Lending assistance to other vessels

[darkside]

Before offering a tow, call in the lawyers, at the expense of those in peril. Have an agreement prepared with all possible exclusion of liability in your favor. If those in peril remain alive, have them sign it, notarized of course,after they get independent legal advice. Ignore bleating about unfair negotiating positions. If they won`t sign, leave them to their fate, whatever that may be.And, rest easy that you did your best.

Hopefully your lawyer is awake, or at least is in the same time zone, has the document already drafted, your internet and printer on board is working, your swim across to get the signature goes well, then you can proceed.
I can see a few problems.
I would just help unless a professional organizations alternative was coming into view over the horizon

 

[OldDan1943]

Before offering a tow, call in the lawyers, at the expense of those in peril. Have an agreement prepared with all possible exclusion of liability in your favor. If those in peril remain alive, have them sign it, notarized of course,after they get independent legal advice. Ignore bleating about unfair negotiating positions. If they won`t sign, leave them to their fate, whatever that may be.And, rest easy that you did your best.

Life used to be so much easier.

 

[OldDan1943]

Unfortunately for some, being sued and bankrupted occurs earlier than later in the game....doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

I have read in more than a few "Samaritan rescues" where a line parted or a cleat pulled, something simple, but it maimed a person for life and the resultant lawsuit even for just medical bills (remember insurance companies will jump in also to recover damages) was catastrophic to the poor Samaritans efforts (ones where the law didn't protect them enough.)

may I suggest a bridle plus a tow rope of good size plus a multi million dollar umbrella insurance policy???

 

[Spinner]

Re broadcasting of marine distress, it does work like an Amber alert, at least in the PNW. The radio sounds the most god-awful sound and then the distress info is displayed or sounded.

 

[Cigatoo]

the DSC system is supposed to work like that on VHF.

Oh it does.
We had a nearby boat press their DSC button (accidently) while doing a MOB drill. They were getting ready for the Bermuda race. It made me crazy trying to silence the alarm. Lat /Lon and other information was displayed on the chart plotter.

 

[psneeld]

Even the assistance tow companies have a liability waiver that you sign before you tow. This was the standard form signed for even membership tows, it was NOT the standard salvage agreement.

For years I never used to get it signed before commencing as often offshore it was stupid to come alongside and damage both vessels on many days.

After awhile the company insisted, at least some of the time (can't remember the triggering reason for at least some tows) so we had a waterproof container made up and tossed it back and forth.

Part of the waiver also contained a section on payment as well as agreeing that they also agreed to arbitration. I don't remember exactly but I think it also mentioned maritime court.

Again I am not debating whether to lend assistance or not, just answering the original and subsequent questions on how well do Good Samaritan protect you (in the USA) and how different levels of experience or expertise affect the situation.

 

[Roger Long]

it depends on your states Good Samaritan laws (protections).

essentially as long as you aren't negligent past your experience/training level, you should be protected by law for liability.

in today's day and age, probably hit or miss on whether you are still drug into court and found liable.

I think the real issue is insurance, not courts. Let's say you give someone a tow off a shoal or other assistance and one of the boats is damaged. If there was no immediate hazard of injury or loss of life, the insurance company may well say, "That was TowBoatUS or SeaTow's job. Your insurance doesn't cover commercial activity so we're not paying." Could be painful if the damage is extensive.

Even if you save lives, the insurance company could say the same thing. Life sometimes calls on us to step up. I no longer offer any assistance beyond standing by or relaying radio messages unless there is a clear immediate treat of injury or death as opposed to just property damage or delay waiting for a licensed and insured commercial outfit to show up.

 

[rslifkin]

I think the real issue is insurance, not courts. Let's say you give someone a tow off a shoal or other assistance and one of the boats is damaged. If there was no immediate hazard of injury or loss of life, the insurance company may well say, "That was TowBoatUS or SeaTow's job. Your insurance doesn't cover commercial activity so we're not paying." Could be painful if the damage is extensive.

Even if you save lives, the insurance company could say the same thing. Life sometimes calls on us to step up. I no longer offer any assistance beyond standing by or relaying radio messages unless there is a clear immediate treat of injury or death as opposed to just property damage or delay waiting for a licensed and insured commercial outfit to show up.

I don't think insurance could get away with calling that commercial as long as you didn't accept money for it.

 

[Roger Long]

I don't think insurance could get away with calling that commercial as long as you didn't accept money for it.

Well, they have told hurricane victims that they were not covered because the damage was caused by rising water (driven up by wind) instead of wind and they didn't have flood insurance.


Even if you won, it would be after a long and expensive court battle.

 

[psneeld]

I don't think insurance could get away with calling that commercial as long as you didn't accept money for it.

I somewhat agree that lending assistance without being paid/compensated is not a commercial endeavor... but ungrounding a boat or helping a sinker or helping put out a fire can be a very fine line between emergency assistance and salvage. Heck it is often debated by commercial assistance towers trying to collect above normal rates or membership service.

