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10-31-2017, 05:06 AM
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#61
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,007
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Goes to show perspective. Both owners of the assistance towing company I work love the old Shamrocks. I am still running one after 15 years, but only part time now.
Have a fleet of 4 of them covering one of the companies largest franchises. One guy still has a shell of one on his lot, just in case.
My comment is always ...the shamrock is like a swiss army knife, not great at anything, but good at anything.
I will say the original owner did put 454s and oversized 4 bladed props on them. Slowed them down a bit, but man they could dig a boat out and pull like crazy.. 
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10-31-2017, 06:45 AM
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#62
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 16
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operator error ?
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10-31-2017, 07:08 AM
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#63
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Guru
City: Chicago/Montrose Harbor
Vessel Name: Sea Jay
Vessel Model: Non Trawler ;-) Ask me if it matters LOL
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 507
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On Facebook they said there was already a ton of water in her bilge and it moved up to the bow in that one wave.
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10-31-2017, 07:13 AM
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#64
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 7,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmarr
On Facebook they said there was already a ton of water in her bilge and it moved up to the bow in that one wave.
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Yup and hello free surface effect. The bow did dig in before going under.
Isn't there something about pumping the bilges before entering a harbor?
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The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
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10-31-2017, 07:29 AM
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#65
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmarr
On Facebook they said there was already a ton of water in her bilge and it moved up to the bow in that one wave.
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Does it say anything about the cause of a ton of water in her bilge?
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10-31-2017, 08:49 AM
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#66
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Guru
City: Satsuma FL/Daytona Beach Shores
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,306
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Buffalo Bluff Light 28
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10-31-2017, 09:12 AM
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#67
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,159
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A scenario where something like a Seabrake might have been useful, if deployed early enough:
https://www.burkemarine.com.au/pages/seabrake
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"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
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10-31-2017, 09:23 AM
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#68
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 17,838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
I guess the trick is to not find yourself in that position..... I'm thinking if he slowed down...the wave behind him would lift his stern further....if she sped up, he'd drive the bow into the wave....if you turn, you could get rolled..... I think his fate was sealed before the video even started
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Ben,
“Not finding yourself in that position”
Indeed one needs to climb up on the next wave far enough so the wave aft dosn’t threaten your boat attitude to the extent that you get pooped or (in this case) get your stern high up so your bow goes below the surface. One needs to look aft more than fwd. But most are wide eyed looking fwd so the wave comming up aft can have it’s way with you and your boat.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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10-31-2017, 09:53 AM
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#69
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,057
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Big waves move faster than small waves. Gots to keep very aware of what is behind you. A big one can sneak up on you while you have the bow on a smaller one.
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10-31-2017, 10:52 AM
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#70
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,142
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Greetings,
Mr. MM. Interesting unit that seabrake BUT I think IF this vessel was carrying that much water/load, such a device would keep the stern lower causing a poop condition particularly IF it was water in the bilge and the free surface effect, previously mentioned, took effect.
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RTF
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10-31-2017, 11:08 AM
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#71
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,793
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The Sebastian one isn't even in bad conditions. Just shows how even skilled boaters can make one small mistake and find themselves in that situation. Also, shows the risk of towing.
Kudos to FWC and others involved in the rescue.
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10-31-2017, 11:11 AM
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#72
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 7,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM
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Hmmmm, no prices posted in the URL.
__________________
The meek will inherit the earth but, the brave will inherit the seas.
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10-31-2017, 11:37 AM
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#73
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Guru
City: Palm Coast, FL
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies
I believe it was a Shamrock.
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Reported as a 26 stapleton, 9ft beam. But i’ve never heard of them.
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10-31-2017, 11:50 AM
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#74
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Guru
City: Out Cruisin'
Vessel Name: SCOUT
Vessel Model: Great Harbour N37
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diver dave
Reported as a 26 stapleton, 9ft beam. But i’ve never heard of them.
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Found a pic of the bow of one of those online...
