Inverter and/or Generator for Great Loop?

[FF]

"why wouldn't I want to get as much boat as I can for the money?

Size is far more important when tied to a dock than when cruising.


Comfort is a great place to sit , eat, operate from, not an echo in the salon.


If you venture along shore the larger cabin may just be larger to fall if there are no internal hand grips.

A real question comes to personal comfort level.
A propane range can have 3 or 4 burners and a modest sized oven , most cruising boats can not seat & serve the number of guests that can be fed.


OC Diver requires,



Appartment refrigerator (I have one)
Microwave
Electric stove / oven (most are 120 VAC <20 amps intermittent).
Crockpot
Rice cooker
Bread maker
Ice maker
Convection oven
Fry pan
Toaster
Coffee maker
Electric kettle
TV
Desk top computer
Hair dryer
Curling iron
Electric blanket (great for cool nights)
Cpap machine
Recharge anything with a small battery charger
Recharge bow thruster batteries
Run a Splendide washing machine / dryer
An air conditioner
A heater
A water heater
Most any 120 VAC power tool
And that's just off the top of my head



A big boat is required just to store all these necessities ! Its a lot of gear for a 6 month cruise.

 

[Boilermaker75]

I agree, FF, "size is more important when tied to a dock [and I would add when on the hook] than when cruising." But it seems to me that cruisers/loopers spend twice as many hours per day "at the dock" [and/or on the hook] than they spend "cruising" -- probably three or four times when you factor in unplanned delays waiting for unfavorable weather to clear.

I remember when I first started backpacking with my older brother in the Boy Scouts, my first tent was a tiny 2-man "pup" tent; later in life, my wife and had a 4-man tent that provided interior space that we could have our backpacks inside the tent with us (dry) and could actually sit up without hitting the wet fabric at the top of the tent.

After spending the better part of an entire rainy weekend trapped inside the cramped cuddly cabin of my 17' sailboat (at the dock), my wife and I traded that boat in on a 22' sailboat with "pop top" and clear vinyl snap-on enclosure. We spent dozens of weekend in that cabin with standing head room and never felt claustrophobic.

I guess I'm going to have to spend time looking at boats of different design styles (e.g., sundeck, sedan bridge, Europa, etc.) and sizes before I figure out what "the smallest size you are comfortable with" is -- and then buy the next larger size boat ;-)

 

[O C Diver]

OC Diver requires,



Appartment refrigerator (I have one)
Microwave
Electric stove / oven (most are 120 VAC <20 amps intermittent).
Crockpot
Rice cooker
Bread maker
Ice maker
Convection oven
Fry pan
Toaster
Coffee maker
Electric kettle
TV
Desk top computer
Hair dryer
Curling iron
Electric blanket (great for cool nights)
Cpap machine
Recharge anything with a small battery charger
Recharge bow thruster batteries
Run a Splendide washing machine / dryer
An air conditioner
A heater
A water heater
Most any 120 VAC power tool
And that's just off the top of my head



A big boat is required just to store all these necessities ! Its a lot of gear for a 6 month cruise.

That was a list of possibilities, not what's on my boat.

Ted

 

[boater3]

I did half the loop this year. I used the generator for heat quite a bit in the winter months. I would imagine I would've needed the AC but I finished the trip in April. I used the inverter every day. To keep things charged, make coffee, etc. There were a couple marinas we had issues getting power and had to run the genset overnight even though we were at a dock. First major upgrade I did was designing a new house bank that would allow us to get 3-4 days of DC power while at anchor/mooring (only running 1 of 3 refrigerators).

 

[FF]

The key to comfort is the ability to enjoy (not simply survive) 3 days of rain in a row, while anchored out.

If you can do that , the boat should be big enough , even after the loop is run.

 

[markajh]

When searching for a 38' - 40' trawler-style boat to do the America's Great Loop on, how important is a DC-to-AC power inverter and/or generator/genset? This question assumes you will be spending more nights at anchor (not connected to shore power) than at a marina dock (connected to shore power). It also assumes you will need to operate some AC powered small appliances/devices (e.g., electric stove/oven, microwave oven, CPAP machine, etc.) While anchored.

