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Old 07-01-2018, 04:44 PM   #21
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Now, having a previous survey may be ok with them. However, a self survey in your situation would have one other negative. Were you to have a claim, they might come back and claim it was something pre-existing from the purchase and that you didn't find. You put yourself at risk in the event of a claim as you can't cite the survey and say someone independent approved it.
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Old 07-01-2018, 04:49 PM   #22
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If a bank loan is involved, the bank will want a survey as well.
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:48 PM   #23
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An insurer asked to accept the risk of your boat without the survey most buyers obtain as a matter of course might be concerned. First they have no independent advice about the state of the boat and second they have an insured who wants to avoid getting the usual pre purchase survey. They might think you are going to be tight on maintenance for reasons they could speculate on,and that you are somehow different to the normal prudent purchaser who gets hull and engine surveys.

Consider that your view of the boat you`ve chosen to own might color your view of it, however objective you try to be. IMO you should get that survey. Limiting your range of insurers to those who don`t mind you not getting a survey sounds unwise.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #24
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I'm going to go against the grain a bit here.

I agree the insurance company will want the survey, no other option.

Where I differ is the value of the survey. So the surveyor comes up with a list of little non-safety issues like the water heaters don't work or (in my case) the stupid useless little windshield wiper on the lower helm (which I've never used) didn't work.

Then you have to fix them all BEFORE they'll issue the policy. Why? They don't think I can get the boat home safely without a water heater or a tiny wiper on a window that's covered anyway?

It may be possible to get an "insurance survey," which is less intrusive than a full survey. Worth asking, anyway.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:27 PM   #25
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Sooo... sure have been a more than few posts to help you.

May I ask - Is it simply personal financial savings why you do not want a pro surveyor? Or, are you already afraid of what a pro may find and you'd rather the ins co not know.

Either way... the devil's in the details; so to say.

I strongly recommend you to find a good surveyor and have the best survey possible completed. It is in the best interest for all concerned.

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Old 07-01-2018, 07:35 PM   #26
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The other thing a survey will provide is the surveyors opinion of the value of the vessel.... This is the other part of the reason insurance companies typically require a recent survey.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:44 PM   #27
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It may be possible to get an "insurance survey," which is less intrusive than a full survey. Worth asking, anyway.
That's often possible and reasonable. Insurers may even recommend surveyors and, in this situation, no problem using one of their recommended surveyors.
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:47 PM   #28
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I'm going to go against the grain a bit here.

I agree the insurance company will want the survey, no other option.

Where I differ is the value of the survey. So the surveyor comes up with a list of little non-safety issues like the water heaters don't work or (in my case) the stupid useless little windshield wiper on the lower helm (which I've never used) didn't work.

Then you have to fix them all BEFORE they'll issue the policy. Why? They don't think I can get the boat home safely without a water heater or a tiny wiper on a window that's covered anyway?

It may be possible to get an "insurance survey," which is less intrusive than a full survey. Worth asking, anyway.

My insurance company wanted the deficiencies corrected, but not before they wrote the policy. They gave me 60 days if I remember correctly to correct the deficiencies, it may have been 30 days. But they didn’t require them corrected prior to writing the policy. If they did that you would not be able to get a mortgage on the boat.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:31 AM   #29
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My insurance company wanted the deficiencies corrected, but not before they wrote the policy. They gave me 60 days if I remember correctly to correct the deficiencies, it may have been 30 days. But they didn’t require them corrected prior to writing the policy. If they did that you would not be able to get a mortgage on the boat.
That may be true. In my case I bought the boat in February and couldn't get underway until April, so had they given me 30 or 60 days, it still would have forced me to fix everything before getting underway.

My point was, they wanted me to fix things that were pretty low on the priority list. New or upgraded equipment I felt I really needed for safety wasn't on their list at all.

