Interesting small trawlers

[Northern Spy]

I think there is a grave misunderstanding between a coastal fishing boat and an offshore fishing boat.

Newfoundland has more coastal fishing boats than Norway without the benefit of the coastal archipelago.

What do you think of those vessels?

[psneeld]

I did notice the video in the OP showed that bubble of a vessel underway in only flat, protected waters... would love to see one in 40 footers rounding Cape Horn.

[phillippeterson]

Originally Posted by Al

Would Love to view this rig like:

Now that would be a hoot!

Holy Crap! That scared the bejeezus out of me.

[psneeld]

It should...many think its cool and their boat is "tough"...etc...etc...

Right up until you have a fire onboard or a steering casualty and doing anything aboard is nearly impossible and now your survival chances dwindle rapidly.

Been there done that... went Pole to Pole in WWII vintage icebreakers that needed more overhauls than the assigned trips.

The OP doesn't get it, never will based on his typical responses.

[DDW]

It must have been particularly difficult to get to the South Pole on an icebreaker of any vintage ;-) .

[psneeld]

Always one.......

Point was...nobody's comin' to save you in places like that......

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. A. Re: Post #8...NO, NO-NO, NO-NO!

[darkside]

Ignoring the OP's wind up posts for a moment, imagine is someone did try to take that around the Horn.
Is there a record for the most 360 rollovers?
Come to think of it that design would probably rotate faster pitchpoling than rolling.
You would just get beaten to death flying around the wheelhouse.

[Jarrow Lily]

Originally Posted by rardoin

I certainly would not "round the horn, do the northwest passage" in the very low aspect ratio commercial near coastal trawler depicted in the OP. I'll chose a properly designed for the mission GRP boat over the 'mini' trawler...no question.

You guys obviosly have no idea about the sea conditions found around Iceland. The North Atlantic/North Sea in that area is serious stuff.
Icelanders have made a boat suitable for their conditions. Dissing the design after looking at a picture is perhaps premature.


My previous post re 'they are not leisure vessels' was to address specific points previously made re high freeboard, mooring lines etc.

[psneeld]

Do you have an idea of the conditions found around Cape Horn?

Besides..... that is not the issure...a coastal fishing boat though well found doesn't make it a suitable open water cruiser/circumnavigator.

True, without seeing a bunch of data or realistic sea trials, knowing exactly how the vessel would perform is only an educated guess.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by Northern Spy

I think there is a grave misunderstanding between a coastal fishing boat and an offshore fishing boat.

Newfoundland has more coastal fishing boats than Norway without the benefit of the coastal archipelago.

What do you think of those vessels?

Please send some sites by builders, or pics. Im familiar with the neaerby Nova Scotia yard, AF. Theriault, who have built some of the those really great Cape Horn trawlers. Apparently they can build anything you want.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by Jarrow Lily

You guys obviosly have no idea about the sea conditions found around Iceland. The North Atlantic/North Sea in that area is serious stuff.
Icelanders have made a boat suitable for their conditions. Dissing the design after looking at a picture is perhaps premature.


My previous post re 'they are not leisure vessels' was to address specific points previously made re high freeboard, mooring lines etc.

I do, have an idea. In fact we were also checking out the model Cleopatra 50, but its fg so rejected it.

[rslifkin]

Don't forget: just because they managed to make the short length / wide beam and other limitations work doesn't mean they're not compromised. I guarantee if you told the same designer and yard to build a boat without those limitations, they could build a functionally better boat.



As far as operating in the tougher parts of the world, heavy weather survival, etc. it doesn't really matter much what you build the boat from (unless ice is involved). It matters far more that the basic design is suitable and it's built strong enough.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Don't forget: just because they managed to make the short length / wide beam and other limitations work doesn't mean they're not compromised. I guarantee if you told the same designer and yard to build a boat without those limitations, they could build a functionally better boat.



As far as operating in the tougher parts of the world, heavy weather survival, etc. it doesn't really matter much what you build the boat from (unless ice is involved). It matters far more that the basic design is suitable and it's built strong enough.

Those clever norwegians and other european builders swear they know about such things, and often advertise that their boats can be 'ice strengthened', 'artic class', Beaufort force 10,, etc. Some even have heated decks to prevent ice buildup. Double glazed heated safety windows. (One of their standards is to drop a 10kg iron ball on them fron 30' up.....3 times. Some europeans, and especially Norwegians know how to make strong boats.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by JWellington

Those clever norwegians and other european builders swear they know about such things, and often advertise that their boats can be 'ice strengthened', 'artic class', Beaufort force 10,, etc. Some even have heated decks to prevent ice buildup. Double glazed heated safety windows. (One of their standards is to drop a 10kg iron ball on them fron 30' up.....3 times. Some europeans, and especially Norwegians know how to make strong boats.

