Just got hit head-on by a sailboat

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It certainly does if its not a designated anchorage, unfortunately. Very much doubt an anchor ball was displayed.

Anchor ball does not need to be displayed from bow,usually aloft in rigging.

A somewhat antiquated rule, if so, don't you think..? Referring to Marks second pic above, if someone can't see a large green & yellow vessel anchored there, what difference is a much smaller black ball dangling somewhere going to make..? Just sayin'... :confused:

PS. To jsc7. You might want to rethink being quite so dogmatic re what the OP should do, if I tell you (as he felt constrained to not mention it himself), that Pau Hana above is, or was, in the Insurance business, so would know more about the subject that most. :)
 
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I can only speak with authority about auto insurance, but I'm sure its pretty similar. Different companies use different rate calculations...some will ding you for not at fault accidents and some won't. Some will ding you if you tell them about the accident but don't even file a claim. Some give you a break for being married, a college graduate or having good credit. Rate calculations are exceedingly complex and every company's is different.
 
Just an opinion....

If I had the guys contact info, I'd make a call to see what his intentions were, and if there were any hesitation on paying the full cost of repair, I'd send an intent to file a lawsuit, and if no response in a week, I'd file a small claims action.... relatively cheap to do.

I'd not call his insurance co., it's not my business.

Also, I'd use an estimate, not necessarily the actual repair cost. I want to be made whole either by having the work done or the cash to do it.

If I had an insurance company that would raise my rates because of someone else's negligence, I'd not want insurance at all. Defeats it's purpose. Unfortunately, most insurance companies are not nice.
 
I fly an anchor ball because of final decisions from courts who have attibuted some percent of blame to vessels so flying shapes or having their lights on or sounding a fog signal.

These were in cases where it was rare that others were doing so, probably didn't mattered in the outcome, but required by the Colregs.

Not taking chances when the effort is small.

Plus, I have there are times approached vessels at anchor in strong currents from angles where it was not possible to tell whether they were underway or not. It would have been nice to know to make my approach around them.
 
View attachment 64756 Just washed the boat down and this seems to be the only damage, an approximately 4" x 1" section of gelcoat scraped off.

I did get the guys name, cell number, boat name and registration numbers. He was extremely apologetic. I was still in shock that it happened given the space he had to maneuver. He must have been seriously distracted.

Thanks for all the tips. I did call the CG and they told me to report it to the California Division of Boating and Waterways, which I'm in the process of doing.

Thats it?

Think of the sea cred you'll have at the docks now. :D
 
Peter, am I correct in thinking that the op's insurance company will pay for the repair and then ask the other guys insurance to reimburse them?

Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.

That's the way it worked for us. A boat yard damaged our sailboat. I called our insurance company, who sent out a surveyor with in a few hours. We took the boat to another yard for the repairs. Our company paid for the repairs and subrogated against the boat yards insurance company for their cost recover. The boat yards insurance company paid our deducible. Our rates did not go up. We did have to report the incident on future insurance applications for maybe 5 years which was a pain but the effort vs the damage was minimal.
 
If he files a claim with his own insurance company, I GUARANTEE his rates will go up.


How can you guarantee that? Do you work for his insurance company?

We have had substantial insurance claims in the past, with no subsequent rate hike...

-Chris
 
Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.

As one poor soul who has had FRP repairs done a few times, that is not a minor gouge. Do I see coring? It will easily be a $2000+ 3 step process if done by a pro.

BTW, of the few insurance experts on TF, Paul Hana is one.
 
I was unclear on whether the guy stopped and gave you information or you just got it from his registration information? I'm assuming no photos? Regardless, don't underestimate the cost of a properly done repair by a reputable yard. You are not under an obligation to DIY or take any other short cut. That is not an inexpensive repair to be made. I'm assuming your boat is gelcoat, not paint? I also didn't hear any words like apology?
 
Was there a girl on the sailboat ... where did he have his hands?
 
Was it a Beneteau sailboat? Perhaps it was overcome by the rapture. That time of early evening, I think the sun is in your eyes approaching the cove? Not an excuse, but thinking of contributing factors. Usually several kayakers in the water there - was he under power or under sail?
 
Was there a girl on the sailboat ... where did he have his hands?



That I could understand! But there was a family on board with little kids, and the sails were down, and it was a gorgeous day with amazing visibility.
 
That I could understand! But there was a family on board with little kids, and the sails were down, and it was a gorgeous day with amazing visibility.

And those conditions are exactly when the majority of boating accidents occur.

Marty...........................
 
if it were me, I would swear on a bible that I was flying the round anchor signal....if he couldn't avoid your boat he was way too busy to know if it had a signal flying....and if it comes down to your word vs his word....his credibility is shot.
 
