Interesting near collision

[Benthic2]

The incident is in the first 90 seconds of the video linked below......

It seems like 90% of collision avoidence is awareness and common sense, but sometimes you need to know the rules and I guess I don't know them well enough.

If you don't want to watch the video there is a large freighter making a turn in the channel and a small sailboat crossing the channel and it is uncomfortably close

It looks like the freighter turned sharper than he needed to just to play chicken with the sailboat because after the sailboat takes evasive action the freighter turns to port. It seems like he could have just gone behind the sailboat and avoided the entire conflict.

The pertinent points that I noticed and that make the issue confusing for me are:

Sailboat vs Powerboat, which I know is an oversimplification but in this case the sailboat is so underpowered it can't move and the freighter is just chugging along.

I thought the term "restricted mobility" usually relates to the working function of the ship, but could it also apply to a sailboat that can't fight the current ?

The freighter gives 5 short blasts but doesn't slow down. It seems odd for him to acknowledge the danger but maintain speed ?? (or was he acknowledging the danger for the little guy and just saying "get out of my way")

It seemed akin to a pedestrian crossing where there was no crosswalk....sure, they may be wrong but it doesn't make them fair game. The freighter really seemed to turn sharper than he needed.

I am sure the freighter captain knows what he's doing. I don't think you can get to his position without that, so the odds are far greater that my confusion is due to my lack of knowledge rather than an error by the captain, but.....I'd love for everyone to play armchair captain and second guess both parties in this.

 

[Porgy]

Why do some people think that a 600- 1,000 foot Laker can just slow down? Or, that you would be able to tell from a YouTube video. Or that it turned more than it needed to play chicken? Tens of thousands of tons of ship and cargo and human lives and play chicken with a sailboat? That would be near the bottom of my list of explanations.

I’m no pro and well seated in the armchair but I’ve read some so as not to end up like that sailor. Ships require thousands of feet, sometimes miles to come to a stop. They plan turns hundreds or thousands of feet in advance. It looks to me like the ship was likely in a channel and constrained by its draft in which case the sailboat would not have been stand on vessel. The ship may have had to maneuver to avoid the sailboat then take evasive action to keep from running aground.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Rule 9 (b).A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

That said, there is a "history" between Laker masters and sailboats - a sail is like a red cape to a bull There is no reason they can't or shouldn't reduce speed while they five-blast themselves to their hearts content on Inland and Great Lakes waters. They're not going to be able to stop to avoid a collision but they can reduce speed.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Here's another in this theme:

 

[rgano]

The sailboat's sails are full, yet it appears it is going nowhere. The freighter, as seen when the camera is zoomed out is coming up on a turn to starboard with a stiff wind blowing from starboard complicating his upcoming turn because of all the windage. The freighter skipper probably felt that going downwind of the sailboat would have placed him in jeopardy of being blown onto shore as he attempted the make the turn. The sailing vessel, if he was stuck because of a head current, was still not mobility impaired, and it could easily have turned sharply to stbd (as it FINALLY did) early on to get the the port side of the oncoming freighter, as he should have done. COLREGS Rule ((b) probably applies here.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

The sailboat's sails are full, yet it appears it is going nowhere. The freighter, as seen when the camera is zoomed out is coming up on a turn to starboard with a stiff wind blowing from starboard complicating his upcoming turn because of all the windage.

Interesting analysis, the wind would also complicate a decision to slow and thus reduce rudder effectiveness.

 

[soin2la]

Ok, how's this?
Laker Master, having quickly and fully, assessed local conditions, made his best guess that if the sailboat got wind or current, it would likely travel camera left to right, which it eventually did.

Good move skipper.

 

[Blissboat]

Large vessels are almost always moving faster than they appear to be, especially to inexperienced boaters on smaller recreational vessels. That's a lesson learned by most who boat in congested waters shared by commercial and recreational traffic. Preferably the lesson is learned the first time, with no harm other than a sudden adrenaline rush on all sides.

The self-unloader Cuyahoga had a visibly stiff breeze (look at the flags) on her starboard side while executing a turn to starboard (upwind) - always a challenging evolution. That is a maneuver when the pilot who is being forced to slow down is suddenly faced with a cascade of unwelcome consequences. The sailboat operator eventually figured things out, but not before scaring the crap out of everyone on both vessels. I'm pretty sure some unkind things were said in the wheelhouse of the ore boat.