They can certainly do plenty of things to beef them up (as could most builders if they had a reason to). But building to the length limits and then going wide and tall for capacity still has its compromises. So if they made those same improvements to a boat with a more optimal shape, you'd have a better boat.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

They can certainly do plenty of things to beef them up (as could most builders if they had a reason to). But building to the length limits and then going wide and tall for capacity still has its compromises. So if they made those same improvements to a boat with a more optimal shape, you'd have a better boat.

Sure, always compromises. Some like shorter boats because theyre more manoeuverable in tight spaces. Others because many marinas charge by length. So pay less for a boat with as much interior capacity as a much longer one. Some like the looks, etc. Are cape horn conditions often more than beaufort 10? I dont think so.

[psneeld]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Passage

The Drake Passage (referred to as Mar de Hoces ["Hoces Sea"] in Spain and other Spanish speaking countries) is the body of water between South America's Cape Horn, Chile and the South Shetland Islands of Antarctica. It connects the southwestern part of the Atlantic Ocean (Scotia Sea) with the southeastern part of the Pacific Ocean and extends into the Southern Ocean.


Drake Passage showing the boundary points A, B, C, D, E and F accorded by the Treaty of Peace and Friendship of 1984 between Chile and Argentina

Tourist expedition ship sailing across the Drake Passage to Antarctica

Depth profile with salinity and temperature for surface
The Drake Passage is considered one of the most treacherous voyages for ships to make. Currents at its latitude meet no resistance from any landmass, and waves top 40 feet (12 m), hence its reputation as "the most powerful convergence of seas".[1]

As the Drake Passage is the narrowest passage around Antarctica, its existence and shape strongly influence the circulation of water around Antarctica and the global oceanic circulation, as well as the global climate. The bathymetry of the Drake Passage plays an important role on the global mixing of oceanic water.

[Hippocampus]

Some one here needs to read a discussion about stability. As discussed on a prior thread specifically about the limitations of form stability. Without a basic understanding of how to read a Gz curve believe he will continue to post absurd comments. Comments about structural integrity have nothing to do with the basic physics of what makes a decent sea boat in extreme conditions. Yes you need a strong boat that will remain intact and functioning but without a favorable Gz curve it it will not survive. Yes, what Gz curve is suitable depends in part on size so what’s acceptable for a large ship is different (and in some ways easier to meet) than for a boat of <20m. The continued failure of that poster to not consider basic naval architectural principles makes further discussion pointless. For a boat of <20m personally would want to see an AVS >130 (ideally much greater) and a miniscule volume in the Gz curve when inverted or at angles >90. This would be difficult to achieve without a extreme righting arm due to extreme draft and much weight placed at or near that draft. That weight should be placed centrally to achieve an acceptable gyradius and sufficient reserve buoyancy in her ends as to not be overwhelmed.
The boats pictured above are highly specialized and most ingenious but in my humble opinion not suitable for cruising high lat even after conversion. In fact would suspect conversion to pleasure use would decrease their suitability. They were built to fish with highly skilled crews aboard. That is their mission. Period. They are not Southern Ocean boats. They were not designed for that purpose.
BTW there’s a whole lot of grp and CF boats that were built for the Southern Ocean. Other than British Steel not too many Fe RTW sailboats compete or successfuly complete those races. The fascination with steel seems misplaced. Would note most recent high lat designs for small boats are in Al. Yes Fe is an excellent material but due to weight requires compromises when considering small boats.

[JWellington]

I'll risk rounding the horn with beaufort 10 scale boat.

[JWellington]

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

Some one here needs to read a discussion about stability. As discussed on a prior thread specifically about the limitations of form stability. Without a basic understanding of how to read a Gz curve believe he will continue to post absurd comments. Comments about structural integrity have nothing to do with the basic physics of what makes a decent sea boat in extreme conditions. Yes you need a strong boat that will remain intact and functioning but without a favorable Gz curve it it will not survive. Yes, what Gz curve is suitable depends in part on size so what’s acceptable for a large ship is different (and in some ways easier to meet) than for a boat of <20m. The continued failure of that poster to not consider basic naval architectural principles makes further discussion pointless. For a boat of <20m personally would want to see an AVS >130 (ideally much greater) and a miniscule volume in the Gz curve when inverted or at angles >90. This would be difficult to achieve without a extreme righting arm due to extreme draft and much weight placed at or near that draft. That weight should be placed centrally to achieve an acceptable gyradius and sufficient reserve buoyancy in her ends as to not be overwhelmed.
The boats pictured above are highly specialized and most ingenious but in my humble opinion not suitable for cruising high lat even after conversion. In fact would suspect conversion to pleasure use would decrease their suitability. They were built to fish with highly skilled crews aboard. That is their mission. Period. They are not Southern Ocean boats. They were not designed for that purpose.

Fair enough, but these companies dont tell us what their Gz curve is. So the closer one gets in their research, one could ask them about it. Some do mention that they are self-righting though. Thus if one is too top heavy and only recommended for mill ponds, I wont buy. But if they say they conform to all those class scales, and designed for force 10, what more can one do? Europeans make some very interesting boats, many of them unkown to the average american.