Interesting small trawlers

[psneeld]

See post 11 for where I think the "horn" was first mentioned.

 

[JWellington]

Come on guys......"rounding the horn" ??? Seriously ?? Is that the standard we are going to use for if a vessel is sufficiently seaworthy ????

I would bet that 90% of the forum members have never been in 10-15 foot seas, and for good reason. Those conditions should be avoided. Even if your boat can handle it, your crew is probably flying home from the next port.

Do we expect our cars to be able to complete the Baja 1000 ????

There are lots of fine boats that are plenty seaworthy that only a fool would take to higher lattitudes.

CE ratings are an interesting way to compare boats and probably a lot more practical than can you round the horn in it.

Fair enough, but in these various fora we have seen guys even mocking the CE-A rating, the highest they have in Europe. Some have tried to say that some CE-A rated boats couldnt even cross the Atlantic. Others have admitted they have no clue how their boat would be rated, muchless what its Gz is. For those who do high latitudes, the seaworthiness of boats is a serious consideration.

 

[JWellington]

Shoot, I kinda like that. The small size makes the pilothouse height a little out of proportion, wonder what it would look like at say 34'.

We should keep the thread going with other examples of small trawlers - the Interesting Boats thread seems to gravitate towards 50 or 60'+, too big for a lot of needs.

Exactly, thanks. This is supposed to be a trawler forum, and theres all sorts of trawlers, and for different uses. I like these nothern european ones Ive been finding lately. Onecguy reported wherby he went on one up to Spitzberge island y, in horrendous seas, and nobody sweated about it.

 

[Benthic2]

Fair enough, but in these various fora we have seen guys even mocking the CE-A rating, the highest they have in Europe. Some have tried to say that some CE-A rated boats couldnt even cross the Atlantic..

My comment was hardly a ringing endorsement of the CE rating system, I was just saying its probably more objective than random speculation of what it takes to transit the Drake passage by a bunch of people who haven't ever been there or have any training in naval architecture or have any experience with a vessel being overwhelmed by waves and wind beyond its capability.

I know some here have probably sailed there, and some have probably seen boats founder......but the majority of us have not. Even "can it cross the atlantic" is a ridiculous argument to have. Some very small boats have been successful, and some very large ones have failed. In some conditions any boat could do it, but in other conditions very few ships could.

I think to have a go anywhere, anytime, no matter what, vessel, you need a budget like the military, and more training than most civillians would be willing to get.

 

[JWellington]

My comment was hardly a ringing endorsement of the CE rating system, I was just saying its probably more objective than random speculation of what it takes to transit the Drake passage by a bunch of people who haven't ever been there or have any training in naval architecture or have any experience with a vessel being overwhelmed by waves and wind beyond its capability.

I know some here have probably sailed there, and some have probably seen boats founder......but the majority of us have not. Even "can it cross the atlantic" is a ridiculous argument to have. Some very small boats have been successful, and some very large ones have failed. In some conditions any boat could do it, but in other conditions very few ships could.

I think to have a go anywhere, anytime, no matter what, vessel, you need a budget like the military, and more training than most civillians would be willing to get.

Yes, so if a boat has a CE-D rating, I wouldnt try to circumnavigate with it, but I might consider the one with CE-A, as a starting point.

 

[Mako]

Please send some sites by builders, or pics. Im familiar with the neaerby Nova Scotia yard, AF. Theriault, who have built some of the those really great Cape Horn trawlers. Apparently they can build anything you want.

@JWell, do you have an email contact for AFT? I've tried getting in touch with them but to no avail. Perhaps covid has partially shut them down.

 

[JWellington]

@JWell, do you have an email contact for AFT? I've tried getting in touch with them but to no avail. Perhaps covid has partially shut them down.

Their webpage always opens for me. Will check and try to send you.

 

[JWellington]

Their webpage always opens for me. Will check and try to send you.

A. F. Theriault & Son Ltd.
1 d'Entremont Road
Meteghan River
Nova Scotia
B0W 2L0 Canada

Phone: 902.645.2327
Fax: 902.645.2174

https://aftheriaultboatyard.com/en

 

[Mako]

I've called them but didn't get through. Do you have an email contact?

 

[JWellington]

I've called them but didn't get through. Do you have an email contact?

Now that I look again I really dont see an email...weird. Not sure what time zone youre in either, for calling them. All the best.

 

[Peter B]

Greetings,
Mr. JW. You ARE becoming tiresome. Try a couple Valium and have a nap.

Maybe RTF, the best way is to y'all stop replying to every post, then he's just talking to himself, and might take the hint..?

