard, but I have to admit, it added to the workload. Though the folks I worked with intended to be cruising couples mostly - my sense from my friend who delivers Horizons is the east coast has many owners who use a captain regularly. That's unusual on the West Coast, at least back then when a really big boat was 60-feet. I remember delivering a Nordhav 57 from Dana Point to Ft Lauderdale - what was an enormous boat in Southern California barealy ranked as average as I steamed up the New River and the mega-mansions with mega-yachts behind them.

The owners I dealt with were universally interesting people with great attitudes, but still, having an owner aboard is different than having a paid deck-ape. I knew of one or two delivery skippers who would not allow owners aboard. Not sure why, but from what little I knew of them, they were Captain Bligh types and pretty surly so there probably personality conflicts. Same guys who would constantly say how dangerous the ocean always was - never a moment of peace. They really seemed to play into the theater that if you go outside the Golden Gate (or Pt Conception or Cape Flattery or across the Columbia bar), you were performing a death-defying act rivaling the Flying Walenda's crossing between skyscrapers.

My best pick-up crew were newbies I met at TrawlerFests. One guy - a retired deputy from Sonoma County, was a super good crew. He and his wife went on to purchase one of the early Diesel Ducks from Seahorse. Conversely, my worst crew was a South African who was halfway through his second circumnavigation aboard an Ingrid Ketch he'd built 15-years prior. His idea of standing watch was snoring quietly. Slow boats on a big ocean teach habits that do not translate to coastal cruising.

I miss delivering boats, but I am no longer qualified to do it (and I mean more than just having let my ticket lapse). I used to think the East Coast would be a breeze compared to the West Coast with long passages between ports. I don't think that anymore - I was naive and arrogant. The Pacific has bigger average water, but it's consistent and predictable. And options are few so you have to plan accordingly. The areas of Coastal Florida I've boated really require a LOT of attention - I really under estimated the hazards, primarily due to skinny water. I certainly would look for an experienced skipper in these waters vs just someone with a ticket. I think the last qualification I can think of is experience as a skipper (vs owner or crew). When it's your job and responsibility to delivery property and crew safely, when you have a professional responsibility, it really changes your attitude.

Peter

 

[Portage_Bay]

To the OP,

psneeld makes some valid points even for west coast where I've run deliveries. I am a mostly retired professional first issue on my ticket in 1974. As I moved into retirement I wanted to keep my hand in the biz, branch out into newer work but not work full time. I decided to give deliveries a go. Too often I ended up taking jobs where the owner balked at $600 / day. I took some at $400 / day just to get the job. That was the total for my and my crew's wages. If a delivery was challenging enough that I wanted professional crew that meant I worked for peanuts. If I wanted to make OK but not great wages I took unlicensed inexperienced boaters as crew. Which meant I was on duty damned near 24 hrs. In the end after 6 seasons I decided not to continue that line of work. The risk / reward ratio is way out of balance. I don't want to compete price wise with all the younger captains with new licenses looking to make a name for themselves. When I work on the water anymore it's relief work for my ex employer. I sail as mate leaving all the stressful decisions to the captain.

Both psneeld and mvweebles describe very well how they got started. A bit of luck but make the most of what luck comes your way. Were I in your shoes I'd walk the docks, talk to boaters, talk to brokers. Find out who the well respected experienced delivery captains are in your area. Offer yourself as free or low pay crew and build skills and a reputation. Maybe look online. A casual search of "Yacht delivery jobs" turns up some links that may be worth looking into.

It can be very demanding yet rewarding work. Make no mistake, it will be work, not pleasure cruising. One of the key aspects and mvweebles describes it is managing your clients.

Few delivery guys on the East Coast I came across said they were making a reasonable living at it by 2010.

Too much competition from the newly made captains from the USCG Licensing Schools pumping them out, so had to be underway practically all year.

 

[psneeld]

My solution for when experienced owners were aboard, I wrote the contract for my position was as " navigator". I specifically wrote in the "owner" had full responsibility
for the safety of the vessel and crew..

I never worried about survival and if I had, I figured at that point, the guy would be smart enough to listen to me or I could figure something out to save me and anyone who would listen to me.

I figured I could talk my way out of not following a bad skippers commands than talk my way out of a bad situation where a rich guy with good lawyers could nail me to a plank.

 

[Hippocampus]

“am looking to get my captains license to lower my insurance premium and two, maybe deliver a boat now and then. How much experience did you myster before delivering your first boat?”
Have gone through multiple boats and multiple insurance companies. Have repetitively asked exactly this question. “Will my maintaining a active captain’s ticket have any impact on my insurance premium. No insurance company has ever said it would. It’s a PIA to renew your license. It’s not just the issue of getting it. Especially true if you’re traveling and cruising. Been repetitively told as owner/operator they’re interested in YOUR experience and claim history. This applies to the lower levels of licensure that would be appropriate to vessels under 60’. Due to days spent self attested sea days has never been an issue. Neither coastal nor unlimited ocean. Tonnage would be for me at higher levels and I suspect for most here. Surprisingly several insurance companies said I would get a break for the “ocean master “ credential but not for the lower levels of US captain with my experience. Perhaps this is individual so would check with your carrier and get an answer in print from them.
Would also say it seems from my experience universally insurance wants a sailing resume on all crew (paid/unpaid, licensed or not). They seem to care more about documented experience. Pertinent letters of recommendation as support to the submissions seems to help. Here licensure which documents experience is of some benefit.