Again, not trying to say never help, just realize that so many situations are seen differently than what others see and the courts seem to agree with all the different vies at different times. Probably because of the way evidence is presented less so that true substance.

 

[Porgy]

I read my Chubb policy and it does cover towing for emergency situations, distress or unintentionally disabled vessel, provided there is no consideration for my services.

Like the older thread about the tow and subsequent lawsuit off Catalina, there is a difference between rendering assistance to save a life and towing a boat because they were too cheap to pay for towing insurance or pay for a tow. There may be circumstances where towing is the safer method of saving lives but I don’t believe 46 U.S. Code § 2304 states that one is required to tow boats around. Seems pretty clear to me, “shall render assistance to any individual found at sea in danger of being lost” I’ll stand by a disabled boat if requested but do not plan on otherwise towing them unless it is a better method of saving their lives.

 

[psneeld]

Well, they have told hurricane victims that they were not covered because the damage was caused by rising water (driven up by wind) instead of wind and they didn't have flood insurance.


Even if you won, it would be after a long and expensive court battle.

The rumor with many in NJ was that is why Hurricane Sandy was renamed just before it crossed the beach. I knew some people that claimed they were denied insurance claims because of the change in status.

From Wikipedia....

" Early on October 29, Sandy curved west-northwest (the "left turn" or "left hook") and then[10] moved ashore near Brigantine, New Jersey, just to the northeast of Atlantic City, as a post-tropical cyclone with hurricane-force winds."

 

[Portage_Bay]

You should check with your insurer to be certain (Any comment Pau Hana?) however I am pretty sure that no yacht insurance will decline to cover you in the event that you suffer an accident while engaged in an unplanned rescue tow. That is treated completely differently from a boat engaging in the business of towing. I also have always understood that one has an obligation to assist if able to do so.

The point I was making in my post #37 is that I will without question assist when a situation is or could be life threatening. Drifting disabled down the Columbia River towards the bar could have become life threatening. Probably not becuase the USCG has a big presence there and there are commercial tow services avaiable. But it could have. I felt it the right thing to do to respond to the "Any vessels in the vicinity able to assist" call from the USCG. When I had towed him to near the entrance to the harbor of his choice, further than I needed to two him to get him to safety, the possible threat to life had been elimnatied. The risk at that point was to his wallet. A risk he needed to assume, not me. I had towed him without concern for insurance or lability. Perhaps I was being naive in the risk I was taking but that's what I did. A boater needed help, I helped him. However taking him under tow into close quarters maneuvering was a different risk. I likely would have suceeded, I've got enough towing experience to feel confident. But, and this is a huge but, if things went wrong and I damaged other boats? I just don't want to fight that insurance/legal battle.

 

[dhays]

Greetings,
I've heard several calls for assistance but have never been close enough? to help. I add the question mark because that's one of my "beefs". Any calls I've heard go something like this..."Any vessels in the vicinity of Snob's Point, watch for...". I've never heard Lat/Long given and I'm usually NOT local. If Snob's Point isn't on a chart somewhere, I have no idea if I can help or not. Local names don't help. Perhaps "4 miles east of XXX (some named and very well known location)." or near MM 73, perhaps.

What is worse is when the CG gives bad locations.

One of the very few times I have been out on my boat this year I went South to McMicken Island in Case Inlet. On the way back to Gig Harbor the next day the USCG was relaying a PanPan call about a boat in trouble in “Case Inlet, West of Fox Island”.

Well, while Case Inlet is West of Fox Island, I am pretty sure they were referring to Carr Inlet which actually runs along the SW shore of Fox Island. It would seem to me that the Guardsman on the radio should have take moment it would have required to verify the location.

 

[SteveK]

Dave, I hope you told them, they would not mind.

A few weeks ago I was approaching where I wished to anchor, a rescue helo flew over and a mayday relay started up. Since the recue chopper flew over us and over the island to the other side we did not realize that we were around the corner of the event until after at anchor the rescue chopper, hovercraft and all arrived on scene. By then we were not needed. I suspect directions given were off then too.

 

[adornato]

Seems that it is up to the discretion and choice of the watch officer or broadcast coastie whether to describe the location by lat/long or geographical landmarks.
usually it is just lat/long here in San Francisco bay area.
More than once I have had to radio the CG asking for a geographic description as I am usually singlehanding and dont have a navigation officer and a full set of paper westcoast charts to plot

 

[Tang]

Even without charts you, as navigator, should have a pretty good idea how far in nautical miles each degree of lat and long represent for your general area.

For instance at my longitude of 61 then a minute is approx. 57 nautical miles, so it’s easy to know if the vessel in distress is in your general area or many miles away even before scrolling the plotter to find a waypoint.

If you’re not sure how far it is in your own area then this link is useful to remind you.

https://stevemorse.org/nearest/distance.php

 

[backinblue]

Cell phones are a very poor substitute for a VHF radio. You can only contact one person at a time and you need to know their number.

