Italy seizes Russian super yacht.

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Greetings,
Mr. SC. "What do they do with a $???M boat?" Sell it for scrap. The Italians have no use for it other than making a point.
 
StarChaser said:
But the real question is..... What do they do with a $???M boat? Sell it? How? Auction it off? EBay?

I'm just curious really, Fugly boat with a MASSIVE maintenance bill.

Star.
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We're many years from anyone losing ownership. That's a long, difficult process. It's compounded by who would want to buy if they ever were sold, especially with the debt that will be attached. Typically, they are auctioned by luxury auctioneers. Here is a current auction of a 120 meter yacht. It's supposed to end the end of this month, but often terms allow additional bids after. I don't know the terms of this one.
 
I'm not sure I totally agree with the seizure of "private citizens" assets in a situation as this. While I totally feel the Russian Govt. should loose any and all assets that are under foreign control, I believe this is but a way to pressure Putin through that part of Russian society. Is it fair to punish a private citizen that may or may not support the actions his (or her) government has taken?. I'm sure there are folks here that wouldn't have been happy to loose assets to a foreign power due to some of the things the last administration pulled.
Don't think for a minute I support ANYTHING the Russian govt. or military has done to Ukraine, I think NATO should intervene and run them back across the border. Are some of the Russian yacht owners bad guys and have played a role in the invasion?, possibly. I think countries are reacting and seizing soft targets so if doesn't appear they are just sitting on their thumbs.
HOLLYWOOD
 
hollywood8118 said:
I'm not sure I totally agree with the seizure of "private citizens" assets in a situation as this. While I totally feel the Russian Govt. should loose any and all assets that are under foreign control, I believe this is but a way to pressure Putin through that part of Russian society. Is it fair to punish a private citizen that may or may not support the actions his (or her) government has taken?. I'm sure there are folks here that wouldn't have been happy to loose assets to a foreign power due to some of the things the last administration pulled.
Don't think for a minute I support ANYTHING the Russian govt. or military has done to Ukraine, I think NATO should intervene and run them back across the border. Are some of the Russian yacht owners bad guys and have played a role in the invasion?, possibly. I think countries are reacting and seizing soft targets so if doesn't appear they are just sitting on their thumbs.
HOLLYWOOD
Click to expand...

First, assets have been frozen but not taken at this point.

However, I think if you'll look at the businesses these individuals head, you'll understand why they're targeted. Hand picked to head weapons manufacturing, previous official under Putin and leading advisor and confidant. These are not just "private citizens." In fact, with the length of time Putin has been in power, I doubt you'll find a Russian Oligarch without extremely strong ties. Now, today, some are claiming not and today he also turned on them with some strong rhetoric.


'I do not judge those with villas in Miami or the French Riviera. Or who can't get by without oysters or foie gras or so-called 'gender freedoms.' The problem is they mentally exist there, and not here, with our people, with Russia,' he said. 'The West will try to bet on the so-called fifth column, on traitors... to divide our society.. to provoke civil confrontation... to strive to achieve its aim. And there is one aim - the destruction of Russia.'

He claimed that the conflict was merely a pretext for the West to impose sanctions because 'they just don't want a strong and sovereign Russia'.

We will spit these traitors out like midges that flew into our mouths" he declared. They live with their villas and their yachts in 'Monaco and Miami' and 'cannot get by without their caviar, oysters and gender freedoms' (there's a combination for you) but their hearts are there 'not here in Russia'.
​
 
Some boat was sized everywhere in the world and generally the situation of the boat getting worst and worst...
For example Blue Shadow was sized in Italy and the tribunal made auction and auction and during all this year the boat ( I have lot of another example in Italy)
Or in Spain the motor catamaran was sized and same year after year ...even grass growth up on the deck...
Another one in USA don't remember the name, +50m alloy boat sized in Florida area, the decoration inside was good for someone like Idi Amin Dada (may it was the reason of the sized because protected animal inside) became also near a wreck
Tangier motor sailor sized by US custom and ... for year
Surprise 58' sized by French custom take rain, rot during year before auction
 
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hollywood8118 said:
Is it fair to punish a private citizen that may or may not support the actions his (or her) government has taken?.