Do YF members who have done the Great Loop feel that either an inverter or a generator are "required" pieces of equipment, or simply "nice to have?" If you puchased/owned a boat without an inverter or generator, would you pay to retrofit the boat with either an inverter and/or generator before leaving to do the Great Loop? If so, can anyone suggest an average cost to budget for such retrofit items?

Is purchasing/installing a used inverter and/or used generator (in a 30+/- year old boat a good or bad idea?

Thanks.

Peace and blessings,

Larry Buchman

Very similar to an RV - Inverters are fine for lighting and small motors. You can never expect them to run a generator. Possibly a microwave on a limited basis, but you need a big battery bank. If you are going to power anything electronic - you need a sine wave unit for stable power. Here's an interesting link on solar and inverters... https://gpelectric.com/all-about-inverters/

 

[Seevee]

Ted is spot on!

For a loop trip a generator and NICE inverter is an absolute must. There's no way I'd leave the dock without a generator. Heat, air and power to run 120v appliances is a must.

I had several nights on my recent loop trip were heat was not an option... it was mandatory or freeze. I thought I'd use the AC more but only needed it on for one full night... but MANY times in the afternoon sun.

There's nothing worse than being miserable on a trip that's suppose to be fun.

==
As for the inverter... one could "possibly" skimp by without, if they had an alternator source for coffee maker, fridge, cooler, computer (not available), perhaps propane.

But the inverter did things that just made life SO easy....
We'd put on the crock pot enroute and have a hot meal when the anchor went down.
Spend many nights without running the genny, especially when parked amount our sailboat neighbors.
Provided for coffee in the morning.
Provided for a small micro meal in the evening and morning.
Provided for computers and 110v stuff that had no 12v options, charging the headsets, toothbrush, portable radios, etc.

And I could argue to get "real" marine units.

Should have had solar, too.......

 

[capn_billl]

I don't believe you would ever be able to run a stove or an oven on an inverter. Any appliance that generates that much heat uses way more energy than a boat sized inverter can supply. I would think on a trawler of that size and wanting to stay nights on the hook you will want a generator. On our weekend 20 foot boat we have a 1500 watt inverter and it will make ~ 6 pots of coffee before we have to start the engine to recharge the 2 batteries. But like Dj said I would have and plan to have(it came on the tug) an inverter on our Looper even though it has a 4kw genset.

Yeah, no. I run my 600W microwave on inverter. Very useful for making quick hot lunch, or coffee underway as alternater quickly tops batteries back up,

The inverter also will run lights, and misc. Overnight, ( no AC), so you can have a quiet sleep....just don't for get to start the generator before breakfast or you will have dead batteries.

Generator only works, but you will have to run it all the time. Very annoying when all you need is a quick small AC appliance for a few minutes.

 

[jsjudd]

Lifestyle!

Your question does not depend so much on your boat and your destination as your lifestyle. We started out cruising on a 37' sailboat in 2015. We had batteries with a total capacity of 110 Ah, no generator, no solar panels and no wind turbine. We just got up and go'ed. If you are new to this game, I recommend you get up and go, but anticipate a lot of adjusting.

By the time we got from Maine to the Florida keys, we had a wind turbine installed. A month or two later, we had new batteries installed with 500 Ah. Then we installed 2 big solar panels. Meanwhile, we adjusted our expectations to suit the realities around us. And finally, the boat matched our lives matched our boat; we have been fully powered ever since. We have been in the Carib for 2 seasons now. Without Air Conditioning. Without a generator. We never have to run the big diesel for electricity generation. We are comfortable. We do use computers a lot. We do not have a microwave. We move slowly, sailing an average of 1 day in 10. We use a marina 1 day in 100.

I don't think our previous life of day-sailing or weekend sailing or 2-week holiday sailing ever taught us what we would want on the boat for year-round cruising. Nor did asking others do much. I recommend the get-up-and-go method; just expect to do a lot of learning en route, and leave lots of time for that. Boatworking time on the water is more fun than boatworking time on the hard; So get started, and feel your way into it.

