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06-14-2020, 06:06 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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Lehman 120 Exhaust Elbow Replacement - Is It Time?
My elbows are five years old with about 1,000 hours use. Should they be replaced as preventive maintenance? I have no signs of leakage.
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06-14-2020, 07:32 AM
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#2
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
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That’s starting to get up there. They can fail internally with no external signs. I would at least remove and examine them inside.
Ken
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06-14-2020, 08:51 AM
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#3
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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I’d just replace them. We lost an engine on our last boat because we didn’t change the elbow. The water injection port into the elbow corroded through. When we’d shut off the engine, water would run into the last cylinder via one of the valves. The valve stem corroded and broke off. We were able to rebuild the engine but it would have been cheaper to replace the $200 elbow. This is the head of the valve after it bounced around in the cylinder before we were able to shut it down.
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06-14-2020, 09:08 AM
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#4
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Veteran Member
City: Corona
Vessel Name: SCRAMBLER
Vessel Model: 1974 Grand Banks 32 #536
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 74
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I was told replace every six years? I’m curious to see what Ski has to say He has probably replaced hundreds
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06-14-2020, 09:33 AM
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#5
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Guru
City: Southport, FL near Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busterbrown
I was told replace every six years? I’m curious to see what Ski has to say He has probably replaced hundreds
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In 29 years, I replaced mine three times on my twin 120s; once when I replaced the corroded mufflers above the engines early on, and twice when I saw signs of leakage onto the top of the heat exchangers. Given the valve issue mentioned above, I do however, think every 5 years is a good plan. I found that the lower right hand bolt head required a ground-down wrench for removal, and you really should put some anti-seize on all four bolts. I broke one once and required the assistance of a mechanic with an oxy torch to remove it, one of two or three times outside assistance ever walked aboard my boat.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
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06-14-2020, 11:44 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Everett
Vessel Name: LIBERTY
Vessel Model: TOLLY 48
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 502
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Hi Catalinajack,
My personal rule of thumb is to remove, clean, bead blast, and inspect my risers every five years, on both my main engine(s) and gensets. Regardless of engine hours, and regardless of material. Inevitably, after these inspections, I've discovered I had to replace 'em at ten year intervals. Sometimes I can save the old ones as spares, but end up junking them sometime thereafter, as they're simply taking up space.
Again, in my personal opinion, a five-year replacement interval for risers is a bit steep for recreational use. I've gotten better service life than that, over several decades of experience. Risers, heat blankets, and the labor to remove and inspect are tough enough nuts to cache. Adding the cost of NEW risers to that total is a bit spendy.
AND, I've gotten a few "holy $%^&, look at THAT" moments upon inspection (particularly on a new-to-me boat) that prompted an immediate deep dive into my back pocket for yet another (few) thousand. Money very well spent, as I've never lost an engine (knock on wood) to date due to riser issues.
Regards,
Pete
ps-risers seldom give you an external indication of failure. It's almost always inside, where you can't see the failure, unless you remove the silly thing.
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06-14-2020, 01:26 PM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,129
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If you are worried about them go ahead and replace them. They have had a good long life. Who knows how long they will go. If you wait 1 hour too long what are the consequences? Rebuild the engine... After 1000 hours you have gotten good value from them.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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06-14-2020, 01:40 PM
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#8
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Veteran Member
City: San Francisco
Vessel Name: Voyager
Vessel Model: Universal 39' Europa Trawler
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 96
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I would replace them. Otherwise you will likely face the same situation as I have... On a naturally aspirated Lehman it's not a big task and replacements are only $200 per engine.
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06-14-2020, 02:12 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M
I’d just replace them. We lost an engine on our last boat because we didn’t change the elbow. The water injection port into the elbow corroded through. When we’d shut off the engine, water would run into the last cylinder via one of the valves. The valve stem corroded and broke off. We were able to rebuild the engine but it would have been cheaper to replace the $200 elbow. This is the head of the valve after it bounced around in the cylinder before we were able to shut it down.
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As said inspection can't hurt.
In your case how did the water flow into 6th? To rephrase, I know exhaust manifold, open valve. What I am wondering since the outlet is higher than manifold once the engine stops there should be no flow. When engine is running the exhaust should keep water heading out.
My guess, trying to get confirmation is it entered during cranking, before starting. That was explained before here, if it does not start right away, shut the intake thru hull.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
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06-14-2020, 04:04 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
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Steve I believe the problem occurs when the mixer elbow corrodes through near the top. On shutdown, residual water dribbles through the hole and into the manifold and through a possibly open exhaust valve. Would only take a few drops left sitting there for any length of time to cause cylinder problems.