I'm sure there are folks here that wouldn't have been happy to loose assets to a foreign power due to some of the things the last administration pulled.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately private citizens are often victims of gov’t power-plays. Think of all those tourists who get thrown in jails around the world and used as pawns during negotiations.

Heck, I myself got deported from Syria because of gov’t politics once, and then almost lost my life (an important asset) another time for similar reasons.
 
I guess Russia should be freezing all the Ronald McDonald, Starbucks and the like.
Anything the west has a finger in.
Fairs fair

Play stupid games
Win stupid prizes
 
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You are right

Simi 60 said:
I guess Russia should be freezing all the Ronald McDonald, Starbucks and the like.
Anything the west has a finger in.
Fairs fair

Play stupid games
Win stupid prizes
Click to expand...


Always we ( USA or/and France ) got involved in a foreign country it became worst and worst for the people of this countries and later for us also.
(Libye, Syrie, Afganistan, Vietnam, Serbia, Mali,...etc etc)


Always we had the same "official" motivation : democratie, human right etc

But in some another place....silence : Chypre, Tibet, Yemen... etc


Only one thing to do : stay far from all this ..s...t :eek:


Positive point the second hand luxury car was cheap in Ukraine, and they will be cheaper, for example my friend have few car Bentley Continental, 2 Cayenne one prepared by Mansory, bigest 4x4 Mercedes prepared by a Brabus, ...and few days ago he can escape from Ukraine only with her Hummer and a trailer.
Not sure their car, their house, their flat , their factories will waiting his return ...
 
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Simi 60 said:
I guess Russia should be freezing all the Ronald McDonald, Starbucks and the like.
Anything the west has a finger in.
Fairs fair

Play stupid games
Win stupid prizes
Click to expand...

Russia is seizing or has seized something like 10-20 billion in leased airline aircraft already.

I am sure they are playing along......
 
Peter B said:
I photographed that yacht off the Cote D'Azure back in October 2018, while being hosted over there by a TF member who lives in the region. Not the nicest of lines, I do admit, but no doubt very functional. The real irony is the fact that it's sail power optional, but the cost of fuel probably not a big factor to the owner - now past owner - of the time..?

The vessel at the top is another super-yacht, seized by the French it was moored at Antibes at the time.
Click to expand...

I believe Dilbar (the largest superyacht by GT) has been seized at the Lürssen yard in Hamburg. Crew has been fired and Lürssen are currently providing a small crew to maintain it.
 
hollywood8118 said:
... Is it fair to punish a private citizen that may or may not support the actions his (or her) government has taken?...
HOLLYWOOD
Click to expand...
Or you could ask," is it fair for country1 to punish the citizens of country2 because of the extraordinary and bizarre views of the President of country1?"
A country can start a war, but where it goes afterwards may not be within the control of the initiator.
Sanctioning Putin`s oligarch associates is a way of getting at Putin. Is it justified? If, while the western world halfheartedly supports Ukraine, it helps stop the carnage in Ukraine, isn`t it worthwhile.

It`s a war. Maybe it`s already WW3.
 
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CharlieO. said:
They should use them to deliver aid and transport refugees out.
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Excellent idea! If not for lodging and whatever else they can be used for.



As far as the legality who knows, I have always operated under the assumption that ownership of anything is artificial. Try not paying your taxes and see how long you get to live in your home.
 
ok, I finally pulled up the pic. Wow, I am hesitant to call any boat ugly....buuuut......
 
BruceK said:
If, while the western world half halfheartedly supports Ukraine, it helps stop the carnage in Ukraine, isn`t it worthwhile.
Click to expand...

That's a slippery slope. If right and wrong are decided by whether you believe in the effect or not, what happens when someone who has different beliefs than you do is in control ?

A good parallel would be when a person gets arrested. If a guy is guilty, is it ok to search his house without a warrant, deny him a lawyer,etc ?