The skipper or pilot on Cuyahoga was / is experienced, trained and licensed - that's just about 100% guaranteed. The sailboat skipper - who knows? I read this incident as more evidence in support of mandatory boater education and licensing in every state.

 

[rgano]

Ok, how's this?
Laker Master, having quickly and fully, assessed local conditions, made his best guess that if the sailboat got wind or current, it would likely travel camera left to right, which it eventually did.

Good move skipper.

What I would have done.

 

[Comodave]

Simple Rule 9. As said above. The master of the freighter probably did the best he could given the situation. If I was in the sailboat, I would have made the turn much sooner. As soon as the freighter sounded the 5 blasts the sailboat should have reacted and moved with all due haste. I see nothing wrong with the freighter’s actions. He may have been slowing down, it would take much longer to even see the effect of him throttling down. Of maybe he was just above steerage and couldn’t slow down. The sailboat should know about Rule 9 and not have been basically sitting in the middle of the channel.

 

[rgano]

Bye the bye, do you guys know why those lakers have that pole sticking out off the bow at a 45-degree angle? It's to give the conning officer who is so far forward in the ship a better visual sense of how the ship is headed.

 

[FWT]

My take as an ex sailor.

The sailboat was making scant headway against what was probably a stiff current. And he knew it.

It took him too long to make the decision to change tack to more downwind and with the current to get the heck out of the way. Once the late decision was made, executing it took too long.

In his defense, possibly he was unsure what the ship's intended course would be.

 

[Porgy]

Looking at a chart and aerial photo and that it was described as Port Huron, it looks like it occurred at a turn in the channeled river. If I’m right, there would have been no question what the ship’s intention was.

 

[Benthic2]

I am guessing that the sailboat skipper was making more progress and thought he could make it in front of the freighter.....as it got closer he turned to port pointing higher up wind and up current which instead of giving him more room halted his forward motion and then I suspect that some panick ensued due to the aproach ship and likely screaming passengers.

The freighter turns to port after the sailboat evades him which implies he turned sharper than he needed to.

This is at a bend in the waterway so the ships intention would have been known to the sailboat skipper.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Bye the bye, do you guys know why those lakers have that pole sticking out off the bow at a 45-degree angle? It's to give the conning officer who is so far forward in the ship a better visual sense of how the ship is headed.

I used to call it a whisker pole. It is indeed to give visual clues to help steer. The wheelhouse is so close to the bow and usually blind astern.

 

[Benthic2]

my estimate of the ship/boat's paths

Red = Freighter, headed northwest Green = sailboat

 

[Fletcher500]

Rule of tonnage, so the freighter wins, but the larger vessel Captain sure seems to be moving along a good clip and maybe pushing it a bit, possibly beyond what it is needed for steerage. But, it's just a short video and I don't know the area, or the other particulars for full context of the situation.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Camera view angles can be decieving. It's not truly possible to know how tight the situation was. Nor is it possible without seeing a chart of the area whether or not the laker was constrained by draft. Further on in the video we do get a sense it is a narrow, with respect to the length of the laker, channel.

Regarding the turn to port I know of one possible reason. Though as mentioned above with respect to camera view angles we can't be sure how tight this situation was or the maneuver I'll describe is valid. When a large vessel turns to avoid collision in close quarters a number of things must be taken into account by the pilot / captain. Big vessels need to account for what is called advance and transfer. Advance is the forward progress made between the time that rudder is put over and the time the ship is steady on her new course. Transfer is the horizontal displacement of the ship during the same period of time. The effect is the ship will change heading but initially not the direction of movement over the bottom, that change in direction comes a bit later. During that time the stern swings "wide". If that is what the pilot was dealing with then there is the concern that the bow may miss the sailboat but not the stern. One technique to correct for that is first turn the bow away from the collision, then at the correct moment turn back towards the collision. If that maneuver is done correctly the bigger ship will "dance" around the smaller vessel.



Now for my turn at armchair evaluation of the situation. A small sailboat can literally turn on a time. A large cargo vessel cannot. That understanding coupled with a full understanding of rule #2(b) should tell the sailboat skipper to take evasive action to avoid the collision.

