Lending assistance to other vessels

[keith c]

I know this is slighty off subject but could one or more of the experienced boaters briefly go into the risks and liabilities of a "good samaritan ?

 

[psneeld]

Too bad marine distress cannot be sent like on the amber alert system to devices made for boats.

the DSC system is supposed to work like that on VHF.

 

[psneeld]

I know this is slighty off subject but could one or more of the experienced boaters briefly go into the risks and liabilities of a "good samaritan ?

it depends on your states Good Samaritan laws (protections).

essentially as long as you aren't negligent past your experience/training level, you should be protected by law for liability.

in today's day and age, probably hit or miss on whether you are still drug into court and found liable.

 

[psneeld]

What would be cool is if the uscg emergency broadcasts with the lat lon could be directly inserted into you mfd as a mob waypoint. With the tec of today I'm supersized it not available yet.

For awhile, maybe still, I thought Standard Horizon plotters could do that through DSC.... not sure if the USCG system was compatible.

Tech is there, but is there demand?

 

[rslifkin]

For awhile, maybe still, I thought Standard Horizon plotters could do that through DSC.... not sure if the USCG system was compatible.

Tech is there, but is there demand?

If you've got a VHF with DSC or AIS receiver connected to a modern-ish plotter, as far as I know, any DSC alert with lat/lon info included should be displayed on the plotter.

 

[Fletcher500]

I know this is slighty off subject but could one or more of the experienced boaters briefly go into the risks and liabilities of a "good samaritan ?

This question was posed to a maritime lawyer in the "The Log", a local so-cal boating news paper. Here is the answer:

<<On the water, lawmakers in this country and throughout the world have recognized the unique perils associated with a nautical emergency, and the “custom” of rendering assistance to fellow mariners is an established part of international maritime law.>>

The full article:https://www.thelog.com/news-departm...-to-render-assistance-to-a-distressed-boater/

I believe there are some maritime lawyers on this site who will know more about the subject.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I know this is slighty off subject but could one or more of the experienced boaters briefly go into the risks and liabilities of a "good samaritan ?

In today's litigious environment I want to render as much help as I can while protecting myself. My personal rules are if imminent threat to life for example fire or sinking I will do all I can withing the limits of my skill, abililities, capabilites of my boat and my equipment. For example I pulled a sail boarder out of the water, it was winter he was likely or soon to be hypothermic. I will assist others as I reasonably can. I am not insured to tow, I don't have a towing endorsement. If needed I'll tow to safe harbor then stand by until until qualified assistance arives to take them all they way in. Example a small boat broken down and drifting on the outgoing tide towards the Colubmia River Bar. I towed them to near the east mooring basin, their choice, and stood by as they anchored and awaited a tow into the basin. They weren't happy with my decision because that last few hundred yards was going to be expensive. But at that point they were in no danger.

 

[mvweebles]

The article linked above describes that mariners are obliged to assist where loss is imminent, though without endangering themselves. I didn't realize assistance was required.

I remember once in the Delta (SF). Late in thr afternoon, I came across a ski boat adrift. They flagged me down for a tow. The two young guys in it were pretty drunk and sunburned. There was a marina a half mile away and I offered to tow them there. Nope, they wanted a tow back to their launch ramp 10-miles away. I wished them luck.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

The article linked above describes that mariners are obliged to assist where loss is imminent, though without endangering themselves. I didn't realize assistance was required. Peter

The original post involved a capsized vessel with three people, two in the water and one sitting on top of the vessel. I believe the following excerpt from the noted article makes if fairly clear that it is incumbent upon the vessel in the nearby vicinity to render assistance and get the three people out of the water. It would not endanger the people rendering assistance to toss a floated line to them and pull them over to the swim step and out they come. Yes, there may be conditions where endangerment to the rescuing vessel could be a factor as noted but let's keep it real, most of us are not boating in the North Sea in winter so the majority of the time, it's possible to help.

I am not a maritime lawyer, so I will defer to others who have experience in this field and can shed more light rather than guessing.

<<In the United States, federal law (46 USCS sec. 2304) requires the master of any vessel subject to U.S. jurisdiction to “render assistance to any individual found at sea in danger of being lost,” so long as the assistance can be rendered without endangering the rescuing vessel or individuals on board. This law is a part of an international treaty (the International Convention on Salvage, 1989) which extends the obligation to mariners throughout the world.>>

 

[psneeld]

In my experience, loosely defined assistance required by maritime law is standing by to ensure no one drowns ...no more, no less (for example, pulling them from the water, tossing spare pfds/floating objects, etc.)....at least until relieved by better resources, bigger, better Good Samaritans or SAR resources.