Ken
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06-15-2020, 07:25 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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I just removed one elbow. It still has some life in it. Tomorrow I am driving down to American Diesel to pick up two new elbows. Based on my experience it looks like, on this boat, exhaust elbows should last more than five years and 1,000 miles. I am a great fan of replacing parts before their time. I don't care about squeezing that last bit of use from anything boat or vehicle.
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06-15-2020, 07:30 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack
I just removed one elbow. It still has some life in it. Tomorrow I am driving down to American Diesel to pick up two new elbows. Based on my experience it looks like, on this boat, exhaust elbows should last more than five years and 1,000 miles. I am a great fan of replacing parts before their time. I don't care about squeezing that last bit of use from anything boat or vehicle.
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Is a picture possible of the inside? New compared to old.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
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06-15-2020, 07:56 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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I will post before and after pics in a couple of days. Am getting the new elbows tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley
Is a picture possible of the inside? New compared to old.
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06-21-2020, 03:17 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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No pictures. I was unable to sufficiently light the inside of the elbows to get a decent photo. I think most would agree, however, that the elbows still had a lot of life left in them. Having already removed one, I elected to replace both rather than just one or reinstalling the one I had removed. I already had new elbows in hand. Getting the 3.5 inch hose off the the elbows proved not as difficult as I had anticipated. Also, because over time, every six months or so, I had loosed the mounting bolts and re-tightened, with anti-seize, getting those bolts out was no problem at all.
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06-21-2020, 07:50 AM
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#15
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Veteran Member
City: Green Cove Springs
Vessel Name: Dance Me
Vessel Model: Defever 49 RPH
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 25
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My last trawler had a Perkins with stainless elbow. I’m lack knowledge on the Lehmans but they and Perkins would be a prerequisite on my next trawler. Do they not make them in stainless and if so would the extra cost be worth the benefit?
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06-21-2020, 09:49 AM
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#16
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jango
My last trawler had a Perkins with stainless elbow. I’m lack knowledge on the Lehmans but they and Perkins would be a prerequisite on my next trawler. Do they not make them in stainless and if so would the extra cost be worth the benefit?
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You can buy a SS elbow for the FL SP135 but I haven’t seen one for the FL120.
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06-21-2020, 12:37 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Gulf Islands, BC Canada
Vessel Name: Sea Sanctuary
Vessel Model: Bayliner 4588
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack
No pictures. I was unable to sufficiently light the inside of the elbows to get a decent photo. I think most would agree, however, that the elbows still had a lot of life left in them. Having already removed one, I elected to replace both rather than just one or reinstalling the one I had removed. I already had new elbows in hand. Getting the 3.5 inch hose off the the elbows proved not as difficult as I had anticipated. Also, because over time, every six months or so, I had loosed the mounting bolts and re-tightened, with anti-seize, getting those bolts out was no problem at all.
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Thanks for trying.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine. That is why I have two.
Sea Sanctuary-new to me 1992 Bayliner 4588
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06-21-2020, 03:14 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Sandpiper
Vessel Model: Bluewater 40 Pilothouse Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,315
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I'm on my third elbow in 20 years. Around 5 to 7 years between replacement.
My elbows always start leaking on the exterior. I use the 3" elbow.
The elbows on FL 120 are so inexpensive that replacement is not as painfull as other engines. Previous boat with a Perkins 63544 required a stainless steel elbow that cost $1300 to have made in 1990.
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06-21-2020, 05:03 PM
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#19
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Veteran Member
City: St. Joseph
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
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I’m curious if anyone has an idea of Lehman 120 elbow lifespan in freshwater. I suspect that makes a fairly significant difference. Anyone know?
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06-26-2020, 05:09 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
City: Northport
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 371
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I read somewhere to replace every 2 years.
That being said, I replace every 3 years. (I went 2 years in the first one, looked at it when I replaced it and thought it had life in it.). I went 4 years in the second and the “shelf” in the elbow was thin, but I could have squeezed another year out of it.
I’ll take pics when I replace. I think every 3-4 years is a good measure. If I’m taking the trouble to take it off, might as well replace it. I purchase mine on eBay (new) for about 125$ shipped. (Maybe bomac marine).
In any case, that’s in the northeast in saltwater.
I think the most corrosive aspect to the shelf is being superheated and cold water pouring on it. (But I’m not a metallurgist, lol)
I’ll post some pics. Was gonna do it this weekend. (Painted it Lehman red last weekend)
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