Peter, am I correct in thinking that the op's insurance company will pay for the repair and then ask the other guys insurance to reimburse them?

Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.

When I went through this process 1 1/2 years ago, my insurance co told me that if they paid for the repair, I'd have to pay the deductible up front and they'd attempt to get it from the other insurance co. As it turned out, the other insurance co took care of all expenses with minimal hassle.

How can you guarantee that? Do you work for his insurance company?

We have had substantial insurance claims in the past, with no subsequent rate hike...

-Chris

I have had two insurance claims but have never seen a rate increase as a result. First company was Zurich and current company is BoatUS. The other guy's company that handled my last claim was Markle.
 
Let's differentiate between what (A) the insurance companies want you to do, and (B) what you ought to do. Those are two different things. I am sure the other guy's insurance company will tell the guy with the hurt boat all kinds of things are a bad idea for him and a good idea for the insurance company.

The advice I gave is exactly what the guy should do.

If he files a claim with his own insurance company, I GUARANTEE his rates will go up. Not only that, insurance companies share claim information, so if he makes a claim on company A, then next year tries to switch to company B, they will know about the claim on A and quote him higher rates than if he had never made a claim. The fact that the claim might be paid by the guilty party's insurance is completely irrelevant. If you make a claim, your rates will go up, it is that simple. The technical term for this is your "claim history". Your "claim history" is a direct input into your rate calculation. Bottom Line: do NOT make a claim unless you have to.

The best course of action is for the OP to get an estimate and have the other guy pay it himself. That way both parties can avoid making a claim.

Also, by the way I never suggested suing the insurance company. Maybe actually read my post? I said to threaten to sue the CLIENT (the guy who hit his boat) which he has every right to do. It is not necessary to actually sue the guy, it is only necessary to make the threat. The advantage of making the threat is that it will prevent the other guy's insurance company from trying to pay only a percentage of the cost, which they very likely will do. Most adjusters are required to pay a full claim if there is a credible legal threat, so by making the threat you can force the adjuster to pay the whole bill. Adjusters get bonuses for reducing claims, so you need you use "special tactics" to make sure they get their bonuses on OTHER people's claims, not yours.


Well, I still disagree with you.

I work in the marine insurance industry (note my sig)- 14 years on the retail side, and for the past 1.5 years as a marine underwriter (I am the national manager for Charter Underwriting for GEICO Marine). I work with retail agents internal sales, and claims daily.

Insurance is not an evil entity designed to engender adversarial engagements- rather, it is in place to make you (or others) whole based on the merits of a claim.

You cannot guarantee anybody rates will go up as a result of a claim. That would amount to a guaranteed penalty for exercising your insurance, which would be illegal in a number of ways. Likewise, most yacht insurers offer haulout assistance for named storms and towing coverage- both are claims, and both do not add any A/P (additional premium) to a policy as a result of filing. What about damage at a marina that is not the fault of the insured, but covered by the marina? Again, claims that do not penalize the insured.

Marine insurance contracts are governed by a legal principle called uberrimae fidei" or "uttermost good faith". This means that all aspects of the risk must be disclosed by all parties- this means that a claim (such as this one) should be reported to the OP's insurer.

As far as suing/threatening to sue an insurance company- it is anybody's right to do so, but know that threatening legal action does nothing to make a marine insurance company tremble in fear and settle a claim any quicker. Nor are any claims adjustors required to "pay a full claim if there is credible legal threat"- in my experience, the claims process is usually slowed or halted when the claim escalates to legal action.

I don't know where you get your info about "an insurance company paying only a percentage of the cost" or any of the other stuff you present in your arguments, but I can say with authority that it is not correct in my profession. I did read all your arguments, and they sound more like information gleaned from internet searches based on disgruntled people that actual policy claims.

The disgruntled folks I've run into expect every loss scenario to be covered, and never bother to read their policy to ascertain what is covered and what is not. when a claim occurs, these same people sing to the high heavens how "they were screwed/how insurance companies are evil/how you never want to make a claim because your rates will go up".

If this is your argument, why do you have ay insurance coverage at all?
 
Peter, am I correct in thinking that the op's insurance company will pay for the repair and then ask the other guys insurance to reimburse them?

Actually the damage looks so minor it might not exceed the deductible, but he should let his insurance company tell him that.

Correct, Parks. In this scenario, the offending party is known, so the OP can make a claim withe the offending party's insurer. If the other guy's coverage does not respond, the OP can file with his insurer, who should pay them claim, the subrogate (go after) the other party. If successful, any deductible will be returned to the OP.
 
Just got hit head on by a sailboat

if it were me, I would swear on a bible that I was flying the round anchor signal....if he couldn't avoid your boat he was way too busy to know if it had a signal flying....and if it comes down to your word vs his word....his credibility is shot.



