Longterm Cruisers: What do you spend???

[mvweebles]

On the back of several threads asking about impact of rising fuel costs: For longterm cruisers/liveaboards, what are your average monthly costs over a sustained period? A guy on CruisersForum with a 41-foot Hunter HERE has been cruising Florida/Bahamas for almost 5-years and posts his total costs. He is not a beans/rice cruiser - splits time between marinas and anchor-out, goes out to eat, travels inland, etc. For him, fuel/propane is around 3% of his ~$3250/mo average.

Is it fair to generalize that since sailboats operate under power about 50% of the time, that a powerboat at displacement speed would be 2x the fuel expense? Maybe 6%-7% of total costs? With fuel increase, maybe double that to 12%-13% of total costs?

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Is it fair to generalize that since sailboats operate under power about 50% of the time, that a powerboat at displacement speed would be 2x the fuel expense? Maybe 6%-7% of total costs? With fuel increase, maybe double that to 12%-13% of total costs?

I'd figure triple the fuel use, as even relatively efficient powerboats are typically less efficient than a sailboat motoring around.


I also have a really hard time considering food, etc. as a "boat" cost. You'd be spending money on that without the boat as well, so unless the boat makes that cost higher, I'd exclude it. Basically look just at the costs that are there or increased due to the boat, not total cost of living.

 

[mvweebles]

I'd figure triple the fuel use, as even relatively efficient powerboats are typically less efficient than a sailboat motoring around.

I actually think sailboat under power is less efficient. They often have folding props that are not optimized for powering. At displacement speeds, likely doesn't make a big difference.

Separately, wondering what many people budget. For us, $3500-$4000 per month over the long haul seems about right. We live a modest but not austere lifestyle - enjoy happy hours, travel to museums and activities, etc. A good friend with a $1.5m glitzy powercat would consider that slumming - his bar tab probably rivals that budget.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

I actually think sailboat under power is less efficient. They often have folding props that are not optimized for powering. At displacement speeds, likely doesn't make a big difference.

The hull shape is generally more slippery at low speeds unless you're comparing to the most efficient of trawlers (like your Willard). For a 40 foot sailboat, 5 - 6+ mpg while motoring is not uncommon. Many 40 foot trawlers won't achieve better than half that unless going much slower than a knot below hull speed.

 

[jungpeter]

I also have a really hard time considering food, etc. as a "boat" cost. You'd be spending money on that without the boat as well, so unless the boat makes that cost higher, I'd exclude it. Basically look just at the costs that are there or increased due to the boat, not total cost of living.

Yeah, I second these thoughts. The cost of boating is tangentially related to location, and has nothing to do with the cost of food, for instance. What the cost of boating-related items in the Bahamas and Florida has absolutely nothing to do with what I pay here in the PNW. So the CruiserForum guy's absolute expenses are meaningless.

But in general his percentages are somewhat meaningful. In particular, it indicates the well-known paradigm that the cost of fuel is lost in the noise for the vast majority of us recreational boaters.

To survive multiple decades of operation of powerboats (and sailboats before that), I've done my due diligence in estimating ALL the costs of ownership (including the cost of money, salvage value of my boat, fuel, moorage, etc.). Then, I've examined my disposable income (obviously a personal and highly individualized amount), adjusted my boating choices accordingly, and had at it.

So mvweebles, with all due respect, what is the relevance to your original question? To think there are universal life's lessons and conclusions to be drawn from anecdotal information posted by some guy hanging around the Bahamas (a sample size of one) is fanciful.

