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Old 05-14-2017, 09:12 PM   #21
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It certainly does if its not a designated anchorage, unfortunately. Very much doubt an anchor ball was displayed.

Anchor ball does not need to be displayed from bow,usually aloft in rigging.
Man, all for defending that blow boater!
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:13 PM   #22
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HopCars advise is the best way to handle it in my opinion. Get your rail fixed and hopefully it won't be an argument over insurance companies...
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Old 05-14-2017, 09:18 PM   #23
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ID:	64756 Just washed the boat down and this seems to be the only damage, an approximately 4" x 1" section of gelcoat scraped off.

I did get the guys name, cell number, boat name and registration numbers. He was extremely apologetic. I was still in shock that it happened given the space he had to maneuver. He must have been seriously distracted.

Thanks for all the tips. I did call the CG and they told me to report it to the California Division of Boating and Waterways, which I'm in the process of doing.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:22 PM   #24
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As HopCar says, insurance should handle it. But as my doctor says about insurance companies, "they're all good, until you need them."

Meanwhile, day shape or no day shape, here's what Farwell's advises when crashing into an anchored vessel:

"It is a matter of seamanship that any vessel underway keeps clear of a vessel not underway. There is a definite presumption, by the courts, in favor of a vessel moored or at anchor, as against the vessel that collides with her - and quite properly, of course, because of the relative helplessness of the fixed vessel to avoid collision. In restricted visibility, a vessel striking another at anchor is practically self-convicted of excessive speed, since she has conclusively demonstrated her inability to stop in time." In short: " A moving vessel is prima facie in fault for a collision with one which is moored."

~ Frank E. Bassett and Richard A. Smith, Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road, Sixth Edition (Annapolis: U.S. Naval Institute Press, 1982), p. 327.

There have been two subsequent editions of Farwell's, but it's unlikely that the presumption of guilt against moving vessels has changed.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:38 PM   #25
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Do not report it to your insurance company. That will cause an increase in your rates.

You want the other guy to report it HIS insurance company.

Call him up and find out whether he plans on paying for it himself, or whether he is going to file a claim with HIS insurance company. If he is paying for it himself, get the estimate and send him the estimate, and verify he will pay, then have the work done. If he is having his insurance company pay for it, don't bother with a written estimate. Just have the work done and send the bill to him, then he can submit it to his insurance company. If the insurance company tries to negotiate with you, tell them you will sue their client if they do not pay in 30 days. That will usually cause them to stop trying to nickel and dime you. (Do not send an estimate to an insurance company, they only thing they care about are actual bills, not estimates.)
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:09 PM   #26
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Nobody was hurt. The guy gave you his contact information. File a claim with your insurance company and they will handle it from there. That's why you pay those premiums.
Life is too short to get angry about an accident like this.
THE correct answer.

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Do not report it to your insurance company. That will cause an increase in your rates.

You want the other guy to report it HIS insurance company.

Call him up and find out whether he plans on paying for it himself, or whether he is going to file a claim with HIS insurance company. If he is paying for it himself, get the estimate and send him the estimate, and verify he will pay, then have the work done. If he is having his insurance company pay for it, don't bother with a written estimate. Just have the work done and send the bill to him, then he can submit it to his insurance company. If the insurance company tries to negotiate with you, tell them you will sue their client if they do not pay in 30 days. That will usually cause them to stop trying to nickel and dime you. (Do not send an estimate to an insurance company, they only thing they care about are actual bills, not estimates.)
Respectfully, you are incorrect. Rates do not automatically increase based on a claim report. Also, in a claims situation, ANY repair other that those required to safeguard the vessel to prevent further damage must not start until after the repair amount is agreed upon by the owner and the insuring company paying for the repairs. The threat of suing an insurance company is foolish if made during a claim- the insuring company potentially paying for the repairs has a right to question the repair amount, as insurance fraud is rampant.

Here is the recommended course of action (after writing down the details of the incident):
  • If the offfending party's insurance info is known, report it to them.
  • If the offfending party's insurance info is not known, but you have his contact information, then the OP must contact his own insurance company. Based on his policy wording, the OP's insiring company will pay for the repairs, then subrogate against the offending party. If subrogation is successful, the deductible will be returned to the OP.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:29 PM   #27
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If it was me, I would do the following (and not saying this is the correct course of action)

1. Contact the other captain.
2. Report the incident to the authorities.
3. Report the incident to your insurance company.
4. Contact the other captain's insurance company.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:35 PM   #28
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if your insurance company uses claim history as a pricing factor, it won't matter if you report it to your insurance company or the sailboats insurance co.....it will be reflected in your rate upon your renewal.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:39 PM   #29
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Peter, am I correct in thinking that the op's insurance company will pay for the repair and then ask the other guys insurance to reimburse them?

Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:40 PM   #30
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Let's differentiate between what (A) the insurance companies want you to do, and (B) what you ought to do. Those are two different things. I am sure the other guy's insurance company will tell the guy with the hurt boat all kinds of things are a bad idea for him and a good idea for the insurance company.

The advice I gave is exactly what the guy should do.