You are not required to approach with intent to put out a fire or try to salvage a sinking vessel, the risk to the inexperienced is too great.

You are not prevented in doing so, but if anything goes wrong and you have no formal background or training, assigning liability to you can increase dramatically.

Remember, the old saying in the USCG is "the difference in getting a heroism medal and a court martial" isn't about the severity of the mission, it's the outcome.

 

[OldDan1943]

A. It is difficult enough to get everyone on the distressed vessel to put on their PFD. If they refuse, tell them you will remain close until they put on their PFDs or help arrives. Dont have enough? Lend them a couple of your PFDs.
B. Nothing to my knowledge requires you to move them to your boat unless it is on fire or sinking. In either case, instruct them to put on their PFD, get into their life raft and and move away from the distressed vessel. Dont have life raft, they enter the water, swim to your boat or grab the floating line you will hand pull them to your swim ladder one at a time. Profanity is permitted.

 

[darkside]

You are not prevented in doing so, but if anything goes wrong and you have no formal background or training, assigning liability to you can increase dramatically.
.

That is a quite appalling state of affairs.
I just couldn't tolerate not helping where help was required.
A friend of ours got swept onto a reef by a French yacht with inadequate anchoring skills in Tobago Cays. The other five NZ and Australian crews in the anchorage all turned up and we had them floating in about half an hour.
None of the other vessels there did a thing. We were latter told probably because of fears of liability. Sorry but I couldn't live with myself not going to assist.
I've done three rescues of drifting unmanned vessels, five tows after various engine failures, one assistance during a piracy attack (from afar), one swimmer in trouble and a windsurfer getting blown out to sea.
I guess I'll keep going till I get sued.

 

[SteveK]

Fact is a grateful rescued person is soon swayed to sue by ambulance chasers (none on TF of course).

Known to sea captains as basically the “Law of the Sea” it set more of a model of moral behavior than actual legal responsibility.

Good article here for Canada.

 

[psneeld]

That is a quite appalling state of affairs.
I just couldn't tolerate not helping where help was required.
A friend of ours got swept onto a reef by a French yacht with inadequate anchoring skills in Tobago Cays. The other five NZ and Australian crews in the anchorage all turned up and we had them floating in about half an hour.
None of the other vessels there did a thing. We were latter told probably because of fears of liability. Sorry but I couldn't live with myself not going to assist.
I've done three rescues of drifting unmanned vessels, five tows after various engine failures, one assistance during a piracy attack (from afar), one swimmer in trouble and a windsurfer getting blown out to sea.
I guess I'll keep going till I get sued.

Unfortunately for some, being sued and bankrupted occurs earlier than later in the game....doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

I have read in more than a few "Samaritan rescues" where a line parted or a cleat pulled, something simple, but it maimed a person for life and the resultant lawsuit even for just medical bills (remember insurance companies will jump in also to recover damages) was catastrophic to the poor Samaritans efforts (ones where the law didn't protect them enough.)

 

[SteveK]

Do not offer a tow line, insist they hand you their line if you plan to tow them.

 

[Benthic2]

...VHF transmission is only line of site and the wattage of transmission does impact. I think the distance is the square root of each antenna height above the water line to send and retrieve. Example, if 2 boats have antennas 9' feet above the water they can talk to each other at 6 miles apart.....

The USCG Rescue 21 System is suposed to be able to pick up a 1 watt transmission, 2 meters above sea level out to 20 miles. It can also calculate a line of bearing to the transmission after just 1 second.

If you hear a mayday and are not sure if you are close enough you can respond on your handheld as their range is pretty limited. If you can make contact with a 6 watt handheld with a 9 inch antenna, you are pretty close.

 

[psneeld]

Do not offer a tow line, insist they hand you their line if you plan to tow them.

That is an urban myth, old wives tail, etc....at least in the US. Wouldn't surprise me though if it is universal in maritime law.

Once you have someone in tow, you have assumed some liability for that other vessel no matter what happens.

Straight from the USCG when I was an assistance tow lucence instructor. Doesn't matter if a pro or amatuer....neither does it matter who supplies or hands the tow line.

 

[rslifkin]

That is an urban myth, old wives tail, etc....at least in the US. Wouldn't surprise me though if it is universal in maritime law.

Once you have someone in tow, you have assumed some liability for that other vessel no matter what happens.

Straight from the USCG when I was an assistance tow lucence instructor. Doesn't matter if a pro or amatuer....neither does it matter who supplies or hands the tow line.