 

[Mako]

I've posted this design on previous threads on this subject, which is relevant to this discussion. This is 46ft x 19ft beam, 43 metric tonnes. The Gz on this design is 72° and the naval architect told me it could be modified for about 90° although we did not get into specifics of what changes would be made. I believe I chatted with @Hippo about this before, but IMO from a practical point of view, a powerboat with a 90° AVS should be suitable for any bluewater endeavor, which I think is similar to the Nordies and KKs. That angle of 130° is likely only reachable with sailboats or very highly specialized designs like Mobius, lifeboats and rescue boats.

 

[JWellington]

@JWell, do you have an email contact for AFT? I've tried getting in touch with them but to no avail. Perhaps covid has partially shut them down.

Found a g ntact from a couple of years ago

Graham Oakley
graham@aft.ns.ca

Yes, are a custom builder in steel, aluminum composites and advanced composites. We do build production vessels like the five passenger ferries for the City of Halifax and we have a composite infusion production line building unmanned high speed target drones for a military contractor with over 500 units to date. But our specialty is custom builds. We can build hulls with 1/2" aluminum plate and all our welding techniques and staff are certified by the Canadian Welding Bureau. We have also build aluminum vessels to Class. We are a full service shipyard with all trades and technical staff employed. We rarely sub contract other than for ND testing, radiography and such. We have a full engineering dept although we are not Naval Architects and usually work with outside firms that specialize in hull design. As well as new construction, our yard has full refit capabilities and 4 marine slips for vessels up to 1500 ton. "
"

 

[JWellington]

I've posted this design on previous threads on this subject, which is relevant to this discussion. This is 46ft x 19ft beam, 43 metric tonnes. The Gz on this design is 72° and the naval architect told me it could be modified for about 90° although we did not get into specifics of what changes would be made. I believe I chatted with @Hippo about this before, but IMO from a practical point of view, a powerboat with a 90° AVS should be suitable for any bluewater endeavor, which I think is similar to the Nordies and KKs. That angle of 130° is likely only reachable with sailboats or very highly specialized designs like Mobius, lifeboats and rescue boats.

Yes, quite right. Ill bet an excellent boat, not too big, and known calculated Gz, etc. And nice looking for those of us who like these beamy ones!

 

[psneeld]

Just a good stability curvr does not make a good sea boat...it is just one part of many.

 

[BruceK]

Maybe RTF, the best way is to y'all stop replying to every post, then he's just talking to himself, and might take the hint..?

"Ignore" is circumvented when others quote the troll.
Not a hint taker. Otherwise he/she it would stop posting. As always, don`t feed trolls.

 

[Hippocampus]

Would consider if building in Al
The myriad NL houses as well as
Kanter - One of the best North-American aluminum builders. Canadian. Very good-looking boats
Alubat - smart designs and well build, from France
Alubat - currently building Denis’s LRCs
Garcia Yachts - France
Futuna Yachts - Also French
Boreal - French yachts
and Jacob Brothers of South Africa

Perhaps others here can talk about changing the purpose of a boat. My experience is converting a solo transatlantic racer to a cruiser. Although the result was seaworthy and fast functional payload was limited. Engaged NA for rough parameters as to what weight could be added and where. Would think converting fish boats to pleasure use would be equally if not more problematic. Again no one factor defines a boat’s behavior nor seaworthiness in survival conditions but purpose built boats tend to function better for the original purpose of the design. Commercial fishing is a very different function than pleasure cruising.

 

[JWellington]

Would consider if building in Al
The myriad NL houses as well as
Kanter - One of the best North-American aluminum builders. Canadian. Very good-looking boats
Alubat - smart designs and well build, from France
Alubat - currently building Denis’s LRCs
Garcia Yachts - France
Futuna Yachts - Also French
Boreal - French yachts
and Jacob Brothers of South Africa

Perhaps others here can talk about changing the purpose of a boat. My experience is converting a solo transatlantic racer to a cruiser. Although the result was seaworthy and fast functional payload was limited. Engaged NA for rough parameters as to what weight could be added and where. Would think converting fish boats to pleasure use would be equally if not more problematic. Again no one factor defines a boat’s behavior nor seaworthiness in survival conditions but purpose built boats tend to function better for the original purpose of the design. Commercial fishing is a very different function than pleasure cruising.

Those, and also another good french one, Meta Chantier. 1/2" thick alu. up to 59'.

 

[JWellington]

In fact, Jacob Bros, mentioned on the list above, did this 37' conversion from fishing boat to pleasure boat.

 

[JWellington]

From that list, areally interesting trawer is from the Canadian builder Kanter, and they give us a few details, unlike many others....."The Kanter 56 is designed to satisfy ISO 12217 Category A, the most stringent category in the standard. "A boat given design Category A is considered to be designed to operate in winds of Beaufort force 10 or less and the associated wave heights, and to survive in more severe conditions.".
They also say it can survive a 90 degree knockdown.