Regards,

Pete

ps-met a guy on the fuel dock in San Diego about 30 years ago. His sportfisher had multiple fuel barrels in the cockpit, and was obviously returning from Cabo. I asked him how the fishing was, and he answered "...great. I've gotten the cost of tuna down to $2200 a pound!" And he was loving life. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[hollywood8118]

MVWEEBELS


Thank you for posting the information. I personally feel ( unlike someone else) that it is totally relevant. It is information, albeit one persons carefully plotted out expenses that can serve as an example of what it costs to cruise Florida and the Bahamas for an extended time period. So often this question is asked and this is actual information compiled over a period of time. I do feel the fuel costs will be around 3X for a typical displacement trawler, at a minimum.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[diver dave]

We just returned from 7 or 8 weeks out in the islands. Yep, sailed about half the possible transits, and that is in the middle of "winter". Which did include 2 gales...
1120 nm trip, 150 gallons diesel total for both motors (180 hrs). Food was high, even fresh veggies ($5 for two tomatoes, beef out of site, chicken/pork not too bad, local bread $5), and that's a local market, not yachtty market. OTOH, two cleaned conch at $3. Made it out as fuel was going up. Port Canaveral was higher $/g than even the high end marinas east. Soon to change tho.

 

[O C Diver]

Sorry, his fuel number is totally irrelevant without knowing how many miles he cruised in an average month. Fuel is one of my higher costs inspite of averaging over 3.5 MPG. I average over 5,000 miles per year. It will certainly be my highest single expense this year.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

Sorry, his fuel number is totally irrelevant without knowing how many miles he cruised in an average month. Fuel is one of my higher costs inspite of averaging over 3.5 MPG. I average over 5,000 miles per year. It will certainly be my highest single expense this year.

Ted

That's exactly it. If you're covering a significant distance relative to your time spent cruising (and not just moving a few miles once a week), fuel is significant. And in that situation, fuel is also the expense you have the least ability to reduce (you can choose cheaper dockage, anchor out more, etc. but you can only slow down and reduce fuel burn so much).

 

[mvweebles]

Yeah, I second these thoughts. The cost of boating is tangentially related to location, and has nothing to do with the cost of food, for instance. What the cost of boating-related items in the Bahamas and Florida has absolutely nothing to do with what I pay here in the PNW. So the CruiserForum guy's absolute expenses are meaningless.

But in general his percentages are somewhat meaningful. In particular, it indicates the well-known paradigm that the cost of fuel is lost in the noise for the vast majority of us recreational boaters.

To survive multiple decades of operation of powerboats (and sailboats before that), I've done my due diligence in estimating ALL the costs of ownership (including the cost of money, salvage value of my boat, fuel, moorage, etc.). Then, I've examined my disposable income (obviously a personal and highly individualized amount), adjusted my boating choices accordingly, and had at it.

So mvweebles, with all due respect, what is the relevance to your original question? To think there are universal life's lessons and conclusions to be drawn from anecdotal information posted by some guy hanging around the Bahamas (a sample size of one) is fanciful.

Regards,

Pete

ps-met a guy on the fuel dock in San Diego about 30 years ago. His sportfisher had multiple fuel barrels in the cockpit, and was obviously returning from Cabo. I asked him how the fishing was, and he answered "...great. I've gotten the cost of tuna down to $2200 a pound!" And he was loving life. Whatever floats your boat.

Especially amongst the sail-cruiser crowd, estimating cruising costs falls into one of two camps: #1 - "It depends" or some flavor of there are too many variables so any answer would be meaningless. #2 is some flavor of super-cheap if you do it right (the beans/rice crowd). With due respect back to jungpeter, the response falls into bucket #1.

From my perspective, it's much easier to start with some base information such as the spreadsheet from the CruiserForum-wonk I posted, then adjust for your type of cruising, which is fairly easy to estimate. Comparing living aboard a boat between two locations - even disparate ones - has more similarities than, say, comparing living ashore to living on a boat.

Peter

 

[RCook]

We did 4,300 nm this year, averaging 3.8 nmpg. Fuel cost $3,600 - second highest expense after moorage.

 

[BandB]

Sorry, his fuel number is totally irrelevant without knowing how many miles he cruised in an average month. Fuel is one of my higher costs inspite of averaging over 3.5 MPG. I average over 5,000 miles per year. It will certainly be my highest single expense this year.

Ted

Wifey B: And we average over 15000 and don't average 3.5 MPG. You probably cruise more hours than we do, but we do so faster.