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10-31-2017, 11:51 AM
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#75
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diver dave
Reported as a 26 stapleton, 9ft beam. But i’ve never heard of them.
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Yea, I have basically the Shamrock 22 in that picture and that didn’t look like my boat to me.
The Shamrock does some odd things at times, but she has tremendous bow rise if you push the throttle a little, and that’s a tall bow. Good analogy with the Swiss Army knife, too.
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10-31-2017, 02:55 PM
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#76
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Senior Member
City: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Vessel Model: I have keys to lots of boats...
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 438
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Soon after getting my captains license in 1973 I ran a 55' steel crew boat with a pair of Detroit Diesel 12V 71 engines in and out of that same inlet for two summers. I was taking crew to a dredge off the beach for beach re-nourishment, four trips a day, so 8 trips through Jupiter Inlet each day.
The Atlantic Coast pilot then stated that it was not a navigable inlet and there was a big sign post on the ICW warning not to use the inlet. I knew where the shoals were and where the waves would build, but if there was any kind of a big swell I would go south to the Lake Worth (Palm Beach) Inlet. That added a lot of time to the trip but I always has passengers and never wanted to take a chance. The dredge guys would complain about the extra time but none ever had to swim to the beach.
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Tucker Fallon CPYB
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10-31-2017, 03:27 PM
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#77
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Veteran Member
City: Vero Beach
Vessel Name: Lucky Dog
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 93
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That Stapelton bow does not have any reserve buoyancy, not enough volume. By the time that wide flare touches the water, it is already too late.
The bow volume may have been a factor too.
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10-31-2017, 03:31 PM
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#78
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Mr. MM. Interesting unit that seabrake BUT I think IF this vessel was carrying that much water/load, such a device would keep the stern lower causing a poop condition particularly IF it was water in the bilge and the free surface effect, previously mentioned, took effect.
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Hi RT,
My thinking was that if he'd used something like a Seabrake earlier, once things started getting gnarly, he might not have shipped so much water before entering the area where he sank. The device appears to allow controlled forward progress downwind in following seas without broaching, and if set up properly, I don't think it would hold the stern too low either.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
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10-31-2017, 04:12 PM
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#79
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,007
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I see the seabrake very useful in open water seas or large long period swells breaking in an inlet.
The short steep chop like in the video and what I am used to in eastern US breaking inlets under most conditions, I would not use any sort of drogue. I might/would on a boat I was towing though.
Unless I missed something, in the video, the wave crest separation wasnt much longer than the boat length.
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11-03-2017, 11:33 PM
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#80
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Member
City: PBG
Vessel Name: TurboBlue
Vessel Model: Kawasaki ZRX1200R Turbo
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
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I took the video...
Just letting you know that I took the video...
Saying I've been busy since the video got Out There is an understatement 
I have no idea when I can make it back here to answer any questions so I'll tell you some things now...
There's a LOT of conjecture and misinformation all over the place...
No I do not go there to Fly just when it's rough...
I actually went there that day an hour before High Tide wanting to get video of Awesome Blue Water (plus boats like attached pictures) but the water wasn't clear/blue so yes I did stay until the tide was running out (with 20+mph wind coming in from east)...
Drone Cameras don't record sound so only the people close by (like me) could hear the engine...
I heard him working the throttle trying his best not to let this happen = he was Off-Throttle before he got pushed into the wave.
The waves were very Fluid (no pun intended) = Wave Frequency (distance) vs Boat Length and Shape were "constantly changing"...
After watching the Full Size HD video Several Times (wave frequency and morphing) IMO Lady Luck wasn't with him at that exact moment...
The man has been doing this for over 30 years so any statements that he had no idea what he was doing are unfounded...
Everything is much sharper and larger on the Full Size HD video which I'll be posting on my YouTube ASAP, but just like not knowing when I can come back here to reply, I can't say when the video will be edited and up 
I will do my best to share it here but if you want to be notified when it's up you should go to my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCZ...PKxwoU1aPnuijg and Subscribe (click on little bell at upper right after subscribing to get noitified)...
 
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