Insurance requires a survey, but I don’t want one... - Page 4

BruceK · 07-09-2018, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Well, it's really simple. An insurance survey is required. Some of us don't mind that requirement, others do.

Indeed. And even if you do mind,an insurance survey is still required.
And I`m none too keen on having my boat or parts of it tested to destruction for a fulsome insurance survey, or for an intending purchaser.

what_barnacles · 07-09-2018, 08:52 AM

You can get a liability policy without a survey.

Art · 07-09-2018, 08:59 AM

Boat insurance is the "911" for keeping "financial" as well as other things in order when so very many types of unexpected circumstances might / could / can and sometimes do happen.

Boat-Survey [by a registered, licensed, knowledgeable, professional marine surveyor] is simply part of the expense in obtaining comprehensive boat insurance. Survey[s] performed and then insurance instated on your boat [with annual payments included] may be [hopefully will be] simply a bother in time spent and outgoing costs incurred.

BUT - - > By doing this you should be financially covered! Without boat insurance a major calamity [happening because of your boat] could floor you financially for the rest of your life!

Think very carefully on just how very important boat insurance might unexpectedly become - To You!

psneeld · 07-09-2018, 09:20 AM

many people drop collision on their cars after awhile.... if someone wants to self insure the biggest expense in boat issurance...it may not ne such a bad decision.

sure cover everything but hull for protection...with hull insurance being 3/4 the cost of my insurance and no claims in my lifetime....makes one think about financial sense.

Art · 07-09-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

many people drop collision on their cars after awhile.... if someone wants to self insure the biggest expense in boat issurance...it may not ne such a bad decision.

sure cover everything but hull for protection...with hull insurance being 3/4 the cost of my insurance and no claims in my lifetime....makes one think about financial sense.

Not being an actuary myself... for our 41 yr. old boat... I too have often thought about not having the "hull insurance" expensive portion of insurance on my annual coverage costs. That being said... the stated value my boat is insured for would surely be a big lift for taking care of numerous items regarding boat-circumstances if the boat became a total loss.

Laying out the numbers; seeing as calamity never happened [so far]: I figure if I had never had "hull-coverage" I'd have saved about $1,100 per yr. on ins costs. That is sizable and a major portion of my entire insurance bill. But when I break that down to time we've owned this boat [10 yrs. now] times the $1,100 annual cost that comes to only $11,000 I spent over an entire decade for feeling secure that I can again purchase if the boat totals-out. Insurance on anything is similar to a 911 phone call when/if disaster strikes; in that - somebody's got your back, i.e. you're covered! Only difference in costs is that for all the available emergency services on 911 we pay by taxes... for which we have little control over the actual dollar output.

Steve91T · 07-09-2018, 10:20 AM

I’m going to have full coverage. I never planned not to have insurance or go with a POS company just to get out of a survey. I just didn’t realize it’s required by just about everyone. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A house doesn’t require anything from the insurance company. Banks just want a $350 appraisal.

sunchaser · 07-09-2018, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91T

I’m going to have full coverage. I never planned not to have insurance or go with a POS company just to get out of a survey. I just didn’t realize it’s required by just about everyone. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A house doesn’t require anything from the insurance company. Banks just want a $350 appraisal.

Surveys, physical exams, home inspection prior to purchase, art work or jewelry appraisals, prospectus, business plan review etc are part and parcel of finance 101. Especially from those covering losses whether a cash purchase or lending money. It goes well beyond boats and indeed occurs one way or another on dwellings.

Comodave · 07-09-2018, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91T

I’m going to have full coverage. I never planned not to have insurance or go with a POS company just to get out of a survey. I just didn’t realize it’s required by just about everyone. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A house doesn’t require anything from the insurance company. Banks just want a $350 appraisal.

Actually I used to own an inspection company and home insurance companies do an inspection on your house when you get new insurance. You may never even know about the inspection since we did not go into the house and did not have to contact the owner. We were looking for possible liability issues such as unsecured pools, agressive dogs, etc. We also gave a measurement of the structure and condition of the structure.

BandB · 07-09-2018, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comodave

Actually I used to own an inspection company and home insurance companies do an inspection on your house when you get new insurance. You may never even know about the inspection since we did not go into the house and did not have to contact the owner. We were looking for possible liability issues such as unsecured pools, agressive dogs, etc. We also gave a measurement of the structure and condition of the structure.

They did the same on our house last year, five years after first insuring them. They advised us and the inspector called in advance, perhaps because no way to get in otherwise. Obviously much less expensive than boat surveys.