While I think the CF dude's numbers are interesting and I do applaud his diligence and that he doesn't cheat or make excuses so his numbers are trustworthy. I think his numbers and methods are useful to some as a starting place but now I'm going to sound like hubby as he's taught me. By having someone else do your budget rather than doing it yourself, you lose one of the greatest values of it. Developing the numbers, knowing how you came up with them, then being able to track where you were on target and where off are the real keys.

Need to know the context of CF Dude too as his was a realistic response to many on CF who talk about $500 a month and $1000 a month. The traveling the world on a dollar a day crowd.

 

[socalrider]

I actually think sailboat under power is less efficient. They often have folding props that are not optimized for powering. At displacement speeds, likely doesn't make a big difference.

While I imagine this is the case for a sailboat-like FD hull with a sailboat-like diesel engine, I've found my SD 41' trawler w/ twins uses a good amount more fuel in practice than my 40.5' sailboat. 4gph vs .75gph roughly, even with a 2-blade folding prop.

Granted I cruise at 8.5kts with the trawler and 6.5kts with the sailboat... but in practice I think we probably burn 4x the fuel at a minimum versus a sailboat, and even more if you give credit for using the sails. So I do think it makes a more material impact for powerboats.

Our options for reducing burn are more limited, too. I doubt I could get much better than 2-3nmpg even reducing speed, whereas on my sailboat I could do better by sailing more, motorsailing, or reducing speed.

 

[mvweebles]

Sorry, his fuel number is totally irrelevant without knowing how many miles he cruised in an average month. Fuel is one of my higher costs inspite of averaging over 3.5 MPG. I average over 5,000 miles per year. It will certainly be my highest single expense this year.

Ted

FUel number is irrelevant, but the overall model isn't. For example, if you take the same layout and assume 5000 nms @ 3 nm/gal at $4.50/gal, average fuel cost goes to $625/mo, average total cost goes to $3772/mo. Fuel is 17% of the total cost.

In my work, I do a lot of speculative business cases - first cut of go/no-go decisions for large projects. Interestingly, when I was a management consultant, the bulk of my work was because I would build an assumption-based model that gave enough information to make an informed decision. Any given line-item could be off - perhaps by a lot, but they almost always compensated. One was high, one was low, so the end result was remarkably accurate.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

View attachment 126637

I don't have a current budget just yet. Spending more effort just now riding herd on cleaning, repairing, replacing, and upgrading... a neglected boat. As it's turning out, with some luck, I'll hold our going-in costs down to under $100K. (Gak!)

When I DO have a current operating budget, it doesn't include Food/Living, most forms of insurance (except boat insurance) or Medical. I consider those to be costs I'd incur whether I boat or not.

I do know our boat insurance increased by about 5x over the previous boat, almost 95% of that due to buying a dead boat in Florida during the hurricane season. I also know that our slip fees increase, partly because we moved to a higher priced marina and partly because the boat is bigger.

I also know that our "get out of Dodge" (Florida) fuel bill was about 3x higher than a trip from Ft. Myers would have normally cost us. Almost entirely due to that pesky hurricane threat, thunderstorm threat (actual reality, several times)... and especially due to my Admiral's anxiety over all that stuff. IOW, we beat feet, no stopping to smell a rose or some coffee or whatever... and that's a whole different float plan compared to our more typical leisurely "trawler speed" meanderings up and down the coast.

-Chris

 

[O C Diver]

FUel number is irrelevant, but the overall model isn't. For example, if you take the same layout and assume 5000 nms @ 3 nm/gal at $4.50/gal, average fuel cost goes to $625/mo, average total cost goes to $3772/mo. Fuel is 17% of the total cost.

In my work, I do a lot of speculative business cases - first cut of go/no-go decisions for large projects. Interestingly, when I was a management consultant, the bulk of my work was because I would build an assumption-based model that gave enough information to make an informed decision. Any given line-item could be off - perhaps by a lot, but they almost always compensated. One was high, one was low, so the end result was remarkably accurate.