The incident is in the first 90 seconds of the video linked below......

It seems like 90% of collision avoidence is awareness and common sense, but sometimes you need to know the rules and I guess I don't know them well enough.

If you don't want to watch the video there is a large freighter making a turn in the channel and a small sailboat crossing the channel and it is uncomfortably close

It looks like the freighter turned sharper than he needed to just to play chicken with the sailboat because after the sailboat takes evasive action the freighter turns to port. It seems like he could have just gone behind the sailboat and avoided the entire conflict.

The pertinent points that I noticed and that make the issue confusing for me are:

Sailboat vs Powerboat, which I know is an oversimplification but in this case the sailboat is so underpowered it can't move and the freighter is just chugging along.

I thought the term "restricted mobility" usually relates to the working function of the ship, but could it also apply to a sailboat that can't fight the current ?

The freighter gives 5 short blasts but doesn't slow down. It seems odd for him to acknowledge the danger but maintain speed ?? (or was he acknowledging the danger for the little guy and just saying "get out of my way")

It seemed akin to a pedestrian crossing where there was no crosswalk....sure, they may be wrong but it doesn't make them fair game. The freighter really seemed to turn sharper than he needed.

I am sure the freighter captain knows what he's doing. I don't think you can get to his position without that, so the odds are far greater that my confusion is due to my lack of knowledge rather than an error by the captain, but.....I'd love for everyone to play armchair captain and second guess both parties in this.

 

[Jeff F]

There is a lot of current there, probably 3 knots or more. The ship was going upriver and the sailboat down.

I'm pretty sure the ship does that route regularly. I've seen it before on the Detroit River. That's familiar territory for them.

 

[psneeld]

Would be interested in any radio calls made.

Couldn't hear the 5 blasts well, any other whistle signals heard/used?

Wonder if there are any local pilotage rules beyond the standard COLREGs.

 

[Landfall]

The sail boat was on the wrong side of the river and got caught in the eddy current that runs opposite the general flow of the river. It is handy when headed north but will bring a sailboat to a standstill until they get caught by the current and shoot across the river…which is why the steamboat went to starboard. If he would have gone to port he could have never made the turn as the current would have pushed him to the bank and he could not have swung the stern enough to make the turn. Slowing in that area is not much of an option as they are not overly powered to begin with and need the power to make it through the turn. Been through the area hundreds of times on boats from 35 to 900 feet and it is always good to be done with it. Simply monitoring channel 11 in that area will keep you informed on when traffic will be passing under the bridge as Sarnia traffic control keeps tight control of speed and meeting situations for vessels over 200 tons in the entire river system, channel 12 for the Detroit river. Been travelling the Great Lakes professionally and for pleasure for over fifty years and have never met one captain or mate that had it in for sailboaters. Have known many that marveled at their stupidity, hubris, carelessness and apparent disregard for life, but never wished them harm. Why any small boat wants to pass commercial traffic in that area is befuddling, especially when their time due the area both up bound and down bound is so easily garnered several hours in advance,

 

[Blissboat]

Landfall wrote, "Been travelling the Great Lakes professionally and for pleasure for over fifty years and have never met one captain or mate that had it in for sailboaters. Have known many that marveled at their stupidity, hubris, carelessness and apparent disregard for life, but never wished them harm."

Yep. They're like armadillos snuffling their way blindly across the highway, oblivious to trucks and cars swerving to avoid them. I write this as a longtime sail boater who switched to running commercial vessels. Once I took my place in the wheelhouse of a largish boat constrained in its ability to maneuver by nearly every factor you can name, I could only marvel at the breathtakingly boneheaded behavior of my erstwhile colleagues.

One day I was approaching an ICW drawbridge that had opened at my request, when a recreational sailboat, maintaining strict radio silence, entered the channel from my starboard bow, and then, nearing mid-channel, rounded-up and tacked, coming to a standstill right in front of me. As I dumped the engines / transmissions into reverse, I muttered in astonishment, "They tacked right in front us!" My mentor, a captain with years of experience on that route, was standing nearby and disgustedly said, "That might surprise you, but it doesn't surprise me. Nothing sailboats do surprises me."

