Just boght a 1984 Marine Trader Labelle 43'

[markpierce]

Really, is all that extra weight (high up), boat stress, expense, and much-increased chance of fouling something worth it all?

[surveyor1]

I have an '88 NOVA 40 sundeck (avatar) with twin TAMD 41A'S 200hp.
It tops out at 3900 rpm = 14 kn.
It smokes like a bastard on startup but great otherwise.
I'm gonna install a couple wolverine pan heaters and hope that helps the smoke thing.

[koliver]

I have only seen one MT44 (or any other boat on a similar hull) equipped with passive stabilizers. That was tied up in Queen Charlotte City, Haida Gwai, where the boat was used for commercial fishing and had to go out into Hecate Straits, regardless of the weather. Any other boat similarly equipped (as far as I have seen) have been round chine hulls, and mostly commercial. We yachties just don't need them, as we have the sense to stay tied up when it gets that snotty out.
My own (same hull as MT, so I can chime in here) will smarten up and stop rolling if I change course 15 degrees. I wouldn't have poles and birds just to avoid having to tack across the straits.
When I was a kid, I crossed Hecate straits in a fishing troller, and to make some time, we would pull in the birds and allowed the boat to roll 45 degrees to each side. Fat lot of good they did when we were in a hurry to get to sheltered waters. While fishing, they were in fairly constant use, but at trolling speed the effect on boat speed wasn't a problem.
Friend of mine had them on his converted fishboat. Always in the way, especially when he tried to raft up with plastic boats, and he hardly ever deployed them.
Unless you are going to do a whole lot of fishing, get rid of them.

[Marin]

markpierce wrote:

Really, is all that extra weight (high up), boat stress, expense, and much-increased chance of fouling something worth it all?

The people I have met who have them on their boats say they are worth their weight in gold in the difference it makes in the rides of their boats.* Obviously the boat needs to have the proper structure to support them.* But I've met over the years owners of Nordhavns, converted fishboats, one GB owner, and several other boats, custom and production, that had passive stabilizers and the owners all said they were great.* They are particularly popular with the owners of converted fish boats, especially ex-salmon trollers, since their boats have the required rigging to support,deploy, and*stow*them already.

All the passive systems I've seen on boats stow well*inboard of the side of the hull, so there has been nothing sticking out to interfere with docking.* And passive stabilizers are considerably cheaper than good active stabilizers, particulary if one's boat is configured to accomodate them relatively easily.*

From all accounts I've heard, active stabilizers do a more effective job of damping roll.* But they stick out all the time unless you have retractable ones, and are way expensive.* Plus it's another system to mainain with pumps, actuating mechanisms, etc.* Birds and outriggers just sit there, either deployed or stowed.

Good system, and if we had a boat that could accomodate them, we'd have and use them as a GB has nasty roll characteristics when the waves kick up.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 17th of January 2011 09:26:43 PM

[Carey]

markpierce wrote:

Really, is all that extra weight (high up), boat stress, expense, and much-increased chance of fouling something worth it all?

I'm not all that hot on running a pair of fish while cruising, even though I'm sure they help, but I really like the idea of a couple flopper stoppers while anchored.

*

[7tiger7]

Well,
I'll give the stabilizers a try and let you guys know.
Just out of curiosity...
If some of you could please see the pictures of the boat again, and give me your opinion of roughly how much you think she is worth... I don't want to disclose the price I paid until I hear some thoughts on what is a fair price for her.
She has 3,500 hours or so on her volvos, an Onan 7'5kw, radar with twin plotters, several VHF, sounders, about 12 different bags/boxes of tools (manual and power), several anchors, windlass, about 12 golf cart batteries, AirCon, Heat, Autopilot, inverter, etc (all electronics are no more than about 5 years old).

Thoughts?

[Carey]

7tiger7 wrote:

Well,
I'll give the stabilizers a try and let you guys know.
Just out of curiosity...
If some of you could please see the pictures of the boat again, and give me your opinion of roughly how much you think she is worth... I don't want to disclose the price I paid until I hear some thoughts on what is a fair price for her.
She has 3,500 hours or so on her volvos, an Onan 7'5kw, radar with twin plotters, several VHF, sounders, about 12 different bags/boxes of tools (manual and power), several anchors, windlass, about 12 golf cart batteries, AirCon, Heat, Autopilot, inverter, etc (all electronics are no more than about 5 years old).