So without saying a survey is a bad thing, I understand the desire to avoid one.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:58 AM   #30
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A survey for insurance purposes doesn't seem avoidable here. When I bought my boat there was a survey left aboard by the PO that was only a couple of years old. My insurance co was happy with that at the beginning, but as soon as the boat aged to 20, they have consistently required a survey every 7 years. This time, for the first time, they also required a mechanical inspection. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any well established criterion for a ME, so it took a few back and forth emails with the insurer to define the scope of that ME. I hope the insurance co is OK with what was done, as I was surprised at how superficial it was.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:28 AM   #31
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We’ve had two different types of surveys on Hobo; pre-purchase and valuation. The pre-purchase was very detailed and included a seperate mechanical survey. Since then the only surveys have been for valuation and asked for by the insurance company. These were done to verify the value and insurability of Hobo. Anything glaring was flagged but no where near the detail like the pre-purchase. The valuation survey also was cheaper.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:40 AM   #32
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If you do a search on how costly it is to do oil spill remediation and /or salvage you wouldn’t balk about a survey. A couple hundred dollars is a cheap part of being covered against a million in liability.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:15 AM   #33
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If you do a search on how costly it is to do oil spill remediation and /or salvage you wouldn’t balk about a survey. A couple hundred dollars is a cheap part of being covered against a million in liability.
A survey does not protect me from a oil spill.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:22 AM   #34
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Not sure if the spill liability was directed at "no survey, no insurance"...

And even then, my understanding is policy wording could be such to not cover you in the event of either policy excetions for misrepresentations or gross negligence ( much harder to prove).
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:04 AM   #35
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We were required to do a re-survey by our insurance company (Ace) after they had insured the boat for 5 years. It was pretty easy because they sent a disposable camera and specific requests for photos of certain areas on the boat. The original survey had been completed when we purchased the boat. Perhaps you could request a similar approach from BoatUS though I am not optimistic.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:19 AM   #36
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We were required to do a re-survey by our insurance company (Ace) after they had insured the boat for 5 years. It was pretty easy because they sent a disposable camera and specific requests for photos of certain areas on the boat. The original survey had been completed when we purchased the boat. Perhaps you could request a similar approach from BoatUS though I am not optimistic.
This makes sense to me. I could provide the survey done a couple of years ago along with whatever current pictures they need. I’ll see what they say.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:50 AM   #37
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You can request an insurance survey, which is less expensive and less intrusive than a full pre-purchase survey. I don't know the details but that can be worked out between you, the surveyor and ins co.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:09 AM   #38
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This makes sense to me. I could provide the survey done a couple of years ago along with whatever current pictures they need. I’ll see what they say.
As I mentioned in post #7 that's all my ins. company wanted this year....4 page self survey with about 20 pictures. The items covered are safety and value related items that are usually in an insurance survey but not all the things on a 20 or more page pre-purchase survey

BUT...that's not for the original insurance agreement so that could be a catch.

They also wanted proof of engine rebuild/upgrades, annual inspections on equipment, mechanic work, etc..... to keep those parts insured or even the whole boat.

But they were reasonable...when I asked about the fixed fire extinguisher system questions, they backed off due to the age and construction of the boat....that alone would have cost more than all my other compliance issues. So some ins. companies are reasonable.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:50 AM   #39
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I agree the insurance company will want the survey, no other option.

Where I differ is the value of the survey. So the surveyor comes up with a list of little non-safety issues like the water heaters don't work or (in my case) the stupid useless little windshield wiper on the lower helm (which I've never used) didn't work.

Then you have to fix them all BEFORE they'll issue the policy. Why? They don't think I can get the boat home safely without a water heater or a tiny wiper on a window that's covered anyway?

That may depend on the insurance company.


When my current boat boat was surveyed for purchase the surveyor flagged a number of items. A number of these were safety related. The starboard nav light was non-functional, there was evidence of a propane leak for the stove, the fuel sight glasses had a valve only on the bottom, the ground wire for the inverter/charger was lighter than current recommendations, to name a few.


The insurance company did allow me to move the boat from Port Ludlow to Gig Harbor provided that it was done during daylight hours in clear visibility and that the stove was used. Once in my home port, I was not insured other than at the dock until I had the starboard nav light and the propane leak addressed. They didn't care about anything else. So in my experience, I have not had to fix every deficiency identified on this boat nor my last one before the insurance company would provide coverage.



This survey was given to the insurance company as well as the lender. The insurance company allowed me to move the boat to its new home but no other use would be allowed until two of the items on the survey were taken care of.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:19 AM   #40
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A survey does not protect me from a oil spill.
It may well, if you're the one doing the spilling. Heavy oil/fuel leaking and automatic bilge pumps are often the cause.
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