Just a Few Questions about a Boat..

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 12:03 PM

I've just started looking for a new (to us) trawler. I'm starting to like the Marine Trader 40' Sundeck La Bella but the decks are all covered with teak.

Are there any other similar boats in price, style & layout that doesn't have all of this teak?

I want to cruise not refinish brightwork...

Another thing, I saw a Defever 40' with a Perkins & Lehman engines. What were they thinking? Or is it just me? The boat is priced pretty cheap but I wonder what else has been butchered?

thanks,
Dave

Nomad Willy · 01-21-2013, 01:02 PM

I think you were referring to a boat w one engine of each manufacturer.

I don't consider this a "butchered" boat at all. What would you do if one of your Lehman's or Perkins engines died and you had limited funds and a cheap but excellent engine turned up for sale but was a Perkins? If you were smart you'd put it in your boat.

Re this question we had a thread on it some time ago. Go take a look and after reading about it you may then see the "bastardized" boat as a very good buy. Only if it turns out to be of course. Play on the fact that others will scoff at it too. You could make a very nice deal on a good boat.

RT Firefly · 01-21-2013, 01:49 PM

Greetings,
Mr. Eric. While I agree with you, mismatched engines should pose no problem, the issue of "spares" might.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manyboats

I think you were referring to a boat w one engine of each manufacturer.

I don't consider this a "butchered" boat at all. What would you do if one of your Lehman's or Perkins engines died and you had limited funds and a cheap but excellent engine turned up for sale but was a Perkins? If you were smart you'd put it in your boat.

Re this question we had a thread on it some time ago. Go take a look and after reading about it you may then see the "bastardized" boat as a very good buy. Only if it turns out to be of course. Play on the fact that others will scoff at it too. You could make a very nice deal on a good boat.

That's some good advice. Guess I'll give it a closer look. It also fits into my cheapness mentality...

Marin · 01-21-2013, 03:16 PM

Be interesting to see what the props do in terms of thrust when the engines are synchronized. Will it be equal or not?

For many years American Diesel offered a new drop- in replacement for the FL120. It, too, was a marinized Ford of England six cylinder diesel but it was 150 hp instead of 120, and at the time Ford made it new. I don't know what American Diesel did to it but it was a direct drop-in when they were done. Same mounts, same height, mated up the same transmission, etc.

Several members of the GB forum had/have boats with one of these engines in place of one of the original FL120s and so far as I recall they did not present any operational challenges. I don't know if they had to use a different prop on the higher power engine.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 03:23 PM

That's the $$$ question

**Baker** · 01-21-2013, 03:37 PM

RTF, so direct and to the point!!!!! A VERY VERY valid point!!! Two sets of spares would suck!!!

TO answer the OP's question and as an avid Yachtworld junkie.... Marine Trader also makes a "Tradewinds" model that is mostly free of teak. Now you may find some teak on the sundeck but that is it. I personally am not a fan of buying an older boat with teak decks but this would not bother me as much as most of the decking has been covered all of it's life(by the hardtop of the sundeck). Also the Heritage East sundecks. Again, usually only the sundeck is teak. Hyatt makes a completely teak free sundeck MY and in my opinion one of the best quality Taiwanese boats. I base that opinion largely on the fact that their windows don't leak like many of the Marine Trader types. Also Jefferson makes some good boats without much teak. And while they are built in Taiwan, they are commissioned in Jefferson(ville?) Indiana. So there are a LARGE number of these boats that have spent their ENTIRE lives in fresh water... Californian made some handsome sundeck boats in the mid 80s with Good ole American craftsmanship(they truly are well built). The Californians had some teak on them but nor decks. Hatteras also has some good looking well built Sundecks although they are powered for planing performance and I do not know if that is attractive to you.

That should get ya started!!!

**Baker** · 01-21-2013, 03:45 PM

Oh yeah....almost forgot. The CHB/Present would also be a good choice and in your size range. The Present 42 is HUGE for a 42ft boat.

Chuck Gould · 01-21-2013, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachbum29

I've just started looking for a new (to us) trawler. I'm starting to like the Marine Trader 40' Sundeck La Bella but the decks are all covered with teak.

Are there any other similar boats in price, style & layout that doesn't have all of this teak?

I want to cruise not refinish brightwork...

thanks,
Dave

According to popular usage of the word, your decks aren't technically "brightwork", at least they shouldn't be. Brightwork is teak that has been varnished, (although protected with epoxy, etc, would still be brightwork as the wood has not been painted out). You shouldn't ever varnish a teak deck. If they look like they have some finish now, and especially if it looks sort of orange, that's not actually varnish; it's Cetol.

We had teak decks on our 36 Sundowner. If you scrub the decks each time you wash the boat, they should stay in acceptable shape between annual "brightenings" with a mild solution of oaxalic acid.

If the boat you are interested in has teak decks, it quite likely has some actual brightwork as well. Yeah, it is a lot of work. Our 40 Eagle has teak quarterboards and a teak cap rail, a lot less exterior teak than the Sundowner had. Not being as young and ambitious as once was, I think less teak is better.

Some will say a boat without any teak looks like a Clorox bottle. However, if the alternative is totally neglected teak decks and trim, a well kept Clorox bottle is probably more attractive.