Thoughts?

Don't hate me now. Remember that you asked. If you got her for $150k, you stole it, and if you paid $200, who am I to say it's too much. She really looks good. I am not a broker, but a full time shopper, so don't take my pricing to heart. Congratulations!!! We really won't know how well you did for about twenty years, when you can do a long term evaluation. The important thing is that you are comfortable with what you paid, and that you enjoy your time on her. In the end, the best day you have with this or any boat will be the day you sell it.*

*

[Woodsong]

$150k to $200k Carey? Please call me- I have a lot of boats I can sell you!

7tiger- it is hard to place a valuation from the pics. However, it looks like you have some light cosmetic stuff- exterior teak refinishing, maybe the salon floors refinished, etc. Good news is I don't see any major water damage from leaks on the interior and she looks overall to be in pretty good shape. Ask prices for your make/year/model right now are between $79k and $149k. With all older boats, condition and maintenance plays a major factor in valuation. I'll send you an PM here via this site with some sold info.

Carey- PLEASE call me- I really can sell you a lot of boats I think!

[Carey]

Woodsong wrote:

$150k to $200k Carey? Please call me- I have a lot of boats I can sell you!

7tiger- it is hard to place a valuation from the pics. However, it looks like you have some light cosmetic stuff- exterior teak refinishing, maybe the salon floors refinished, etc. Good news is I don't see any major water damage from leaks on the interior and she looks overall to be in pretty good shape. Ask prices for your make/year/model right now are between $79k and $149k. With all older boats, condition and maintenance plays a major factor in valuation. I'll send you an PM here via this site with some sold info.

Carey- PLEASE call me- I really can sell you a lot of boats I think!

TonyTry to understand that I wasn't putting a value on your boat , but what appeared to be a really nice boat in top condition, showing nothing negative that I noticed from the photos. I would pay $150k for that boat if it showed as well in person, and a survey supported my beliefs. But, as I first said, I am not a professional, and have only looked at a lot of boat ads over the years.


Those are West Coast prices by the way.*

*



-- Edited by Carey on Tuesday 18th of January 2011 12:02:49 PM

[7tiger7]

Hmm...
I'm tempted to disclose the price... but want to gain a better feel for what would be a "normal" price, what would be a "great price" and what would be a "steal"...

Under $150? Fair?
Under $100? Good?
Under $50? Great?
Under $35? Steal?

[Woodsong]

7tiger- check your private mail inbox here on the site- sent you direct sales info. I can post here if you want but thought I'd let you make that call.

[7tiger7]

Thanks will check my PM mailbox.
Cheers
Phillip

[skipperdude]

I wanted to chime in here on the Para vane stabilizers.

I would never give them up.

*You don't have to be a commercial fisherman to get caught out in the nasties.

Remember the boat can always take more than you can.

If you notice most of the commercial fishermen have them. These are guys and gal's who make there living on the water. They have to know something.

I use mine when ever the weather gets uncomfortable.
But hey if you don't mind bouncing around from side to side yank'em off.

SD

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** 7t7...Congrat's.**If you have bought your boat, are happy with her, have NOT mortgaged yourself to the hilt, and plan on enjoying and are looking forward to the experience of boating and all that it encompasses you have not payed too much.* Why are you worried you might have payed too much.* Hopefully you did your homework and made a RATIONAL decision about the purchase.* That's in the past...enjoy.
** As to the stabilisation set up.* I agree with some of the posters.* Leave things as they are for the time being.* For that matter leave MOST things as they are for a period of time until you decide what to do.* Marriage has to be eased into.**You'll learn to live with her including all the warts and wrinkles (not that I could see any from the pictures).*

[Egregious]

I agree totally with RT.* If you paid what you feel is fair, then go enjoy her!* I probably could have gotten our boat or a similar boat for less than what I paid, but what I ended up paying was within the target range I had set before I began to search.* So I got a great boat at the price I was willing to pay...*

One of the boats I was really interested in and nearly made an offer on had paravane stabilizers and flopper stoppers.* Also a fuel polishing system.* At the time I thought both of those features were real positives.* Now that I have had our Monk for a while and have been on a few trips I have realized that for our ICW cruising we would not have needed stabilizers, and since the PO replaced the fuel tanks and they are reletively new, the polishing system on our boat anyway, isn't needed either.* I guess it depends on where you plan to go...