Peter

Sorry, the overall model is garbage. Without explanations, the numbers are meaningless garbage.

The form shows insurance / medical. Is this boat insurance or health insurance? Does he have health insurance or if retired, supplemental health insurance? Useless without contextual information.

Maintenance and upgrades? How is anyone supposed to understand if the guy does any maintenance or spent $15,000 on new electronics?

While this may have made sense to the cruiser, it's meaningless gibberish to anyone looking for factual cruising costs.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

Sorry, the overall model is garbage. Without explanations, the numbers are meaningless garbage.



The form shows insurance / medical. Is this boat insurance or health insurance? Does he have health insurance or if retired, supplemental health insurance? Useless without contextual information.



Maintenance and upgrades? How is anyone supposed to understand if the guy does any maintenance or spent $15,000 on new electronics?



While this may have made sense to the cruiser, it's meaningless gibberish to anyone looking for factual cruising costs.



Ted

In all fairness, this is month 57. The OP on CF posts every month with those explanations. My only point was that over the long haul, the costs become fairly predictable and fuel is not as big as expected.

 

[DBL]

Thank you

Thanks for your post that started this thread. This gives me another perspective.

Cheers!

 

[High Wire]

At $5 per gal it’s only about $20-30 more per travel day. Not enough to change travel plans, for us anyway.

 

[Hippocampus]

That guy was 2 slips over from me when we used cove haven barrington RI for a summer. Ran into him again getting ready for passage in Bluewater Hampton . He’s a great guy but I don’t think typical of the average cruiser (if there such a thing). He has land based family along his way. Last I knew was still working. Has school age kids. To my last knowledge doesn’t do passages having fun wandering up/down US east coast. So his transportation costs are different as is food. He changes locale less frequently then many which may impact on maintenance and fuel.

Problem is with any of these expense breakdowns is:
Doing what?
Doing it where?
On what boat?

Outfitting your boat for blue water passage can double that cost.
You just about always anchor in the leewards so slip fees are way less. Perhaps a tenth of someone primarily using slips on the US east coast.
A bunch of kids is expensive.
And so on.

Think all you can say about these expense sheets is he’s done a great job delineating his costs. They probably aren’t yours nor will be if you go full time cruising.
Think everyone is different and cruises differently. Got friendly with about 12-15 owners of sister ships to my outbound. About 6-8 were doing the same as us. Caribbean for winter. Mid Atlantic to New England for hurricane season. Same boat. Same cruising grounds. Have good reason to believe for some annual cost was twice that of others.

 

[mvweebles]

This is a carbon copy of CF. One person puts up what they spend, and ask what others spend. Effort is to share information and inform. Provide a centerline on a highway, perhaps some guardrails.

In response there are dozens of responses kicking sand in the face of the original post but providing zero substantive input except as naysayers.

No surprise. This is the internet afterall.

Peter

 

[BandB]

This is a carbon copy of CF. One person puts up what they spend, and ask what others spend. Effort is to share information and inform. Provide a centerline on a highway, perhaps some guardrails.

In response there are dozens of responses kicking sand in the face of the original post but providing zero substantive input except as naysayers.

No surprise. This is the internet afterall.

Peter

Then the OP whines because everyone isn't impressed with their genius. I could post our numbers but it would be totally irrelevant and useless to everyone here. I accept the CF numbers as his true reflection, but then that doesn't give me a clue as to what boater B or C or D or E will spend. Without knowing more about boating habits and location and specific boat, the value is limited. That doesn't mean it has no value, just limited in how one can use it and if one assumes all the numbers in your OP will be theirs, then that could be very dangerous.

Yes, a post like this one leads to disagreement. That is actually it's value, to get conversation started. It has zero value in predicting what anyone else will spend.

 

[socalrider]

I for one am happy to see other people's numbers; I think it's a service to the community.

It's like asking, "how much does a boat cost":

The "correct" answer is "it depends".