 

[Boilermaker75]

Inverter(s) and Generator(s)

Very similar to an RV - Inverters are fine for lighting and small motors. You can never expect them to run a generator. Possibly a microwave on a limited basis, but you need a big battery bank. If you are going to power anything electronic - you need a sine wave unit for stable power. Here's an interesting link on solar and inverters... https://gpelectric.com/all-about-inverters/

markajh, Thanks for your reply, the suggestion that for electronics, a pure sine wave inverter would be required, and for the link to the "all about inverters" webpage. To be clear, my question was never about using an inverter to fun a generator, but rather whether an inverter (to run low-power-consumption electrical devices (e.g., microwave, coffee maker, CPAC machine, etc.) when not connected to shore power and without having to run the generator would be necessary.

The consensus seems to be that both a generator (diesel or portable gas-powered) AND inverter are highly desirable, if not required for long-term cruising that includes nights "on the hook" (as opposed to "at the dock").

Of course, the house bank must be sized appropriately to support the expected power draw from the inverter and not go below 75% during the night until the batteries can be recharged the following day by the generator or the engine while underway.

 

[Joe Pica]

Yes it is a lifestyle decision. Also depends if the boat will be A full fme live aboard. I highly suggest you attend the AGLCA rendezvous where you can look at the greatest number and diverse collection of currently looping boats anywhere and talk with the owners. I've done 3 loops and cruised most of the entire the western rivers. I was in a very capable, easy to handle, single handed, ergonomically friendly, crazy amount of storage and a stand up walkin engine room. She was a comfortable 37' slow boat (a Great Harbour N-37) with many toys. Twin inverters, 750 amp bank of LFP04 batteries, generator and AC household appliances that were easy to get fixed anywhere. For us the was a great solution that fit our intended use and lifestyle. We used her to cruise over 40,000 miles and sold her to a nice couple who are continuing to cruise her and just finished their 1st loop. Most boats can do the loop in capable hands however to what perceived comfort is a personal (couple's) decision. Recognize that you are getting older and may not be as agile as when young. Is important to look at the your choice with that in consideration. The not sexy fundamentals, e.g. getting on and off the boat at many different styles and types of docks and moorings. getting into and out the dinghy (with a dog, groceries?), ease of access to decks for docks and locks when handling lines without shore assistance. these are acts that occur regularly but are oft overlooked when considering a boat choice.

Good Luck as lot's to consider that will facilitate your cruising destination choices and not encumber them.

 

[ranger58sb]

FWIW, I agree with many: genset and inverter can both be useful.

When we ran south late last year and early this year... air temps were sometimes down in the 20°s... so genset and reverse cycle heating running while underway was a good thing.

And the inverter means quiet morning coffee (coffee maker), afternoon popcorn (microwave), interior TV or stereo, and the electric adjustable recliners work, too, without having to start the generator.

We made do without an inverter for... oh... 20 years or so of boating life... but it only took me about the first year to recognize why we wanted one.

-Chris

 

[Seevee]

markajh, Thanks for your reply, the suggestion that for electronics, a pure sine wave inverter would be required, and for the link to the "all about inverters" webpage. To be clear, my question was never about using an inverter to fun a generator, but rather whether an inverter (to run low-power-consumption electrical devices (e.g., microwave, coffee maker, CPAC machine, etc.) when not connected to shore power and without having to run the generator would be necessary.

The consensus seems to be that both a generator (diesel or portable gas-powered) AND inverter are highly desirable, if not required for long-term cruising that includes nights "on the hook" (as opposed to "at the dock").

Of course, the house bank must be sized appropriately to support the expected power draw from the inverter and not go below 75% during the night until the batteries can be recharged the following day by the generator or the engine while underway.

Boilermaker,

I could STRONGLY argue against a portable gas generator... for many reasons, safety, convenience, etc for starters.

Question: If you are currently shopping for a Loop boat, you'll find the vast majority will have a generator built in. If it doesn't, subtract the cost of getting one from your offer. Selling a boat without a genny will be significantly harder to sell.

There are very few folks that do the loop without a genny.