On top of that, if something goes wrong during the tow, I'd expect it to be looked down upon if you took a tow line from the other boat that was inadequate if you had the means to rig a better one. Of course, if they already have one ready to go and it's adequate, by all means use it.

 

[koliver]

There is nothing I can say that will save those of you from the US. In Canada, however we are not hamstrung by the popularly held belief in the US that any lawsuit will bankrupt you. Our system, though based upon similar laws, is very different in its access by the greedy litigant. We give the successful Plaintiff a bit of his legal expenses as part of the award, but the big difference is that the unsuccessful litigant pays all of his own costs, plus the costs of the other side when his claim is shown to have no merit. In extreme cases of meritless claims, the costs against the unsuccessful claimant will fully indemnify the successful defendant.
In the good Samaritan case, in maritime encounters, you are obligated by law to render assistance to the best of your abilities, so do it! You have nothing to fear if you demonstrate that you are trying to the best of your abilities.

 

[Retriever]

I think it's somewhat situational. I wouldn't take someone under tow if there was a commercial or government alternative readily available. In that case I would stand by until more capable help arrived.

But I have, and would again, tow someone when it's the only option. Once we towed a boat over 100nm into Cabo. The Mexican Navy may have eventually picked them up, but we didn't think it was appropriate to just abandon them on the outside of Baja with no plan to get to safety. They were quite appreciative of our help and concerns about liability were pretty far from any of our minds.

I carry 400 feet of 1 inch line for towing.

One of the more bizarre incidents was just a few months ago. We were anchored and out day sailing and found a semi-conscious guy floating with a major head laceration. We dragged him back to the boat, got him patched up, and transported him to an ambulance on shore. Issues of liability didn't enter the decision making; the guy needed help, we were there, and we weren't going to watch him drown waiting for someone with more experience to show up.

 

[Hippocampus]

“The article linked above describes that mariners are obliged to assist where loss is imminent”

Believe this is recognized internationally.


There’s a difference between a mayday and a pan pan. If lives are at risk wouldn’t much worry about liability. Would think about the reverse liability. You held the ability to save a life and failed to act. Wonder how Phil Collins would act?

Up here hypothermia is the real deal. Can’t imagine demanding the young, elderly or in fact anyone to get into the water if there’s any way to avoid it. Think through the myriad ways to do a boat to boat transfer avoiding that risk. Dinghy on a line, raft on a line, even lifesling if there’s no other choice(last). With even modest handling skills unless the seas are angry rafting with adequate fenders. Your not obligated to place yourself or vessel in danger but you are obligated to help both morally and in accordance to international standards.

 

[psneeld]

That's the million dollar question.....

will the law protect you from someone who "claims" that your actions were negligent.

That could very easily come down to your defense (lawyer) and who has the better expert witnesses.

Many, many cases I have read it would be very easy to sway a judge or jury with technical issues to show or disprove negligence.

Once upon a time, I had two top lawyers cursing under their breath trying to get specific points out of me in a deposition...they had the US NAVRULES book opened and asking me questions and every time they thought they had a point, I referred them to a different overriding navigation rule. They gave up and my boss was the only successful defendant in that case.... one where 4 or so other insurance companies didn't even fight, they just settled for millions. I would never trust being protected by any legal team or law when named in a liability case.

Because the law of the sea involves not endangering your own vessel or crew when aiding a vessel in distress, not doing anything but standing by would be hard to find overriding fault with unless you were a professional responder in maritime distress situations.

 

[OldDan1943]

If the other boat is on fire, I'm not getting close. They must come to me.
If they had swim, I can provide hot liquids and a hot shower with towels and blankets.

 

[Fletcher500]

PS,

Many of us on this site have had formal training in various capacities in the military and merchant marine. You spent a long career in the CG helping others, so you obviously know more than many of us. I am still struggling with the legal aspects you are citing regarding one recreational boater helping another, especially when the CG sector in charge was on the VHF and informed of the events during the entire process which I previously cited. NOTE: I am not referring to unnecessary heroics, fighting fires, and saving property. Rather, simply pulling in a few people who are bobbing in the ocean next to a capsized boat 30 miles offshore (not in the harbor with a BoatUS or CG boat 15 mins away), which was the original situation that was posed.

I am sure there are some one off cases out there that can be dredged up about things going south, but in the case I have presented here I see absolutely no other alternative but to help those people. Period. And, I can not see how any court system would find fault with the assisting party, even if one of the people being assisted happened to be injured during the process. The previously cited federal law 46 USCS, Sec 2304 supports my statement.