 

[Hippocampus]

As usual PS has a good point. Have had unpaid captains as crew and once a paid licensed captain I took off the watch schedule when he disregarded instructions by me and our weather router to slow down to avoid serious weather. He was hired when my go to guy cancelled days before departure due to a personal emergency. Otherwise have used unpaid crew to avoid Jones act and expense. BTW discuss with your carrier if there’s any implications from the Jones Act to a proposed passage.

There can be only one captain. If that captain doesn’t learn from his crew he is an idiot. But end of day a boat isn’t a democracy. There is only one captain.

 

[psneeld]

There"s only one captain if they arent trying hard to kill you. At that point, make the decision and live with it. No matter what shoes you are filling.

I also have had my last 5 insurance companies say I am "maxxed" in the experience colum. Not necessarily because of my caprains license, but the fact that my experience was documented well and reviewed and accepted by a regulatory agency. So the actual license isnt as valuable as just the documentation to get it.

As far as renewing while cruising....cruising usually helps in the necessary sea time, and while probably not a big issue while cruising in the US, it could be an issue if out of the country while trying to renew.

 

[Hippocampus]

Was next to impossible to get an exam by a US licensed physician, and a recognized eye exam.

 

[psneeld]

Have to use DOT certified I believe....any place truckers go.

I used to have a former USAF flight surgeon give them in the back of the classroom while I was teaching captains courses.

Seemed easy to me but I never tried "just a lucesed physician" as I believe they have to be on a certified list. Lots on the internet.

 

[Hippocampus]

You’re right I misspoke in the language. Did exams for pilots but at the request of the DOT physician. I spoke with my pcp(primary care physician who is DOT) he said he thought he might be able to certify if he had a more recent exam in hand. He wouldn’t attempt that with a foreign physician. I didn’t pursue it as it had no impact on premium.

 

[psneeld]

Yes, I believe you have to use the USCG med form and there are strict guidelines on filling it out. But again there are lots of practicing docs that do them a lot.

Not sure I would use a few as a real doc, but the forms were accepted without question.

 

[mvweebles]

My solution for when experienced owners were aboard, I wrote the contract for my position was as " navigator". I specifically wrote in the "owner" had full responsibility for the safety of the vessel and crew..

That never occured to me. I always went the other direction - the owners were crew, it was my boat portal to portal. I know the reality of it, but no one ever balked. But I can see your point.

I don't know what professional crew might be for this type of work. I had very experienced crew, and I had moderately experienced crew. They were all paid $125/day - even the ones who would have paid me for the experience. Just made things clearer that it wasn't a joy ride.

To the OP who started this thread-direction on getting their ticket: In my experience, delivery skippers view "Need crew? Trying to build sea-time so I can deliver boats" as a bit of a threat. For some reason, delivery skippers tend to be loners and don't socialize with other skippers. Might be different in other parts of the country.

Peter

 

[Portage_Bay]

I don't know what professional crew might be for this type of work.

If you're referring to my post #38 I'll define professional. It does not necessarily mean licensed, nor does it mean having experience as paid delivery crew. Though that is usually what I got when I listed my requirments. For demanding deliveries, read south bound PNW to La Paz in November. I wanted crew I could trust to make the right decisions which may have been to call me to the bridge to sort it out. Crew I could trust in an emergency which means some significant level of training. Crew capable of getting the boat to safe harbor if something happened to me.

I had very experienced crew, and I had moderately experienced crew. They were all paid $125/day - even the ones who would have paid me for the experience. Just made things clearer that it wasn't a joy ride.

Agree on paying all aboard. But $125 / day today is not going to get much. Depending upon whether it's a 3 watch or 2 watch rotation that works out to minimum wage or below.

 

[Hippocampus]

Disagree with
Crew I could trust in an emergency which means some significant level of training

My repetitive experience through the years is not infrequently there’s a significant discrepancy between training and behavior during passage. Unfortunately to my mind nothing beats experience and the judgement and ingenuity it teaches. Knowledge and training maybe a close second but all to often the judgment to know what’s important and what is not so much maybe lacking. Or the problem solving ability to jury rig to be able to safely complete a voyage. Even “keep calm sail on” comes from understanding it allows you to function effectively. That comes from experience. Training may get you part of the way there but not all the way.
I’ve have crew submit ASA course completions as part of their applications. Like a having a 6 pack pretty much ignored it. Rather wanted to know about their experience and skill set. This is not to say training isn’t a good thing. Especially things like safety at sea, wilderness medicine courses, Diesel engine courses and the like. One of the best crew I ever had was the captain of a fire boat in New York harbor. Trained up the arse but extremely experienced. He never did blue water but I knew he’d be great at it and he was.