The useful answer is "it depends, but my 40 footer cost $100k a few years ago, etc. etc. etc."

 

[mvweebles]

Then the OP whines because everyone isn't impressed with their genius. I could post our numbers but it would be totally irrelevant and useless to everyone here. I accept the CF numbers as his true reflection, but then that doesn't give me a clue as to what boater B or C or D or E will spend. Without knowing more about boating habits and location and specific boat, the value is limited. That doesn't mean it has no value, just limited in how one can use it and if one assumes all the numbers in your OP will be theirs, then that could be very dangerous.

Yes, a post like this one leads to disagreement. That is actually it's value, to get conversation started. It has zero value in predicting what anyone else will spend.

You guys are definitely an outlier, so yea, I agree - your costs would not be useful. But there are many people who wonder what they should budget, whether their retirement will cover the costs, how fuel figures into the equation. For me, when I came across the CF guy and read his numbers, I realized he was living roughly what I anticipated living - not too frugal, but comfortable. $40k/year longterm would be roughly right. I think that's a range that many people are within 30%, plus/minus.

To say it has zero value is deflection. The build-up has line-item detail (which I truncated a bit), categories that folks may have never considered, and yes, you can get an idea of what the lifestyle the CF guy leads might be - it is roughly akin to what many folks in the middle-income retirement segment might be able to afford. A granular accounting is useful, at least to me. I can look and adjust for my use (such as fuel). But in the end, I feel like $40k/year is a decent budgetary number until I have actual data. That's far from zero value.

I am amazed at the number of people who chime in without input except a 'hurumph - useless information.' Many peole come to TF with questions like these.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

I am amazed at the number of people who chime in without input except a 'hurumph - useless information.' Many peole come to TF with questions like these.

Peter

Don't know if you're referring to me.
I explained why I thought the numbers offered little value. As to offering my numbers, they would probably be as misleading as yours.

I'm obsessive compulsive on maintenance and upgrading. So maintenance costs would appear very high. For my trawler boat size, my fuel consumption is very good. I'm probably in the top 5% of miles traveled each year. So depending on how you factor those two things, it would skew the numbers. I travel solo most of the time, so food costs would be disproportionately low for a 45' boat.

I see this graphed as a modest bell curve. Without maybe 100 cruisers, it's very difficult to know where any one cruiser's numbers fall. Are they near the average or an outlier.

Ted

 

[BandB]

You guys are definitely an outlier, so yea, I agree - your costs would not be useful. But there are many people who wonder what they should budget, whether their retirement will cover the costs, how fuel figures into the equation. For me, when I came across the CF guy and read his numbers, I realized he was living roughly what I anticipated living - not too frugal, but comfortable. $40k/year longterm would be roughly right. I think that's a range that many people are within 30%, plus/minus.

To say it has zero value is deflection. The build-up has line-item detail (which I truncated a bit), categories that folks may have never considered, and yes, you can get an idea of what the lifestyle the CF guy leads might be - it is roughly akin to what many folks in the middle-income retirement segment might be able to afford. A granular accounting is useful, at least to me. I can look and adjust for my use (such as fuel). But in the end, I feel like $40k/year is a decent budgetary number until I have actual data. That's far from zero value.

I am amazed at the number of people who chime in without input except a 'hurumph - useless information.' Many peole come to TF with questions like these.

Peter

Is $40k a decent budgetary number? I can't agree with that. I don't know the differences between your plans and the CF budgeter. I do agree that to look at his full spreadsheets and all the lines in them is of value. I often have posted lists of items to consider and recommend this link, not because the values are meaningful to most TF'ers, but because you break down the detail and you see line items you might otherwise fail to consider.

https://luxyachts.com/yacht-cost-calculator

Just click on "expand all" on the Summary of Expenses and really think about it. I see people jump in and two years later shocked at the cost of bottom painting. I see people who fail to anticipate their dinghy will have to be replaced. I see people who need internet connectivity and are shocked at the cost.

I use to hear 10% and yet people couldn't even agree on 10% of what? Current value? New Price?