 

[Seevee]

Yes it is a lifestyle decision. Also depends if the boat will be A full fme live aboard. I highly suggest you attend the AGLCA rendezvous where you can look at the greatest number and diverse collection of currently looping boats anywhere and talk with the owners. I've done 3 loops and cruised most of the entire the western rivers. I was in a very capable, easy to handle, single handed, ergonomically friendly, crazy amount of storage and a stand up walkin engine room. She was a comfortable 37' slow boat (a Great Harbour N-37) with many toys. Twin inverters, 750 amp bank of LFP04 batteries, generator and AC household appliances that were easy to get fixed anywhere. For us the was a great solution that fit our intended use and lifestyle. We used her to cruise over 40,000 miles and sold her to a nice couple who are continuing to cruise her and just finished their 1st loop. Most boats can do the loop in capable hands however to what perceived comfort is a personal (couple's) decision. Recognize that you are getting older and may not be as agile as when young. Is important to look at the your choice with that in consideration. The not sexy fundamentals, e.g. getting on and off the boat at many different styles and types of docks and moorings. getting into and out the dinghy (with a dog, groceries?), ease of access to decks for docks and locks when handling lines without shore assistance. these are acts that occur regularly but are oft overlooked when considering a boat choice.

Good Luck as lot's to consider that will facilitate your cruising destination choices and not encumber them.

Joe,

Spot on.... GREAT POST with a lot of good info.

We did not know you sold the N-37... a great boat. What did you get?

 

[FF]

"interior TV or stereo"

Are all available in a variety of sizes , complexity and quality from the RV folks in 12V.

The 12v RV TV tuners seem to do a far better job of working with a booster to get distant stations, than the house 120v units which seem best at being fed cable or dish.

Disc players ,antennas and boosters in 12v , off the shelf and built robust for vehicles and pot holes.

 

[ranger58sb]

"interior TV or stereo"

Are all available in a variety of sizes , complexity and quality from the RV folks in 12V.

The 12v RV TV tuners seem to do a far better job of working with a booster to get distant stations, than the house 120v units which seem best at being fed cable or dish.

Disc players ,antennas and boosters in 12v , off the shelf and built robust for vehicles and pot holes.

Yeah, but when the boat comes loaded with AC stuff... swapping each component (or at least function) at 12V seemed to be too much trouble for too little gain. Inverter was a faster solution.

In our case, we were focused on the morning coffee and the afternoon popcorn, anyway, not the stereo stuff since we don't use it all that much. (TV news and weather is useful, though.) The breaking point was when we replaced the sleep sofa with electric adjustable recliners. THAT really drove the immediately-thereafter inverter install.

FWIW, I can't imagine a 12V TV tuner being any be tter or worse than an AC tuner just because of the power supply. Some tuners are probably better than others, without regard to AC or DC, but tuning and reception aren't functions of TV power supply.

-Chris

 

[FF]

"The breaking point was when we replaced the sleep sofa with electric adjustable recliners. THAT really drove the immediately-thereafter inverter install."

Zero clearance recliners and couches too are at your favorite RV store.

All fight the comfort in limited space battle.

"but tuning and reception aren't functions of TV power supply."

No,, they are part of the design specs the mfg is willing to pay to produce.

The reception requirements set by the customer base.

 

[ranger58sb]

"The breaking point was when we replaced the sleep sofa with electric adjustable recliners. THAT really drove the immediately-thereafter inverter install."

Zero clearance recliners and couches too are at your favorite RV store.

All fight the comfort in limited space battle.

"but tuning and reception aren't functions of TV power supply."

No,, they are part of the design specs the mfg is willing to pay to produce.

The reception requirements set by the customer base.

Yep; although our "zero-clearance" (so labeled) recliners aren't exactly zero clearance. Good enough, though. Delivered and set up on board direct from our local Laz-Y-Boy store.

True, ref tuning design specs, but I haven't seen any of that make much of a difference between AC- and DC-powered models. Mostly it's about the antenna, amplified or not, and relationship (mostly distance) between receiver and transmitter. Haven't tested much, of course, but the TVs we've worked with on board would all resolve the same stations when using the same antenna. Anyway, my only point was that we found the inverter -- installed for other reasons (coffee, popcorn, chairs) -- to be a fast/easy solution to interior entertainment/... even though not a high priority for us and especially not a usual "while underway" thing.

