Latest Ruling Jones Act and Offshore Wind

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There’s obvious geopolitical reasons why this isn’t a good idea over the long haul. Go back a few decades and remember when India and Russia had close relationships. Of course at present our main concern is China both geopolitically and economically but the downside of globalization is as a customer based economy is how vulnerable we are. I’m hearten about the inclusion of government funded R&D in the latest economic development plan.
 
ksanders said:
These guys literally dream of our lifestyle in the US. They are willing to do the same jobs we do, and live a lifestyle that our most junior workers would not be happy with.

That really changed my outlook. There is frankly no competing with someone just as smart, just as educated, and willing to lead a lifestyle that represents the entire reason you went to college and busted your but to get away from.

But you are basing others lifestyle and happiness on the American model.

Those folks at that meeting would be kings by India standards, are happy to have achieved their lifestyle and not yet bound to a mindset that “stuff” is the measure of success.
 
Kevin an excellent summation.
You have shown it is not just the sweatshops we keep hearing about taking jobs.

You think all those foreign students obtaining degrees in our universities are returning home to sweatshops?

No, they are the Kevin Sanders of Hyderabad, outsourcing for the US.

Keep your eye on Vietnam if the collective "we" survive covid-19 and it's nasty cousins.
 
Excellent summary from Kevin.


The fundamental issue is that we need to compete, and that's in all dimensions. As a country we place great value on open markets, competition, and individuals working hard to advance themselves. Well, that's exactly what we are facing, and exactly what the team from India is doing.


If a person has limited skills, yet wants a US TV lifestyle, they are going to be (already are) in trouble because as you described, there are lots and lots of people in the world with similar skills who are trying to lift themselves up from a much lower lifestyle starting point. They have a much lower cost of living, and much more modest spending desires, so can advance on a much lower wage. Net result, unskilled and semi skilled jobs flood out of the US in an open market system. So what do you do?


You can close the gates to stop the flood, abandoning the much loved open market system. That's what tariffs and various other protectionist policies do. But it's really saying that we like the open market system when we are on the winning side, but not when we are on the losing side. There will always be some degree of this, but in the long run it's hiding from the problem, which only gives it time to become worse and harder to solve.



Now as you look at more skilled jobs, and companies with defensible intellectual property, you have something that you can hold on to. We have business segments like this, but growing that means continuing to elevate the skill level of the population, and the superiority of produced products. But that leads us into education, which by all measures is a giant failure in the US. It's just not valued, and often even vilified. With that sentiment, it's no wonder we are where we are. And so goes Rome.


Now I'm depressed. Can we talk about anchors? And about how many micron's my fuel filters should be?
 
twistedtree said:
But that leads us into education, which by all measures is a giant failure in the US.

Yet, as evidenced right here, the US military provided huge educational opportunities to people who have made successful and lucrative careers from it.
 
Just as a totally unrelated but relevant factoid: Canada eliminated all its domestic vaccine production facilities a few years back and is now is totally dependent on foreign-produced vaccines. And Canada is now months behind the US in vaccination rates. And it might get worse if the EU (or India) decides on a EU-first (or India-first) policy as the USA has. That's a consequence of out-sourcing beyond your borders - when a crunch comes, your source may not be so responsive.
 
Yet, as evidenced right here, the US military provided huge educational opportunities to people who have made successful and lucrative careers from it.


Agreed. Lots of people find their way through it using many different paths. It's just not enough people to offset the losses in lower skill jobs.


We also can't lose sight of the individual's role in this. It also takes motivation, initiative, and hard work to elevate your lifestyle. You can't "give" that to someone. It has to come from the individual. A society needs to offer opportunities. It's then up to the individual to avail him/herself of those opportunities. And if the opportunities become so scarce, people stop trying and you get the sorts of messes that we have in too many places. When crime is the only thing that pays, you get crime.
 
Excellent summary from Kevin.


The fundamental issue is that we need to compete, and that's in all dimensions. As a country we place great value on open markets, competition, and individuals working hard to advance themselves. Well, that's exactly what we are facing, and exactly what the team from India is doing.


If a person has limited skills, yet wants a US TV lifestyle, they are going to be (already are) in trouble because as you described, there are lots and lots of people in the world with similar skills who are trying to lift themselves up from a much lower lifestyle starting point. They have a much lower cost of living, and much more modest spending desires, so can advance on a much lower wage. Net result, unskilled and semi skilled jobs flood out of the US in an open market system. So what do you do?


You can close the gates to stop the flood, abandoning the much loved open market system. That's what tariffs and various other protectionist policies do. But it's really saying that we like the open market system when we are on the winning side, but not when we are on the losing side. There will always be some degree of this, but in the long run it's hiding from the problem, which only gives it time to become worse and harder to solve.



Now as you look at more skilled jobs, and companies with defensible intellectual property, you have something that you can hold on to. We have business segments like this, but growing that means continuing to elevate the skill level of the population, and the superiority of produced products. But that leads us into education, which by all measures is a giant failure in the US. It's just not valued, and often even vilified. With that sentiment, it's no wonder we are where we are. And so goes Rome.

Now I'm depressed. Can we talk about anchors? And about how many micron's my fuel filters should be?

Yes the problem is really under education, and not just college education, skills based education. Americans in general are lazy, where our world competition seems to value education.

Here is another true story...

I worked as part of a team of electronics professionals maintaining the control system for the largest oilfield in North America.

I saw that technology was changing from TDM digital communications to Ethernet based communications. My world was changing and I felt the need to keep up.

What I needed was an education update and at my own expense I purchased course material, and attended online classes on The Cisco equipment that was quickly replacing the older gear we were using.