 

[rslifkin]

The thing with the EU Category standards is they discuss seaworthiness, but not overall build quality. There are things like brass instead of bronze thru hulls, inadequate seacock mounting, etc. that are against ABYC recommendations and are questionable in durability, but are allowed even on a Cat A boat. That's where the criticism of them comes from mostly, I think. It's not that the categories mean nothing, but they're also not the end-all of what makes a good boat.

Also, don't forget that just because 2 boats can survive a given set of conditions doesn't mean that one won't be an order of magnitude more pleasant to be aboard (in those conditions) compared to the other.

 

[Hippocampus]

Biggest thing is grading system applies only at the time of first splash as rs notes. Was friendly with the professional captain of a French series production boat. Boat splashed in SF. First trip was to BVI via canal. Boat was trashed. Underwent refit but ultimately got shipped on deck to Europe where it was sold at a significant loss.
Been on decades old Hinckleys and Cherubinis and preuniflight Valiants that have seen tens of thousands of ocean miles but remain Bristol and solid for continuing transoceanic work. Don’t find the EU classification system that helpful. Believe it was developed in conjunction with the European series production boat manufacturers and reflects that.

 

[darkside]

I knew there was a recreational example of a similar 40' trawler in NZ. Is this what the OP is after?
5000nm range

https://www.tradeaboat.co.nz/reviews/0711/windhaven-one-of-a-kind

 

[DDW]

Wow that is one strange boat. If it is right, every other one is wrong.

 

[long-cours.62]

Aiie !

I knew there was a recreational example of a similar 40' trawler in NZ. Is this what the OP is after?
5000nm range

https://www.tradeaboat.co.nz/reviews/0711/windhaven-one-of-a-kind

View attachment 125633

40' and 35000 kg !!
To save fuel she don't play on the wl lengt and don't play on the displacement ...
Condemned to "run" at a very slow speed to be able to do blue water, they could save some weight if built in alloy ( around half of the weight of the hull if built in 8/10mm and 8/10 for this size it is "comfortable" .


This one choose exactly the contrary way

light/narrow (not too much), longer wl, less draft,twin engine and at 8kts 1lt/nm
14% less consumption for + 60% speed....
https://www.yachtworld.fr/yacht/2003-ang-trawler-56-4574469/

Ok the first one with 6mm stell hull could be more "bullet proof"

 

[Mako]

I respect and appreciate people who spend their money on an extremely esoteric, crazy dream boat which likely no one else in the world will appreciate (like fatty or skinny above), but to think that someone is willing to pay you $400,000 for your weird brain-fart is even stranger than the boat itself.

 

[long-cours.62]

Even for our

I respect and appreciate people who spend their money on an extremely esoteric, crazy dream boat which likely no one else in the world will appreciate (like fatty or skinny above), but to think that someone is willing to pay you $400,000 for your weird brain-fart is even stranger than the boat itself.

"esotéric" long-cours 62 , we only found two people who want bought her : the actual owner and a man who want make an expedition in Artic (Arktika).
And she was priced below 300000€...

 

[JWellington]

darkside, thanks for submitting this boat. Its one of the best Ive seen yet! Love it. I'd have preferred an alu hull, but still. So here we have yet another really beamy boat, with all sorts of virtues that naysayers have denounced in other threads. And yes, I wouldnt be worried about rounding the horn, or doing the NW passage in this one.
It was particularly interesting to see his pressurized ventilation system. This is further corroboration of my owm proposals for such air handling in some of my threads.

 

[psneeld]

These threads remind me of one of my favorite quotes from Alice in Wonderland......

Alice laughed. “There’s no use trying,” she said: “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

(Through the Looking-Glass, Chapter 5)

 

[JWellington]

40' and 35000 kg !!
To save fuel she don't play on the wl lengt and don't play on the displacement ...
Condemned to "run" at a very slow speed to be able to do blue water, they could save some weight if built in alloy ( around half of the weight of the hull if built in 8/10mm and 8/10 for this size it is "comfortable" .


This one choose exactly the contrary way

light/narrow (not too much), longer wl, less draft,twin engine and at 8kts 1lt/nm
14% less consumption for + 60% speed....
https://www.yachtworld.fr/yacht/2003-ang-trawler-56-4574469/

Ok the first one with 6mm stell hull could be more "bullet proof"

Fair enough, but 5 kts speed is not being condemned for some of us, but is our preferred speed. Even the 60% increase you propose, is still not exactly too fast, not much difference. Around the world...at a steady 5kts.!!!!