-Chris

 

[BandB]

Yep; although our "zero-clearance" (so labeled) recliners aren't exactly zero clearance. Good enough, though. Delivered and set up on board direct from our local Laz-Y-Boy store.



-Chris

Claim 3", more like 6". 3" is only with no one in it, no weight.

 

[Andy G]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

 

[catalinajack]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

Andy, some of us are full-time live aboards. Many others spend a LOT of time cruising. As such, many want all the comforts of home. My goodness, we even have a domed pizza oven (propane) we use at least once a week. Make our own dough from scratch. We started our Great Loop last May from Annapolis with 50# of Italian flour on board. So, yes, there is virtually nothing we can't do aboard that we can do in a dirt home. Dish TV too.

Thanksgiving found us quietly anchored on the Tensas River for two days. We roasted a turkey breast and had all else that goes with a T-Day meal including a freshly-made pie. Watched parades and football on the tube. We missed family but it was one of the nicest T-Days we have had.

Lots of folks will tell you that you can "get along" without this or that and they would not be wrong. But why go without if you must not? Or, do not want.

 

[FlyWright]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

Got one at home but not on the boat...yet!

https://www.amazon.com/Oster-Cordless-Electric-Bottle-Opener/dp/B003YFI0O6

 

[BandB]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

Wifey B: No, but we have these great silicone bottle openers for lids you can't get loose.

 

[AusCan]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

I was thinking the same thing, Andy. I'm feeling very poorly equipped with my 150 watt invertor and no generator.
I guess I lead a different life. I ordered my bean bag chairs without the electric recline function because we occasionally use them floating in the water.

Solar panels supply all the electricity I need. I only plug into the dock power to use the vacuum cleaner. The A/C charger is very rarely used and my batteries never drop below 80% charged.

Without the need for cooling, AC power isn't really required.
In hot/humid climates it would be a totally different story.

 

[Todd2]

Reading all the replies posted here I am amazed at some of the stuff people put on their boats.

The only thing that seems to be missing is an electrical bottle opener, assuming such a thing exists.

Dang Andy now you went and ruined it for me - THAT was the only electrical thing I had space left for on my boat.

Todd

 

[bgillroy]

9kw NL Genset and Magnum 2800 inv charger and 1100ah house runs it all for us with power to spare. Makes life aboard dream.

 

[Mrwesson]

I setup my genset to be very quiet and just run that SOB anytime i'm away from the dock(yes while underway almost all the time).

To be fair I don't spend too much time on the hook but most of my must haves(AC/fridge/etc) would require too much AH worth of batteries to offset the weight/cost. I'm also not a nomad and use my boat as more of a weekender so that'll play a role too(always have a slip to return to).

To each their own and I understand the want for silence and I partake occasionally but Genset outweighs any inverter setup for me.

 

[O C Diver]

I setup my genset to be very quiet and just run that SOB anytime i'm away from the dock(yes while underway almost all the time).

To be fair I don't spend too much time on the hook but most of my must haves(AC/fridge/etc) would require too much AH worth of batteries to offset the weight/cost. I'm also not a nomad and use my boat as more of a weekender so that'll play a role too(always have a slip to return to).

To each their own and I understand the want for silence and I partake occasionally but Genset outweighs any inverter setup for me.

If you're an infrequent cruiser that doesn't stray far from home, that's a very viable model. For someone doing the Loop (the OP's original question), that could equate to between 5,000 and 8,000 generator hours in one year. With that kind of anticipated use, a second generator would seem almost a requirement.

Ted

 

[Steve91T]

About how much does an inverter cost and how difficult is the installation.

 

[ssobol]

.... My goodness, we even have a domed pizza oven (propane) we use at least once a week. Make our own dough from scratch. We started our Great Loop last May from Annapolis with 50# of Italian flour on board. So, yes, there is virtually nothing we can't do aboard that we can do in a dirt home. Dish TV too.

...

It wouldn't occur to me to make pizza from scratch at home, let alone on my boat.

Don't care for popcorn either.