We meticulously and professionally maintain out boats, but they still get surveys. The expensive surveys are the classification surveys which are required every five years by all major classification societies.

yachtbrokerguy · 07-09-2018, 12:38 PM

I don't think I have met a boat buyer that knows more about boats then a mediocre surveyor who is approved by insurance companies. Many items found by surveyors are complete surprises to the owner, and many recommendations from surveyors are minor improvements for safety or maintenance.

dhays · 07-09-2018, 11:56 PM

Since a boat is a depreciating asset, I would definitely consider carrying just liability insurance on my boat IF I didn’t have a loan on the boat. My Dad told me when I was a kid that insurance is there to cover the losses that you can’t or don’t want to afford. Right now, I can’t afford to take the loss on my boat. I know that that there is a good argument that maybe I can’t afford the boat I have. So I don’t have comprehensive insurance on my old cars, only liability. At some point if I pay off the boat loan, I may drop all but liability.

Comodave · 07-10-2018, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy

I don't think I have met a boat buyer that knows more about boats then a mediocre surveyor who is approved by insurance companies. Many items found by surveyors are complete surprises to the owner, and many recommendations from surveyors are minor improvements for safety or maintenance.

On our current boat, I found more things than the surveyor did. When I pointed some of them out he asked how I knew they were problems. He then asked me why I wasn’t a surveyor.

BruceK · 07-10-2018, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91T

.... Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A house doesn’t require anything from the insurance company. Banks just want a $350 appraisal.

But,your bank lender will want the house insured, in their name as well as yours. And even if the house disappeared they still have the land part of the security.

nodestination · 07-10-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91T

Lol. Best idea yet. I’ll order one from amazon.

I saw on ebay for $5

TDunn · 07-10-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy

I don't think I have met a boat buyer that knows more about boats then a mediocre surveyor who is approved by insurance companies. Many items found by surveyors are complete surprises to the owner, and many recommendations from surveyors are minor improvements for safety or maintenance.

I can assure you that we are out there. In my case time spent building boats, working as a naval architect and doing 100% of the work on my boats has provided me with a slightly greater than average knowledge of my boats. In addition, when I bought my last boat I spent most of three days going over the boat stem to stern before buying the boat without a survey. There were no surprises.

psneeld · 07-10-2018, 11:31 AM

The only way to have NO surprises on a survey is to do one no owner would probably not allow due to the massive disassembly and no prospective owner would pay for because of the exotic testing methods.

Like many surveys in life, a sampling is what you get and hope for the best.

Obviously some boats that are simple and areas accessible are easier to "totally" survey than others.

Panacea123 · 07-10-2018, 05:36 PM

Kudos to you for doing you own survey!
I have had several boats surveyed and the surveyor always missed a lot of things.
There is no substitute for doing you own inspection, crawling in the bilge sounding for soft spots etc. it’s preferable to have the seller on board to answer any questions about operating systems, etc. boats that age will usually age P.O. mods and it can take time to track them down.

That being said, a second set of eyes is ALWAYS worth the cost.
Make sure they have no affiliation with the selling broker.
Emotions can get in the way if you really like the boat! Third party has no emotional attachment to the boat and may may make more realistic recommendations.

Most insurance companies require it, and if you have a claim, your backed up.
Unless you have the knowledge and equipment to do a good engine survey, SPEND the money!

dhays · 07-10-2018, 05:43 PM

I don't think anyone is saying that a survey is perfect. I am certainly not qualified to survey a boat, but once I own it, I discover things that both I and the surveyor missed before purchase. Of course, I have days/weeks to find all the issues with the boat. The surveyor has a few hours.

From a lender or insurer's standpoint, they don't know the owner's or buyers expertise and experience. They certainly aren't in the position to be able to take the owner's/buyer's word for it. They need to do due diligence before risking shareholder's money on a boat. Not perfect, but until a better solution comes along, a qualified surveyor is probably the best option open to them.

Ka_sea_ta · 07-10-2018, 06:29 PM

When we lost a boat in a marina fire, i observed a lot of different outcomes from various types of insurance policies that other boat owners in the marina had enforce. The largest non covered expense was always pollution related. whether it was the potential cost of fuel spill clean up, raising the burnt out hull that sank or the cost of disposing of the hulk once it was raised. A number of boat owners were on the hook for these costs. All of these costs were government mandated and couldn't be ignored... Just saying that there is a lot of reasons to make sure if you cheap out on insurance there is more at risk then just the cost of the boat.

jimisbell · 07-10-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve91T

I’m going to have full coverage. I never planned not to have insurance or go with a POS company just to get out of a survey. I just didn’t realize it’s required by just about everyone. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A house doesn’t require anything from the insurance company. Banks just want a $350 appraisal.

BUT the insurance co DOES want an inspection!!! That is what we are talking about here.

That being said, BoatUS just fully insured my boat two months ago when I bought it, on a "self survey"...AFTER they saw the pictures I sent. I must be a good photographer.