I wholeheartedly agree that what Russia is doing is a crime against humanity, but I never want to subscribe to the idea that the ends justify the means when it comes to finding a balance between individual rights and government over reach.
 
Seizing assets is a pretty slippery slope.

What US assets are in Russia? How many US citizens?

One of these days this will be over and everyone will want to kiss and make up.

Breaking financial links, as has been done, will have a long lasting effect that reduces the dollar as a reserve currency, and reduce the use of the dollar as the key trading currency.

Personally, I think civil asset forfeiture within the US is an awful travesty that is abused. No crime need ever be presented to any court, let alone a conviction. Back in the day when China was first opening up the fear of going there to do business was the basic lack of property rights. We need some speed bumps on this stuff. Some rules of the road that are much tighter than what we have now, which isn't much. I get it that everyone wants to punish Russia, me too, but cooler heads have to consider consequences.
 
They should be confiscating it just because it's too ugly to sail!
 
A little perspective. Up here, there are several "Russian" yachts in the summer. Get to close and burly guys with weapons appear on deck. As for the impact on the loss of these assets on these guys, with a net worth of $16.4 to $29 billion, the yacht of $600 million is about 2 to 3.5% of their net wealth.

In real world term, if you have a net worth of $500,000, your equivalent loss would be between $10,000 and $17,500. It would bite but not that big a deal. Make it a million and still not a big percentage.


In my next life, I picking wealthier parents.
 
Raduran said:
A little perspective. Up here, there are several "Russian" yachts in the summer. Get to close and burly guys with weapons appear on deck. As for the impact on the loss of these assets on these guys, with a net worth of $16.4 to $29 billion, the yacht of $600 million is about 2 to 3.5% of their net wealth.

In real world term, if you have a net worth of $500,000, your equivalent loss would be between $10,000 and $17,500. It would bite but not that big a deal. Make it a million and still not a big percentage.


In my next life, I picking wealthier parents.
Click to expand...

Or side with the right Oligarch. There's a belief Putin may be the wealthiest person in the world, or may have been before this. Yet, Russia accounts for less than 2% of the world's GDP, so largely a non-factor except in a few rare areas. Incredibly disproportionate wealth. By comparison, China has wealthy persons but they do have 18% of the global GDP.

On average boats, the loss of the entire Russian market wouldn't mean anything, but on megayachts it's a huge impact on the market.
 
Let change the words a bit.

Oligarchs is a modern term for members of the Court who are serving the King, aka, Putin.

The Court serves and supports the King and wants to be rewarded for that service. The problem is, the closer one gets to the King, the higher the reward but higher the risk. This can get you killed because of jealousy from other members of Court or if the King feels you are a threat. The court serves the King and executes his orders. Nothing new here but the terms being used.

The King and Court orbit each other with a mixture of mutual support, fear, and attraction to power and wealth. If the orbit is disturb bad things happen.

Surprisingly, air traffic in Russia, including private planes, is still being tracked and can be seen on public sources.:socool:

A few days ago, a bunch of private jets left Moscow at about the same time and flew to the Middle East. :whistling: This raises some interesting questions.

  • Did Putin, aka the King, allow members of his court to fly their jets out of Russia?
  • Or did the Court just decide to mass exit their planes without Putin knowing?
  • Why did these planes go to the Middle East?
There is no information if the Court left on the planes or stayed behind, but my guess is that the Court stayed and maybe family members were on the planes. If members of the Court or their families left Russia, that is a sign...

One idea is that the planes were flown to a country that is not hitting Russia with sanctions and that the planes would be reregistered to hide ownership. Is it really possible to reregister a plane so that it can then fly into the US or EU countries?

If the planes cannot be easily hidden via registration changes, why fly to the middle east...

Later,
Dan
 
Your "change the words a bit"

dannc said:
Let change the words a bit.

Oligarchs is a modern term for members of the Court who are serving the King, aka, Putin.

The Court serves and supports the King and wants to be rewarded for that service. The problem is, the closer one gets to the King, the higher the reward but higher the risk. This can get you killed because of jealousy from other members of Court or if the King feels you are a threat. The court serves the King and executes his orders. Nothing new here but the terms being used.