If he files a claim with his own insurance company, I GUARANTEE his rates will go up. Not only that, insurance companies share claim information, so if he makes a claim on company A, then next year tries to switch to company B, they will know about the claim on A and quote him higher rates than if he had never made a claim. The fact that the claim might be paid by the guilty party's insurance is completely irrelevant. If you make a claim, your rates will go up, it is that simple. The technical term for this is your "claim history". Your "claim history" is a direct input into your rate calculation. Bottom Line: do NOT make a claim unless you have to.

The best course of action is for the OP to get an estimate and have the other guy pay it himself. That way both parties can avoid making a claim.

Also, by the way I never suggested suing the insurance company. Maybe actually read my post? I said to threaten to sue the CLIENT (the guy who hit his boat) which he has every right to do. It is not necessary to actually sue the guy, it is only necessary to make the threat. The advantage of making the threat is that it will prevent the other guy's insurance company from trying to pay only a percentage of the cost, which they very likely will do. Most adjusters are required to pay a full claim if there is a credible legal threat, so by making the threat you can force the adjuster to pay the whole bill. Adjusters get bonuses for reducing claims, so you need you use "special tactics" to make sure they get their bonuses on OTHER people's claims, not yours.
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
It certainly does if its not a designated anchorage, unfortunately. Very much doubt an anchor ball was displayed.

Anchor ball does not need to be displayed from bow,usually aloft in rigging.
A somewhat antiquated rule, if so, don't you think..? Referring to Marks second pic above, if someone can't see a large green & yellow vessel anchored there, what difference is a much smaller black ball dangling somewhere going to make..? Just sayin'...

PS. To jsc7. You might want to rethink being quite so dogmatic re what the OP should do, if I tell you (as he felt constrained to not mention it himself), that Pau Hana above is, or was, in the Insurance business, so would know more about the subject that most.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #32
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I can only speak with authority about auto insurance, but I'm sure its pretty similar. Different companies use different rate calculations...some will ding you for not at fault accidents and some won't. Some will ding you if you tell them about the accident but don't even file a claim. Some give you a break for being married, a college graduate or having good credit. Rate calculations are exceedingly complex and every company's is different.
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:43 AM   #33
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Just an opinion....

If I had the guys contact info, I'd make a call to see what his intentions were, and if there were any hesitation on paying the full cost of repair, I'd send an intent to file a lawsuit, and if no response in a week, I'd file a small claims action.... relatively cheap to do.

I'd not call his insurance co., it's not my business.

Also, I'd use an estimate, not necessarily the actual repair cost. I want to be made whole either by having the work done or the cash to do it.

If I had an insurance company that would raise my rates because of someone else's negligence, I'd not want insurance at all. Defeats it's purpose. Unfortunately, most insurance companies are not nice.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:59 AM   #34
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I fly an anchor ball because of final decisions from courts who have attibuted some percent of blame to vessels so flying shapes or having their lights on or sounding a fog signal.

These were in cases where it was rare that others were doing so, probably didn't mattered in the outcome, but required by the Colregs.

Not taking chances when the effort is small.

Plus, I have there are times approached vessels at anchor in strong currents from angles where it was not possible to tell whether they were underway or not. It would have been nice to know to make my approach around them.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:34 AM   #35
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Attachment 64756 Just washed the boat down and this seems to be the only damage, an approximately 4" x 1" section of gelcoat scraped off.

I did get the guys name, cell number, boat name and registration numbers. He was extremely apologetic. I was still in shock that it happened given the space he had to maneuver. He must have been seriously distracted.

Thanks for all the tips. I did call the CG and they told me to report it to the California Division of Boating and Waterways, which I'm in the process of doing.
Thats it?

Think of the sea cred you'll have at the docks now.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:22 AM   #36
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Peter, am I correct in thinking that the op's insurance company will pay for the repair and then ask the other guys insurance to reimburse them?

Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.
That's the way it worked for us. A boat yard damaged our sailboat. I called our insurance company, who sent out a surveyor with in a few hours. We took the boat to another yard for the repairs. Our company paid for the repairs and subrogated against the boat yards insurance company for their cost recover. The boat yards insurance company paid our deducible. Our rates did not go up. We did have to report the incident on future insurance applications for maybe 5 years which was a pain but the effort vs the damage was minimal.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:29 AM   #37
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If he files a claim with his own insurance company, I GUARANTEE his rates will go up.

How can you guarantee that? Do you work for his insurance company?

We have had substantial insurance claims in the past, with no subsequent rate hike...

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Old 05-15-2017, 07:47 AM   #38
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Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.
As one poor soul who has had FRP repairs done a few times, that is not a minor gouge. Do I see coring? It will easily be a $2000+ 3 step process if done by a pro.

BTW, of the few insurance experts on TF, Paul Hana is one.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:59 AM   #39
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I was unclear on whether the guy stopped and gave you information or you just got it from his registration information? I'm assuming no photos? Regardless, don't underestimate the cost of a properly done repair by a reputable yard. You are not under an obligation to DIY or take any other short cut. That is not an inexpensive repair to be made. I'm assuming your boat is gelcoat, not paint? I also didn't hear any words like apology?
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:39 AM   #40
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Was there a girl on the sailboat ... where did he have his hands?
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