What about depreciation? It's relevant to many.

What happens in year 7 when you need to rebuild an engine or replace a generator?

I've seen so many shocked when they needed to upgrade electronics. Seemingly small things like cruising permits for each country sure can add up. In South Florida we get so many who are shocked at everything from the cost of marinas to the need for divers 12 times a year.

I don't know if you'll be within 30% of $40k. However, I'd strongly advise you to do real line item budgeting before assuming that. Really look at your own situation.

I never said it had no value, just not to overvalue his numbers. For those use to budgeting, this shouldn't be a new experience, but I'm amazed at how many people don't do detailed personal budgets. We always have, but we've missed some substantially. Boat budgeting, I was conservative and have come well under in actual expenditures.

A good practice in budgeting is to arrive at the numbers from both directions, top down and bottom up. Now that you have a top down number of $40k plus or minus 30%, I'd encourage you or any others to start detailing every line. Get into the details of your plans. What about a couple that cruises all year but flies home and spends time with family during December. What does it cost to get someone to watch their boat while done? What does the trip home, now that they sold their home, cost?

The items you budget, you'll come close enough. However, one key is the items you overlook budgeting. I knew a couple that was fine when they cruised alone, but they invited family and friends to join them. They held values that said, "when you visit me, you don't pay.....anything". So, brother and his family, then old work friend, then son and his friend. Restaurants every night with company and entertainment in some places. Suddenly meals were double what they'd planned.

The point is I have no idea what you or anyone will spend. I can tell you the items to consider though. However, I don't want to see fuel $200 per month or $2400 a year. I want to see miles and hours plus generator hours and I want to see estimated costs per gallon based on cruising grounds and then I don't just have good numbers, but I have the ability to know the variability based on different costs. Right now, that is very important. Last year our fuel costs were up based on Europe, but this year we just changed our projection from $3/gallon to $6/gallon. That's very significant and while the absolute number for us is higher than trawler numbers, I suspect doubling fuel costs will be important to most.

Sorry, no shortcuts to budgeting. I admit that I suffer from a business mindset and reviewing and approving 1000's of department and profit center budgets over the years.

So, again, not saying your post has no value. Not saying the numbers have none. I think the spreadsheet he does is excellent. Just don't make the mistake of overestimating it's appropriateness for you or others.

 

[2savage]

Budgets? Budgets? We don't need no steenking budgets!

A famous General once said "Before you go into battle you must have a plan. And as the battle unfolds, all plans will be useless".

Fuel is my biggest expense. If the price of gas starts to affect my lifestyle I'll just shorten the miles.

Oh, and try telling my wife we can't dine out because we need extra fuel.

 

[Hippocampus]

Peter- think the major determinant of boating expense is your wife or S.O. with you as the second. Believe realistic budgeting for future expense needs you to determine a realistic outline of what you intend to do and what lifestyle you intend to live.

See this go both ways. People spending tens and tens of thousands of dollars playing “what if?” while setting up a boat for a voyaging lifestyle they will never live. But more commonly people retrofitting to create a level of creature comforts in accordance to “happy wife=happy life”.

Previously commented I know sister ships of my prior boat where annual expense of one was double that of another. Here’s a concrete example. Two Outbound 46’s. Built two years apart. Both home ported in Rhode Island for summers and both going to the Caribbean for winter. Owners the same age. Both boats couples with occasional brief visits by guests. Same hull, engine, rig and both double heads, double staterooms. Bones of both the same.

Boat one- crewed by unpaid amateurs on passage. No paid captain ever.
Boat two- Paid captain on passage. He’s an amazing sailor so paid top dollar (~600/d).

Boat one- bought used hydrovane as backup to AP and for use on passage.
Boat two- second AP with infrastructure to run independently of main nav system.

Boat one- Spectra Cape Horn extreme fully manual watermaker
Boat two- fully automated high output watermaker.

Boat one - rare outside wrench or tech used
Boat two- paid captain oversees maintenance. Maintenance done by yards.

