Jacksonville, FL Proposed Anchoring Restrictions

[CaptTom]

I think the Sunset Lake example is a good one to bring up, because (from what I've just now read) it appears to have been a worst-case situation. Looking on the chart, it's abundantly clear to any thinking person that liveaboards would be unwelcome there.

Which brings me back to the many simple, common-sense solutions which we've all talked about here and just about anywhere else cruisers congregate.

Anchoring as a part of navigation is totally different from anchoring because you can't afford a roof over your head. There are so many ways you can restrict the latter without impacting the former. Time limits or navigability requirements come to mind.

I like the idea of working WITH the shoreside communities on solutions to our mutual problem. As a transient just passing through, I wouldn't want to anchor in Sunset Lake the way it was described, either. I've seen the derelict and abandoned boats along the ICW and other places in the South, and I agree there's a problem. Maybe if the communities on shore hear us saying that, they'll see us as allies instead of the enemy.

 

[BandB]

I think the Sunset Lake example is a good one to bring up, because (from what I've just now read) it appears to have been a worst-case situation. Looking on the chart, it's abundantly clear to any thinking person that liveaboards would be unwelcome there.

Which brings me back to the many simple, common-sense solutions which we've all talked about here and just about anywhere else cruisers congregate.

Anchoring as a part of navigation is totally different from anchoring because you can't afford a roof over your head. There are so many ways you can restrict the latter without impacting the former. Time limits or navigability requirements come to mind.

I like the idea of working WITH the shoreside communities on solutions to our mutual problem. As a transient just passing through, I wouldn't want to anchor in Sunset Lake the way it was described, either. I've seen the derelict and abandoned boats along the ICW and other places in the South, and I agree there's a problem. Maybe if the communities on shore hear us saying that, they'll see us as allies instead of the enemy.

It's not as complicated as it's typically made. Unfortunately, we need to look at rules simply because there are many who won't use common sense or be considerate of others. I think sometimes those on sites like TF don't see the need because they are good boaters and are not part of the problem at all. The extreme land owners are those who don't boat, know nothing about cruising. So, it starts with some education too. One simple start would be boaters and non-boaters riding around a bit and just identifying ones they see as problematic. I bet they'd agree on 95% of the boats and then it's just the other 5% they'd discuss.

Oddly, we don't really have many issues in Fort Lauderdale or much conflict. Oh yes, we do have someone here and there to protest anchoring, but they can't really point to problems. I think Lake Sylvia is a bit much but it's always been that way and I don't hear homeowners there complaining. They just want some to anchor better. I looked one day and there were 48 boats anchored. However, not a single one was withing 100' of a dock or home property and may have all been 150'. They did have an incident about 4 years ago when a tornado came through and two boats sank. Fortunately, those on board weren't hurt and the mood was caring not anger toward them.

 

[slowgoesit]

Perhaps someone might sponsor a meeting with the homeowners involved to discuss it. Better yet, hold it near one of the areas in dispute. First part of the meeting in a venue next to a dock, 2nd half, (number of attendee's permitting) adjourn to someones really nice boat and tour the area in question from the water side. 3rd, and last part of agenda, return to first venue and try and get some common ground based on what was observed. Pie in the sky? Maybe, but it's worth a try.

 

[Group9]

It relates to what I saw as you disparaging the rich NY guy whose name you don't know and in some way the residents of that area who continued to fight to get something done. I think you used a very poor example in warning about the continued battle over anchoring. If I was fighting anchoring restrictions in Jacksonville, I would not use Sunset Lake as a reference point because if Jacksonville's issue was anything like Sunset Lake then they'd probably get a law restricting.

I see Jacksonville more like Fort Lauderdale where a few people, some of whom don't even have waterfront homes, continue to every few years campaign for restrictions, regardless of how many times they fail.

Your point that it will resurface is absolutely valid. I just didn't feel like the situation you compared to was comparable.

I never said he wasn't good at getting what he wanted. Just the opposite. I just don't like it.

 

[BandB]

I never said he wasn't good at getting what he wanted. Just the opposite. I just don't like it.

And what is it you don't like about Sunset Lake restrictions? On what is it that you disagree with the owner on?

Don't lump all opposition together. We live on the water and have never proposed any anchoring restrictions but had we lived on Sunset Lake we would have felt differently.

Sunset Lake is just not a good example for the anti-anchoring legislation group to cite as an example. Nor is it a good example for the pro-anchoring legislation group to cite. It's just not anywhere in the norm. It is perhaps an example that indicates the need for better state regulations so special local regulations are not required, but a better state wide program isn't forthcoming so Sunset Lake required it's own.

I used earlier some examples in discussing distances of land restrictions, lot sizes, and distances. Let me throw another land law example into this. Most residential areas have some regulations. You can't build a junk yard on an empty lot between two houses. You can't have an old shack, falling apart, fire hazard. There are codes and covenants. You can have a temporary shed for construction but it must be temporary. Homeless can't erect shanty houses on vacant lots. Yet, that's exactly what had happened in Sunset Lake in the form of derelict boats stacked up there.

Before I formed an opinion initially on Sunset Lake, I went there and looked. I didn't form it from a distance. As I see no such problem in Fort Lauderdale, I didn't know what the fuss was about, but once I saw it, I was appalled and fully understood.

 

[Blissboat]

BandB wrote, "Most residential areas have some regulations. You can't build a junk yard on an empty lot between two houses. You can't have an old shack, falling apart, fire hazard. There are codes and covenants."

BandB raises a good point. As a society, the United States made up its mind nearly a hundred years ago that land-use regulations are okay (see the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Euclid v. Ambler, 1926). Most of us who are boaters, me included, see being out on the water as our preferred refuge from an increasingly crowded and complicated world ashore. But in the twenty-first century, our waterways are increasingly crowded and complicated.

The law changes and evolves in response to the needs of the people who establish it, and we may be nearing a maritime Euclid versus Ambler moment.

 

[Group9]

And what is it you don't like about Sunset Lake restrictions? On what is it that you disagree with the owner on?

Don't lump all opposition together. We live on the water and have never proposed any anchoring restrictions but had we lived on Sunset Lake we would have felt differently.

Sunset Lake is just not a good example for the anti-anchoring legislation group to cite as an example. Nor is it a good example for the pro-anchoring legislation group to cite. It's just not anywhere in the norm. It is perhaps an example that indicates the need for better state regulations so special local regulations are not required, but a better state wide program isn't forthcoming so Sunset Lake required it's own.

I used earlier some examples in discussing distances of land restrictions, lot sizes, and distances. Let me throw another land law example into this. Most residential areas have some regulations. You can't build a junk yard on an empty lot between two houses. You can't have an old shack, falling apart, fire hazard. There are codes and covenants. You can have a temporary shed for construction but it must be temporary. Homeless can't erect shanty houses on vacant lots. Yet, that's exactly what had happened in Sunset Lake in the form of derelict boats stacked up there.

Before I formed an opinion initially on Sunset Lake, I went there and looked. I didn't form it from a distance. As I see no such problem in Fort Lauderdale, I didn't know what the fuss was about, but once I saw it, I was appalled and fully understood.

Everyone has something they want, that if granted, would restrict the rights of everyone else.