The King and Court orbit each other with a mixture of mutual support, fear, and attraction to power and wealth. If the orbit is disturb bad things happen.

Surprisingly, air traffic in Russia, including private planes, is still being tracked and can be seen on public sources.:socool:

A few days ago, a bunch of private jets left Moscow at about the same time and flew to the Middle East. :whistling: This raises some interesting questions.

  • Did Putin, aka the King, allow members of his court to fly their jets out of Russia?
  • Or did the Court just decide to mass exit their planes without Putin knowing?
  • Why did these planes go to the Middle East?
There is no information if the Court left on the planes or stayed behind, but my guess is that the Court stayed and maybe family members were on the planes. If members of the Court or their families left Russia, that is a sign...

One idea is that the planes were flown to a country that is not hitting Russia with sanctions and that the planes would be reregistered to hide ownership. Is it really possible to reregister a plane so that it can then fly into the US or EU countries?

If the planes cannot be easily hidden via registration changes, why fly to the middle east...

Later,
Dan
Click to expand...


Is valid for all the world countries...just change the word a bit :)


For the plane I am not sure plane can't "disappear" and change

registration If you make some research on the net you could find this story of a military helicopter in Ukraine who "disappear" and fly outside Ukraine under civilian registration....Or an over example of one fleet of airplane who came in Ukraine to maintenance and when it was finish few of them ..."disappear".:whistling::rofl:
 
ill gotten gains

Hollywood, most of the uber wealthy oligarchs s in Russia are either former or current participants in Putin's inner circle. They are advisors or heads of government sectors but what makes them targets for sanctions are that they are rich oligarchs because Putin's has allowed them to be in return for staying out of politics and out of his way. They mostly run or did run state owned industry and have most all benefited from graft and corruption. Their wealth is generally ill gotten gains on the backs of the Russian people. By in large, they are all greedy criminals that have taken from the poor and given to themselves and Putin.
They should consider themselves lucky, that only their assets have been arrested. They should be arrested too, along with Putin.

Quite a departure from our, generally joyous discussions of RD

God help Ukraine!

Mike Dana
Third Reef
36'Grand Banks Classic
Potts Harbor Maine
 
Greetings,
All seems like last weeks news now...


275560519_2143033755862101_4377866253777566943_n.jpg
 
mbdana said:
.... By in large, they are all greedy criminals that have taken from the poor and given to themselves and Putin.
They should consider themselves lucky, that only their assets have been arrested. They should be arrested too, along with Putin...
Click to expand...

I have no doubt this is true, but one of the most sacred of American ideas is the concept of being innocent until proven guilty, and due process. Even Al Capone, John Gotti and Pablo Escobar were entitled to a trial and given the opportunity to defend themselves before they were punished. Where are the guardrails in a process like this ? It is not too hard to imagine that if a bunch of Congressmen can arbitrarily sanction someone, that is a power that could be abused.....and this is exactly what our founding fathers were afraid of.
 
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They were afraid of Washington’s super yacht being arbitrarily impounded? [emoji846]
 
Seized Super Yachts

I am aware and support the American concept of being innocent until proven guilty, however, Putin and his inner circle live by their own rules and do not afford their citizens or their sovereign neighbor democracies any semblance of civil rights, therefore they are not entitled privileges afforded civil societies.

As mentioned before, the oligarchs are that because Putin has allowed them to pillage their industries, companies, government agencies. They are privileged people who have had choices to do what's right, unfortunately for them they have chosen to be insanely wealthy through shady means all the while, the Russian people suffer. The Ukraine people are being murdered. Those that don't stand against this murderous dictator and his band of criminals deserve what they have coming to them.

A good beginning would be to scuttle everyone of the seized super yachts which would be a small price they could pay but it's a start....

This forum is for Trawler enthusiast, not a place to debate this subject. It's plain and simple, what is going on in Ukraine is wrong and anyone perpetrating this atrocity must be prosecuted as a war criminal. Period.

Third Reef out...
 
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