 

[AlaskaProf]

Bye the bye, do you guys know why those lakers have that pole sticking out off the bow at a 45-degree angle? It's to give the conning officer who is so far forward in the ship a better visual sense of how the ship is headed.

Yes. Same feature on the Washington State ferries.

 

[bowball]

That sailboat seemed paralyzed and was at fault.

Off topic but what annoys me as a seaplane pilot is my seaplane is the lowest priority when on the water. It makes no sense for many reasons. I’m far less maneuverable than a power boat or a sailboat even. I have tiny water rudders and a huge tail that will weather vane me. If the wind gets under my wing I can flip. I can’t take much of a wave. And if I accelerate to take off my nose is so high I can’t see until I get on the step and when I’m planing I sit on just a few inches of contact with my floats and certainly can’t turn then. Not quickly at least.

Any logic here?

 

[SoWhat]

Fault goes to the sailboat. Ship gave ample danger warning. Sailboat stayed on a mostly sideways course before finally realizing the danger and tacking. Sailboat should have used engine at max rpm to move out of channel at first signal. Actually he should have moved to side of channel as soon as he spotted ship. Sailboat captain was oblivious to the danger. Large ships travel at a good clip and don't stop on a dime.

 

[Solly]

Along with the camera angle if it was shot with a telephoto lens they might not have been that close to each other. Still it was close enough for the Laker to let the sailboat know his displeasure.

 

[SteveK]

Red = Freighter, headed northwest Green = sailboat

That marked chart displays it quite well. I too wonder if there was radio chatter and thus the last minute freighter course change. The freighter was well off course trying to go around the stern.

 

[Group9]

I often call commercial tugs/ships via VHF in cases like this to tell them, “I see you and will stay out of your way.” It is usually appreciated.

 

[Port Tack]

The incident is in the first 90 seconds of the video linked below......

It seems like 90% of collision avoidence is awareness and common sense, but sometimes you need to know the rules and I guess I don't know them well enough.

If you don't want to watch the video there is a large freighter making a turn in the channel and a small sailboat crossing the channel and it is uncomfortably close

It looks like the freighter turned sharper than he needed to just to play chicken with the sailboat because after the sailboat takes evasive action the freighter turns to port. It seems like he could have just gone behind the sailboat and avoided the entire conflict.

The pertinent points that I noticed and that make the issue confusing for me are:

Sailboat vs Powerboat, which I know is an oversimplification but in this case the sailboat is so underpowered it can't move and the freighter is just chugging along.

I thought the term "restricted mobility" usually relates to the working function of the ship, but could it also apply to a sailboat that can't fight the current ?

The freighter gives 5 short blasts but doesn't slow down. It seems odd for him to acknowledge the danger but maintain speed ?? (or was he acknowledging the danger for the little guy and just saying "get out of my way")

It seemed akin to a pedestrian crossing where there was no crosswalk....sure, they may be wrong but it doesn't make them fair game. The freighter really seemed to turn sharper than he needed.

I am sure the freighter captain knows what he's doing. I don't think you can get to his position without that, so the odds are far greater that my confusion is due to my lack of knowledge rather than an error by the captain, but.....I'd love for everyone to play armchair captain and second guess both parties in this.

Not enough information but I would have to side with the cargo ship not knowing. Where is the channel? Looks like a lot of current. In most cases I would side with sail over power in such cases but not with a ship that big in a canal. He likely must do what he is doing and the little guy needs to get out of his way.

Reminds me of the Solomons Island night race about 10 years ago. Over 100 sailboats taking off in front of Annapolis tacking south. Nightfall comes and there are sailboats scattered all over the bay from east to west as I say tacking south. Now we have a couple hundred foot tanker headed north and he has a channel he must stay in. I then hear somebody in a sailboat on the radio say.."to the tanker headed north, are you going to hold that course because I should clear you bow if you do, over". Then I hear the bay pilot come on and say, "Sir, my radar currently looks like it has a severe case of the measles and I haven't a clue which one of those dots you are" "I'm staying in this channel because I must and it takes me a couple miles to slow this thing down, I suggest you and anyone else out there listening to this to steer clear, I have no choices". I think we were laughing the rest of that night. You don't play chicken with the big boys.

 

[ancora]

I've always maintained that the perfect name for a sailboat is, "Oblivious."