The VHF radio sends out a message to anyone with a radio who is in range.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of boaters who haven't figured this out.

I agree and am surprised that some of my boating friends don't monitor 16, or maybe don't even know they should. In Long Island Sound you are always within cell service so when anyone calls the CG for help, one of the first things they usually ask is for a cell #.

 

[AquilaCat]

We were in Biscayne National Park, FL with severe weather predicted. We searched for dockage for 2 days but none was available and finally settled for a protected anchorage at Adams Key. I could see the storm on radar and as it approached I started my engines and drove up on our 45 pound Mantis anchor for the next 2 hours. When the wind gusts rose to 70 mph, all other boats in the anchorage were washed ashore. There was nothing I could do to help. Several Mayday calls went out but Coast Guard Maimi could not locate them. I activated my DSC emergency switch which sent our GPS info and within 5 minutes a helicopter was overhead and Towboat US was not far behind. All were rescued. I cannot believe the wind and seas they endured to reach them.

 

[Hippocampus]

Always thought the cell# thing was for different reasons.
To clear 16 for other radio traffic.
To allow a private conversation.
To permit more reliable and clearer communications.

Remain annoyed by folks using 16 as chat channel or for radio checks. Even hear people stepping on emergency CG communications with inane conversations such as where folks will meet or radio checks. Think that’s a reason CG gets off 16 when they can.

 

[rslifkin]

Always thought the cell# thing was for different reasons.
To clear 16 for other radio traffic.
To allow a private conversation.
To permit more reliable and clearer communications.

Remain annoyed by folks using 16 as chat channel or for radio checks. Even hear people stepping on emergency CG communications with inane conversations such as where folks will meet or radio checks. Think that’s a reason CG gets off 16 when they can.

It's definitely for that. For quick stuff they'll often switch you to 22A and talk there. For longer stuff they usually prefer to switch to phone when possible.

 

[backinblue]

I agree with those reasons assuming there is good cell signal. I'd also add that a cell phone may be more reliable than a VHF on a boat that is in distress such as taking on water. The radio checks are tolerable and I'm guilty of asking or replying at times, but try to keep those as brief as possible. I'll try other channels first but normally don't get a reply. A radio check should be no more than a few seconds on either end. The CG will often remind people who are chatting on 16 for more than that.

 

[backinblue]

Several Mayday calls went out but Coast Guard Maimi could not locate them. I activated my DSC emergency switch which sent our GPS info and within 5 minutes a helicopter was overhead and Towboat US was not far behind.

Why could they not be located? Could they not give accurate GPS coorinates or was the reception poor? If DSC works I'd assume you can make a VHF call, no?

 

[gilbertpark]

Hello

Just yesterday (Saturday) I was on my way back to my home berth in Emsworth when I came across floating debris and could just see an outboard motor and stern quarter of a small boat. The I saw two men and a dog in the debris.

No time to unlock the phone and find the CG number. VHF radio ready in front of me. Put out Mayday by voice as I manoeuvred to get next to the casualties. Got them on board and sent detailed May Day on 16 to the CG. It was heard by the CG, Chichester Harbour Patrol, Chichester Rescue. No need to speak to all of them individually, they all responded.

The two people and the dog were cold, got them onboard and then lifeboat, towing rib and two harbour master boats arrived.

The life boat escorted me (at speed) to a nearby marina who I spoke to about where to berth on the VHF radio.

The other boats dealt with the wreck which was a hazard to navigation.

No cell phones used at all only VHF radio, best way to get help.

By the way the dog had a bouancy aid on, the most useful part was the handle to lift him on with.

 

[Hippocampus]

Nothing but praise to you for your actions. Hope everything here would act the same. Wonderful feeling to save a life. The hell with lawyers, insurance or anyone else who would impede that action.

 

[SteveK]

Nothing but praise to you for your actions. Hope everything here would act the same. Wonderful feeling to save a life. The hell with lawyers, insurance or anyone else who would impede that action.

+1 saves me re typing

 

[AlanT]

+2 Shouldn't even be up for discussion. You help people in need at sea.

 

[BruceK]

Hello

Just yesterday (Saturday) I was on my way back to my home berth in Emsworth when I came across floating debris and could just see an outboard motor and stern quarter of a small boat. The I saw two men and a dog in the debris. .....The two people and the dog were cold, got them onboard and then lifeboat, towing rib and two harbour master boats arrived.

Well done! And, that`s how it works in the real world,absent all the theorist stuff above.

 

[OldDan1943]

+2 Shouldn't even be up for discussion. You help people in need at sea.

+3

 

[psneeld]

Often lending assistance is easy.... not always.

Some of the hardest decisions to make in a lifetime are those split second ones where success happens or worsening the situation by a longshot

A good example, all summer long of reports of family and friends drowning (often multiple) while trying to save one.

Not saying don't help but have seen emotion/adrenaline turn some people into dangerous thinkers as it feeds their overconfidence.

That's why many professional captains will only stand by and pick people out of the water or come alongside in great conditions and not much more.