This cost me almost $10,000 and took all the "free time" I could get at work, and a lot of my off work time as well for over a year. Eventually I earned my CISCO Certified Network Professional certification, which qualified me to maintain the enterprise class network we were upgrading to.

My first level manager liked my new skill set and decided to purchase the same training I had paid for myself for the rest of the team.

A year later ZERO of them had completed even the most basic course, or earned even a junior level Cisco certification.

Yet we had by then over 5,000 Cisco Routers and switches to maintain.

I have found that same general behavior to be prevalent in American workers. They are not willing to do anything to improve their skills to make them marketable.

Our local dealership had a recent advertisement that was "if you are a certified diesel mechanic and are not making six figures, give us a call". Go to the dealership and it's a three week wait to get your truck worked on.

Why??? A shortage of diesel mechanics. Yet there is a trade tech in Seward that offers diesel mechanic certifications, and a student loan program in Alaska that will loan enough to cover the costs including room and board for the dorm.
 
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So we all have an idea what the Jones Act affect on Cruise ships is. On the west coast you see land based wind mills all the time. I would think offshore would be a little more difficult. Are the offshore mills an issue with navigation? How will it affect cruisers up and down the east coast?

According with the article it would appear the CBP made history. It states:

CBP on January 27, 2021 for first time issued a ruling that expressly found that the Jones Act applies to the transportation of merchandise from a U.S. port to a location on the U.S. outer continental shelf for the purpose of the development and production of wind energy.
 
Cruise ships and the Jones act, which is the subject of another thread, is a bit of a chicken and egg issue. The cruise ships have been operating as permitted by the Jones Act. It's arguably a loop hole, but it is what it is, and has been for 100 years. Nothing in the Jones Act has changed. All that's happened is that the cruise lines' ability to exercise the loophole has gone away since they can't stop in Canada because of Covid.


So is it Canada's fault that Covid is still a problem? Not really. Is it the Jones act's fault? Not really, because nothing changed there. Is it the Cruise lines fault for working around the Jones Act? No more so now than before. That said, take away any one of these things and cruise operations are restored, and that's what everyone wants.
 
Cruise ships and the Jones act, which is the subject of another thread, is a bit of a chicken and egg issue. The cruise ships have been operating as permitted by the Jones Act. It's arguably a loop hole, but it is what it is, and has been for 100 years. Nothing in the Jones Act has changed. All that's happened is that the cruise lines' ability to exercise the loophole has gone away since they can't stop in Canada because of Covid.


So is it Canada's fault that Covid is still a problem? Not really. Is it the Jones act's fault? Not really, because nothing changed there. Is it the Cruise lines fault for working around the Jones Act? No more so now than before. That said, take away any one of these things and cruise operations are restored, and that's what everyone wants.
As stated cruise ships another thread. COVID is not part of the discussion and/or thread between the Jones Act and offshore wind generation.

Can we please start breaking our selves off of COVID posts. Not every thread/post has to have COVID in it.

Now back to offshore wind and the ruling on the Jones Act.
 
I'm in favor of the Jones Act.

Protecting US taxpaying workers is a good thing to me.

We can all be outsourced to cheaper labor. Somewhere someone with more skills than you or me (in our specialty) is willing to work for less money, and lead a lesser lifestyle than we live.

I would like to protect that lifestyle.


I would like to also.
But we beg the question of who does the earth belong to.
Up until now it’s been what nations are willing to do (mostly war wise) to keep other people from getting or taking what we believe is ours mostly because we’ve been able to protect that land and keep it for ourselves. It’s very selfish of course and that’s a fact.

Look at our southern border now that there’s not enough land to support all the people coming forth. Overpopulation just like it happens w other lesser animals. We consider ourselves ourselves superior but there’s no sign whatever that we as a species will or can control our numbers.

Do/should other people have the right to come and use/live on this land we call ours? When the worlds population is double what it is now how should it be?

Now that we can’t control Russia and China “ours” may not be ours very much longer.

But now Kevin is right we will “protect our lifestyle”.
 
Greetings,
Mr. NW. "Do/should other people have the right to come and use/live on this land we call ours?" How about you ask these people?


iu
 
To be blunt but factual the land is no longer theirs .. we took it from them.

Sorry to say so.

What would they do if we gave the land back?
 
To be blunt but factual the land is no longer theirs .. we took it from them.

Sorry to say so.

What would they do if we gave the land back?

And history shows they migrated from Eurasia and also took it and settled it.

RT, is that youngster you? :D
 
I really believe that if the political leaders of the world could see their planet from a distance of, let’s say 100,000 miles, their outlook would be fundamentally changed. The all-important border would be invisible, that noisy argument suddenly silenced.”
– Michael Collins, Apollo 11

Read today that only 24 people have ever been far enough away from Earth to see it in its entirety, floating in space.
 
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As it should be Murray.
But we’ll never get there overpopulated.
 
Ever hear of Becton & Dickinson? They have several plants in the US making medical supplies. About two years ago B&D installed a new nuclear sterization building at their Canaan, CT plant. That sterization line is used to sterilize syringes among other products. So, the statement that US manufacturers are not able to produce medical supplies is wholly inaccurate. B&D is a major supplier of medical supplies in the US. Then there is Johnson & Johnson - Band Aid and the covid vaccine come to mind.
"but lighten up the requirement to be US built to allow commercial use by a US owner."


"Offshore is cheaper" is how we got the problem of not being able to make our own medical supplies.
 
As this subject has now wandered so off track and is therefore past any 'best by' date it might have had, it is now closed.
 
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