Nomad Willy · 01-21-2013, 04:42 PM

Marin RE post #5 .... Of course. The engines are slightly different in disp but otherwise just about exactly the same. I'm sure one will never notice the difference. The biggest difference is probably the name on the valve cover ..... If they were proud enough to put one there. They didn't on my Mitsu. Could be an advantage too if the service side of the engine was on the other side. Other advantages (not so obvious) may emerge.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Gould

According to popular usage of the word, your decks aren't technically "brightwork", at least they shouldn't be. Brightwork is teak that has been varnished, (although protected with epoxy, etc, would still be brightwork as the wood has not been painted out). You shouldn't ever varnish a teak deck. If they look like they have some finish now, and especially if it looks sort of orange, that's not actually varnish; it's Cetol.

We had teak decks on our 36 Sundowner. If you scrub the decks each time you wash the boat, they should stay in acceptable shape between annual "brightenings" with a mild solution of oaxalic acid.

If the boat you are interested in has teak decks, it quite likely has some actual brightwork as well. Yeah, it is a lot of work. Our 40 Eagle has teak quarterboards and a teak cap rail, a lot less exterior teak than the Sundowner had. Not being as young and ambitious as once was, I think less teak is better.

Some will say a boat without any teak looks like a Clorox bottle. However, if the alternative is totally neglected teak decks and trim, a well kept Clorox bottle is probably more attractive.

yea, you're correct. but there is plenty of teak everywhere else & I'm not a spring chicken anymore...

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manyboats

Marin RE post #5 .... Of course. The engines are slightly different in disp but otherwise just about exactly the same. I'm sure one will never notice the difference. The biggest difference is probably the name on the valve cover ..... If they were proud enough to put one there. They didn't on my Mitsu. Could be an advantage too if the service side of the engine was on the other side. Other advantages (not so obvious) may emerge.

I was concerned about the 2 engines not being equal and one pulling more than the other creating a handling issue.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker

RTF, so direct and to the point!!!!! A VERY VERY valid point!!! Two sets of spares would suck!!!

TO answer the OP's question and as an avid Yachtworld junkie.... Marine Trader also makes a "Tradewinds" model that is mostly free of teak. Now you may find some teak on the sundeck but that is it. I personally am not a fan of buying an older boat with teak decks but this would not bother me as much as most of the decking has been covered all of it's life(by the hardtop of the sundeck). Also the Heritage East sundecks. Again, usually only the sundeck is teak. Hyatt makes a completely teak free sundeck MY and in my opinion one of the best quality Taiwanese boats. I base that opinion largely on the fact that their windows don't leak like many of the Marine Trader types. Also Jefferson makes some good boats without much teak. And while they are built in Taiwan, they are commissioned in Jefferson(ville?) Indiana. So there are a LARGE number of these boats that have spent their ENTIRE lives in fresh water... Californian made some handsome sundeck boats in the mid 80s with Good ole American craftsmanship(they truly are well built). The Californians had some teak on them but nor decks. Hatteras also has some good looking well built Sundecks although they are powered for planing performance and I do not know if that is attractive to you.

That should get ya started!!!

giving me plenty of great homework! thanks!

Marin · 01-21-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachbum29

I was concerned about the 2 engines not being equal and one pulling more than the other creating a handling issue.

Eric is most likely correct in this instance. While the American Diesel drop-in replacement for the Ford Lehman 120 was 150 hp instead of 120, and it was a currently manufactured Ford engine as opposed to the ancient Ford engine that was the base for the FL120, the two engines are similar in displacement and rpm range. So while the 150 hp engine won't be working as hard, I suspect the difference will not be seen at the prop.

If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marin

Eric is most likely correct in this instance. While the American Diesel drop-in replacement for the Ford Lehman 120 was 150 hp instead of 120, and it was a currently manufactured Ford engine as opposed to the ancient Ford engine that was the base for the FL120, the two engines are similar in displacement and rpm range. So while the 150 hp engine won't be working as hard, I suspect the difference will not be seen at the prop.

If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine.

I just gave that one a good look on my 22" hd monitor & I'm not liking what I saw. Looks like a bunch of patchwork has been done. Just gave a Hyatt 37 sundeck a quick look & that's much closer to what I'm looking for. No outside teak & centerline aft queen berth. Wife loved the flybridge lounge. But it had 300 hp cats.

Nomad Willy · 01-21-2013, 07:46 PM

Marin says;

"If you wanted both engines to be running at the same percent of load, then you'd have to re-prop the 150 hp engine to make it work harder at the same rpm as the 120 hp engine."

Who cares if one engine is burning 5% less or more fuel? The important thing is to be synced w twins ... you can buy that can't ya Marin? ......... Oh I see where you are on that (I think) ... You're thinking the boat won't go straight and of course there will be a tiny bit more thrust on one engine but I'll bet that too is/would be fly stuff.

Marin · 01-21-2013, 08:00 PM

I totally agree that running one engine under less load than the other one is no big deal. But some people on this forum--- including you I seem to recall

--- get all wrapped around the axle at the thought of an engine running at 1 percent less than what Steve D'Antonio says they're supposed to be running at.

So the different prop comment was aimed at the anal loading crowd (have at it RTF). I personally wouldn't worry about it. The engine certainly won't, at least not in this case.

RT Firefly · 01-21-2013, 08:33 PM

Greetings,

**FlyWright** · 01-21-2013, 10:03 PM

It seems to me that there are enough good boats out there with matching engines and no teak decks, that I wouldn't give the boat a second thought. Baker has put together a nice list of potential candidates.

beachbum29 · 01-21-2013, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWright

It seems to me that there are enough good boats out there with matching engines and no teak decks, that I wouldn't give the boat a second thought. Baker has put together a nice list of potential candidates.

a Hyatt 37 sundeck really caught my eye but I can only find 1 for sale. it does have the 3208's though...