Transparency and 100% honesty are my bedrock principles I do not stray from. I tell the truth including anything that maybe will make me look bad or silly to some. I assume that Michael (the OP whom I've yet to meet but someday will am sure) is cut from similar cloth. If you tell the truth you have nothing to try and remember and nothing to get caught up in.

Boy these threads wander pretty far out into the weeds at times. Good luck being made whole soon Michael.
 
you never know who has video of the whole thing...or at least the lack of anchor ball...
not worth the chance...
 
Forget the anchor ball and all the other questions. What you have is one boat sitting still and another under power. The one under power is responsible and their only way of possibly escaping is to deny the entire event ever happened. Unfortunately, that does happen.

My mother was once parked at a hotel in FL. A guy in a pickup truck hit her car when leaving. She called the police and they put out an order to the highway patrol to look for and stop him. Well, he made it back to GA without being stopped. He then denied to his insurer completely, in spite of eye witnesses and a police report, so his insurer refused to pay and hers paid. The guy did then have a warrant out for his arrest in FL, so if he ever returned and was in any kind of traffic stop, he'd be taken to jail. As long as he stayed out of FL, he was forever free from the claim.
 
Well, I still disagree with you.

I work in the marine insurance industry (note my sig)- 14 years on the retail side, and for the past 1.5 years as a marine underwriter (I am the national manager for Charter Underwriting for GEICO Marine). I work with retail agents internal sales, and claims daily.

Insurance is not an evil entity designed to engender adversarial engagements- rather, it is in place to make you (or others) whole based on the merits of a claim.

Glad to see your defense of the industry and sorry you have to do so online. I've dealt with many insurance companies over the years and only had one unpleasant experience with all the others good.

As to suing an insurer, it's much like suing a company of any sort you feel in some way merits it. Standard policy is that once a company is sued, all handling of the matter goes to the legal department. The claims department is completely out of the picture just as all other departments in a business are. Ultimately there may be some negotiation, after a significant delay, but it will take place with legal. The feeling is that once you sue, you have turned it into a legal matter. You've made the decision that's how it is to be handled. You've said it cannot be resolved with claims. You sue any major business and the only people who will talk to you from that point forward are lawyers.
 
Any Aussies ever seen an anchored boat displaying a black ball here? (Reminds me of a joke about voting on a guy joining a smart Club).
The heated discussion about a simple insurance claim arising from a simple collision is surprising, it`s fortunate there is nothing complex about it.
 
Any Aussies ever seen an anchored boat displaying a black ball here? (Reminds me of a joke about voting on a guy joining a smart Club).
The heated discussion about a simple insurance claim arising from a simple collision is surprising, it`s fortunate there is nothing complex about it.

The ball can be black or white depending if the pope(eye) has been elected or not :lol:

L.
 
IMG_8435.JPGUsually several kayakers in the water there - was he under power or under sail?


He was under power. Here is a photo taken just prior to the accident. As you can see, based on the room around me and the weather, hard to imagine how this happened.

Anyway, got a quote for around $1,000. There was some delamination that needs to be repaired.

The guy who hit me is cooperating. Also, I have him on video apologizing, which would likely help if he wasn't cooperating.
 
Sounds like the ideal situation- all being adults about getting things settled.
 
He was under power. Here is a photo taken just prior to the accident. As you can see, based on the room around me and the weather, hard to imagine how this happened.

Anyway, got a quote for around $1,000. There was some delamination that needs to be repaired.

The guy who hit me is cooperating. Also, I have him on video apologizing, which would likely help if he wasn't cooperating.

Make sure there's an understanding that if they find more hidden damage in doing the repair then there could be more expense. Hopefully, they won't, but then I'm sure many wouldn't have realized there was delamination. Could be more than they think.

Clearly not a glancing blow, a lot of force.
 
Good to hear, Michael. I'll be in the area (South Beach Harbor) in early June for Beer Camp 2018 on Pier 48. C'mon by and we can compare battle scars.
 
Make sure there's an understanding that if they find more hidden damage in doing the repair then there could be more expense. Hopefully, they won't, but then I'm sure many wouldn't have realized there was delamination. Could be more than they think.



Clearly not a glancing blow, a lot of force.



The guy who looked at it said it would be about $850 but said he'd have to remove some caulking and depending on what he finds it could be another $300 - $500. I'm thinking about asking the person who hit me for the maximum amount of $1,350 with me returning a portion if not needed, or having him give me two checks, one to cover any additional damage found, which I'd rip up if not needed.
 
Why wouldn't you just have him agree to pay the yard directly. Then there's no issues.
 
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