 

[psneeld]

Paid crew are like pro atheletes.

Some are overpaid from day 1, some grow into a franchise.

A good captain only needs robots but a weak one better have superstars.

As far as pay, some are in it for love and some for the money. Benefits along the way can be good, making up for low pay. Owners aboard usually guaranteed better meals and a good happy hour.

 

[Grahambda]

Quick update.. the Captain Randy (Register) and his deckhand Jack, have been trucking along, they are now in the Gulf and heading along the coast line making their way to Tarpon Springs, should arrive by this weekend. They had a hold up in the lower river which was closed for 3 days for emergency dredging, otherwise made good time. Our DeFever 44 with twin Leemans averaged 2MPG, running 10 hours a day, oil burn was minimal. A few nights on the hook but mainly marinas on the way down. Yes we added Randy and Jack to our insurance and had to provide resumes and license carts. So fingers crossed if all goes well,she will be on the hard soon and the “fun” begins working on upgrades to get her ready for Island cruising.

 

[Portage_Bay]

This has been an interesting discussion. I am in agreement that experience along with native aptitude regarding judgement and problem solving are critically important. Combined with good training, not the typical cram for the exam 100 ton course, and you may have found the ideal crew candidate. Personality needs to be considered as well. No one needs a blister on the crew.

If it were possible I would edit my statement up thread

If a delivery was challenging enough that I wanted professional crew that meant I worked for peanuts

to

experienced, competent and proven

The point I was making there was that if a crew member is not 100% up to the job of standing watch unassisted then I got very little rest. And at the rates owners are willing to pay if I hired better crew I didn't earn much. Further down thread I stated I need confidence in their ability to handle emergencies. I don't have the time or resources on a delivery to teach fire fighting, emergency medical response, damage control or how to handle challenging navigation. To be honest the inexperienced mariner is best taught those skill under good a good trainer. I do need a crew candidate to posses at least basic knowledge in those areas.

That brings me to where is a delivery captain to start when screening crew? Particularly a delivery cap who has not yet built the bushiness to the point of having proven regulars to call upon? I started with professionals I have worked with who I know and trust or experience boating friends I trust. When they were not available or willing then I moved on to the unknown individuals. For that group I started with an interview and some of those key questions are what training have you had? How long ago? Where did you take your training? What certifications if any do you have? From there I move into questions about experience.

Being a professional simply means getting paid to do the work. However it implies the experience to get the job in the first place and the qualities to keep the job. No guarantee. Certainly no guarantee of fitness for the delivery

Training if well done gives the mariner a good skill set. If well done is key, I've attended some horrific training doing more harm than good to the uninitiated.

I have had trained professional aboard who were the finest mariners. Most were more than good enough. I also had a few that would never be welcome under my command again. Ever.

I have had crew with no professional certificates or training who were outstanding. I had 100% confidence in their abilities as long as I kept the limitations of their knowledge in mind. I've also had crew with no certificates or training who quite honestly scared the willies out of me. I got no rest when they were on duty.

If all here who have participated in the meatier parts of this discussion could meet face to face and discuss what makes a good delivery crew member I think we'd find there is more agreement than disagreement. But online discussion does not lend itself to finding commonality. It tends to bring up differences and objections.

 

[psneeld]

I think the universal commonality is "do you trust this person with your life?".

All qualufications, experience and trust can go out the window in a heartbeat for many reasons...the steady eddies you really trust are worth their weight in gold.

 

[fgarriso]

Graham,

First of all, I am NOT applying for the trip.

Be sure to check license, medical cards, and several references for both master and crew.

The going rate is actual running hours and/or repair time plus all expenses.

 

[Hippocampus]

Excellent posts upstream from providers. As a consumer have taken to ask for what work they’ve done in the last one to two years and contact information. Unfortunately people may mislead you. I more want to hear about difficulties than cherry picked references. Of course I ask for those as well. I want to know how busy they are and on what passages. I may still be mislead but if i see long hiatuses that can’t be explained to my satisfaction a red flag goes up. Sure spring and fall tend to be busy seasons but a break in those times suggests they may not be telling me about a job that went south. For non paid crew I pay ALL expenses including their fees entering and exiting countries but rarely flights. For paid discuss in advance but usual flights are included. Activities off the boat such as drinking sessions are on them unless I decide otherwise. (Commonly take everyone out to celebrate after a good voyage). Commonly will give a bonus to paid crew if I’m satisfied with their work. Very important for crew to be happy with you (both paid and unpaid). Then you can develop a crew list and have some expectation they will sign on again when you need them. I’ve become good friends with both professional +/unpaid crew and stay in touch even in the absence of need.

 

[Russ.]

Sounds like we are all hoping that the OP will need a captain and 75 mates.

 

[LaOttoboater]

I may be available to help Mate. Please let me know.
Paul