Now, as far as fuel polishing goes, I'm going to have to go with the Marin method.* Of course he hasn't had any problems!* Since he is always running from a day*tank and rotating the other tanks he'll never ever have a problem as long as he keeps using the boat on a regular basis.* That way he is solving the problem at the root, which is dirty tanks instead of the symptom which is dirty fuel.

Sheesh, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Marin in writing...

[Nomad Willy]

Rob should be on here but in his absence I'll post light comment. Have you read Alaska Blues ? It's a wonderful story about a fisherman and his girlfriend through one season in SE Alaska.The first thing they did whenever it got rough was to deploy the stabilizers "fish" as they're called in Alaska. But before you use them in anything but easy going I'd do some homework and find out how they should be set up and deployed. For example if they aren't deep enough in very rough going*the fish*can come out of the water and come right through the side of your cabin like a missile. Some run w chain and some w cable. The poles should be aft of a-midships where the boat moves up and down the least. Used properly they are a great safety and comfort feature.

[Marin]

7tiger7 wrote:

What is Marin's fuel polishing method?

Our fuel polishing method is we don't polish the fuel.* What Woody is referring to is our tank setup which was installed by the previous owner of our boat.* There is a pair of 85 gallon saddle tanks on each side of the engine room.* Each tank gravity-transfers via manual valves from the lowest point in the tank into a 60 gallon day tank in the bilge. The day tank feeds the engines and generator from the lowest point in the tank.* Total capacity is 400 gallons.

We cycle the tank usage, so one opposing pair of saddle tanks is always empty unless we are going to take a longer cruise in which case we fill everything.* We use up the fuel in one pair of tanks (by transferring it as needed into the day tank) and when that pair is almost empty we fill the other pair.* After completely draining the first pair we leave them empty and draw from the second pair until they're almost empty, then fill the first pair, and so on.

We use the boat year round, winds permitting.* This fuel management process minimizes the time fuel sits in the tanks, and the fact that all the tanks drain or feed from their lowest points means that any water or crud in the tanks should go out with the fuel and thus be filtered out.* When a tank is empty, it's empty.

The fuel system is such so the engines can be valved to pull directly from the saddle tanks on their side of the boat but we have never run it this way.* The return fuel from the engines is valved so it can be sent back either to the day tank (our "default" setting) or to one of the saddle tanks.

So we "polish" our fuel by not having all that much of it on the boat at any given time, and virtually no fuel is left in the bottom of a tank when it's empty.

[7tiger7]

Ah I see.
Makes sense. I need to get back up to the boat in when the weather gets warmer (we've had snow here every other day), she is 3.5 hours away in Maine. Once I get up there for a weekend I'll investigate the fuel set up further.
I've had several smaller boats in the past, the largest a Catalina 30 sailboat - so there is quite a bit for me to learn in regards to system on this boat (multiple fuel tanks, generator, A/C - heat, multiple heads, etc).

Any good books on the subject...?

[Marin]

7tiger7 wrote:

Any good books on the subject...?

There are probably a ton of them.* The only "how to" boating books I've* read are Earl Hinz's "The Complete Book of* Anchoring and Mooring,"* "The Radar Book" and "Local Knowledge: A Skipper's Reference, Tacoma to Ketchikan" both by Kevin Monahan, and parts of Nigel Calder's "Marine Diesel Engines" and "How to Read a Nautical Chart."* We've also got a couple of Northwest weather books on board.

Other than that everything we've learned about this kind of boat and boating is from doing it, working on it, talking to shipwrights, diesel mechanics, and electronics and electrical vendors in our marina, and experienced local boaters like Carey of this forum.

*

[marinetrader]

Congrats...I have a 40 Labelle and love it. Remove the insulation covering those fuel tanks and check the fuel tanks tops for rust. Make sure your windows do not leak; Marine Trading was bad about leaving caulking out....