Boat one - rare use of marinas. >90% on anchor
Boat two - rare anchoring >90% on paid mooring or in a slip

Boat one- prefers windwards to leewards. Prefers to cook than to go to restaurants. Hates bars and crowds. Enjoys unguided exploring of an island. Rather snorkel than dive.
Boat two- the opposite.

Boat one- will put on a fleece before turning on the hydronic heat. Open a hatch before turning on the AC. Wife hates AC. Will anchor out to catch breeze and have quiet with no AC running. Has one AC unit.
Boat two- tee shirt and shorts 24/7/365. Three ACs running most times. Heat on with any chill.

Boat one- conservative with water use. Jump in water. Fresh for rinse. Conservative use washing dishes etc. Rare genset use. Due to alt.energy needs to line up multiple loads Before turning on the genset (charging everything , vacuuming, water making etc.) to get sufficient loading. Uses a NL which is self maintained.
Boat two- due to less alt. energy and AC use a small Phazor is on daily for hours when not plugged in.

Boat one uses SSB with a fleet one used on occasion. Has no issue using Wi-Fi when available (not for financial then stat only). Will dinghy in to face time family and friends.
Boat two uses a full KVH setup frequently and even satellite TV. No free Wi-Fi they rather stay on the boat to surf and do other stuff.

Both boats were the same from the factory within a couple of years of each other. Both are couples of similar ages. Neither couple is suffering too much. Their sailing program is nearly the same. They’re friends who socialize with each other whenever feasible. But strongly suspect boat two’s budget is twice that of boat one’s.

Peter think more than what boat your on and where you go for annual budget who you are and what you do is a (and perhaps the major) determinant. Believe there’s no fixed costs. Years ago wanted to race and single. To have that freedom even in a rising market with low interest rates bought the boat with cash. Carried only liability and toxic spills otherwise self insured to get that freedom. Although last couple of boats have been cash have also gone loans when ROI was sufficiently higher than interest. Think there’s nothing you can mention that’s the same or even nearly the same expense. Not even fuel. In the above example boat two bought fuel in the BVIs. Boat one shopped fuel and had no issue sailing to a different island to get better price.

 

[mvweebles]

I posted this thread more for others than myself. I've owned my boat for almost 25-years and know her well. I am about to quit work and have few worries. I chose not to tally my costs because I don't have to. Just easier to keep my head in the sand. Boat ownership is not a rational decision. Someone once told me the only time you really need a boat is when the one you're on is sinking and the one next to it isn't.

Hippo - you posed a great example of two essentially identical boats and itineraries, difference being operating parameters chosen by owners. One boat with owner/operator has $X/yr averaged over 3-years, the other is professionally maintained and has a $Y/yr average. That's valuable information, especially to the legions of lurkers on sites like TF - well over half the viewers at any given time appear to be non-members.

What's interesting to me is lately there have been dozens of posts bemoaning fuel costs, how it's their largest or second largest expense. Compared to what? Over a 5-year period of ownership, how many people spend more on fuel than hauling their boat? Or insurance? Or hull buffing? Or any of the myriad of boat expenses that are rarely included in a TCO model? As mentioned above, I deliberately ignore these expenses, but that's a personal decision to preserve sanity.

In the end, TCO of boat ownership is an important question to all newbies, be they new to boating or making a large change or step-up. We all expect Covid-induced sales to hit the resale market when the new owners realize the true cost of ownership. And yet when asked to robustly describe these costs, there is a collective hurumph (not specifically OC Diver ) with dozens of reasons why the question can't be answered. This forum answers difficult questions all the time.

Peter

 

[NEtrawler58]

What I find amusing is that there are some members here who absolutely insist that fuel costs are insignificant and others here that have data that show it's their biggest expense for the boating they do. I think the real answer is "it depends" like many things here and there are no absolutes. The fact that there are multiple active threads discussing the rise in fuel prices must mean that it is concerning to at least some of us, otherwise we would all just laugh and not care about the price.