Regardless of your answer or how others think about this, it will always be an easy decision for me. If there are no other available formal sources of help available for someone who is in the water, especially when offshore, I am rendering assistance.

That’s all I have on the subject, and its a wrap for me.

 

[psneeld]

Of course one is expected to try and get people out of the water, out of a liferaft with SAR resources on the way soon, maybe not so much.

As far as something going south for recovering people in the water as the minimum you are expected to do....lots of boat handlers are not all that proficient and have to be very careful on approach and pickup. Hitting people, with hulls or props can do a lot of damage quick. So even a simple operation can go sideways quick.

I am not telling anyone to NOT do different levels of rescue....but for the average boater with no professional or even more advanced rescue experience/training.... all the law of the sea really expects of joe boater is to pluck people out of the water as safely as they can.

For some here, myself especially...best make dang sure you cross your T's and dot your I's if doing more than picking people out of the water because any decent expert witness can tear you a new one for missing the most simple things in a rescue attempt...and the Good Samaritan laws won't be kind to those with advanced training, skills or experience.

Doesn't mean I won't try...heck as an assistance tower, I like many hung our rear ends out all the time. Sure I worried that things never go as planned, but the more I worried the more I knew I was doing my best. In 35 years as pilot or tower, I would say few rescues ever went as planned, but only a handful went way worse than I hoped...but no major errors thankfully.

One big fear of mine would be first aid...had lots of training, but never really practiced much so I know I forgot most of the basics. Things like CPR have changed several times since all my training. I would be a sitting duck if I rescued someone needing first aid and I screwed something up by accident. I could have been following my training, but would I in a stressful situation hopefully remember the right/current course of action?

 

[Gdavid]

I think a lot of boaters underestimate the difficulty of maneuvering to virtually stopped craft in a seaway. When I fished offshore as a mate on charter boats we occasionally passed bait between boats, the relative motion between two boats in relatively calm ocean swell is eye opening. In this situation we had two able-bodied deckhands in the prime of health and two very experienced captains with maneuverable boats with great visibility doing something as simple as passing a 5 gallon bucket. Advantages you average trawler operator is unlikely to have.

I have and will continue to render assistance to anyone I can and hope others do as well, safely and within their abilities.

 

[AlanT]

During our first Atlantic crossing (2007) 'Cochise' a Swan 46' yacht was dismasted a couple hundred miles ahead of us - about 800 NM WNW of the Azores, Another yacht (a lovely 65' US Flag yacht named 'Belle') with surplus fuel on board was closer, 100NM away but detoured to drop off fuel so that the Swan could make it in to Horta under motor.

https://docslib.org/doc/3794671/dismasted-mid-atlantic-as-seen-from-belle

A day or so earlier we detoured for a day to assist a single-hander who was experiencing rudder problems and believed he needed to go over the side to resolve them. A total of 4 boats independently detoured to assist him, we called off our detour when another yacht confirmed they were on site and able to assist.

Bottom line, it is a big ocean and if you are privileged enough to be in a position to help someone you do so.

2007 Transatlantic Crossing Bermuda to The Azores

N.B Both rescues were facilitated by the most excellent Herb on the SSB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Hilgenberg

~A

 

[AlanT]

I will assist others as I reasonably can. I am not insured to tow, I don't have a towing endorsement. If needed I'll tow to safe harbor then stand by until until qualified assistance arives to take them all they way in.

You should check with your insurer to be certain (Any comment Pau Hana?) however I am pretty sure that no yacht insurance will decline to cover you in the event that you suffer an accident while engaged in an unplanned rescue tow. That is treated completely differently from a boat engaging in the business of towing. I also have always understood that one has an obligation to assist if able to do so.

 

[BruceK]

Before offering a tow, call in the lawyers, at the expense of those in peril. Have an agreement prepared with all possible exclusion of liability in your favor. If those in peril remain alive, have them sign it, notarized of course,after they get independent legal advice. Ignore bleating about unfair negotiating positions. If they won`t sign, leave them to their fate, whatever that may be.And, rest easy that you did your best.

 

[SteveK]

Before offering a tow, call in the lawyers, at the expense of those in peril. Have an agreement prepared with all possible exclusion of liability in your favor. If those in peril remain alive, have them sign it, notarized of course,after they get independent legal advice. Ignore bleating about unfair negotiating positions. If they won`t sign, leave them to their fate, whatever that may be. And, rest easy that you did your best.

But Bruce, as a lawyer you know that you can have that document signed under duress thrown out and proceed with the lawsuit.