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Old 07-06-2018, 10:42 AM   #41
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This survey was given to the insurance company as well as the lender. The insurance company allowed me to move the boat to its new home but no other use would be allowed until two of the items on the survey were taken care of.
A case in which the insurer's interests and your interests really were the same and they were protecting themselves, but in the process, protecting you. Without the survey and insurer, you might have put yourself in peril just with a safety issue you were completely unaware of.

The vast majority of the time, insurers are reasonable in what they insist on being fixed.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:20 AM   #42
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I am really disappointed on how inflexible insurance companies are on this subject. My policy expired and I want to change insurer because they were not licensed in the US. So I went shopping in the good old USA. Boat US/Geico agreed to insure me but their premium was too high so I elected to just insure for liability only and the premium went down to a very reasonable $300.00. I accepted but they wanted a survey less than 2 years old. This was a new/old boat for me and my purchase survey was 2 years and 5 months old. Not good enough for them. A new survey would mean a haul out and probably over $1,000 in expense, 3 times their premium. I asked them to reconsider, especially since it was only liability insurance I was applying for but they refused and insist on the new survey. Rules are rules, right. Guess I won't be doing business with Boat US/Geico. Does anyone know of another insurer I can apply to?
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:49 AM   #43
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Try Sea Insure through Sea Tow.

They used to have the same underwriters as my insurance New Hampshire, but Sea Insure didnt insure liveaboards....even though the same underwriter.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:47 AM   #44
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Get a surveyor license - do self survey .
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:37 AM   #45
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Get a surveyor license - do self survey .
Lol. Best idea yet. Iíll order one from amazon.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:40 AM   #46
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I have never had an issue with my insurance company and deficiencies found during a survey. I simply wrote explanations of the situation with my proposed remedies. The insurance has always accepted my submissions. For example, during the last survey of my sailboat the surveyor noted significant rust in the bilge under the engine and concluded that my keel bolts needed replacement. In my response to the insurance underwriter I explained why I wasn't concerned about that issue and they accepted my explanation. I also resolved never to deal with that surveyor again.


My note to the insurer was along these lines.



I am not concerned about the condition of my keel bolts for the simple reason that my boat has a molded fiberglass keel with internal lead ballast that is fully encapsulated in fiberglass. In other words there are no keel bolts. The rust the surveyor saw was the top of an abandoned black iron fuel tank (abandoned more than 10 years before I bought the boat).


Note, when I hired the surveyor, who was recommended by the insurance company, he assured me that he knew all there was to know about my boat model. Clearly that was not the case.


Depending on your level of knowledge a survey may or may not be worth the money. Even then a survey may be worth the money depending on the value of the boat. I know people who have had brand new boats surveyed at delivery where the survey turned up significant deficiencies that the builder had to address. Given the emotional state of a person taking delivery of a new boat it is easy to overlook deficiencies - i.e., in the excitement of taking delivery of your new boat you miss/gloss over things. In other words, a survey can be quite valuable IF the surveyor is competent.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:07 AM   #47
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Get a surveyor license - do self survey .
Becoming a surveyor isnít a license type of process. Usually the insurance company will require a surveyor that is a member of an accredited group such as NAMS or SAMS. The group has its own requirements to belong to the group. You have to look up those specific requirements of each group but up they usually include a certain number of completed surveys. It is an involved process. And by the way, I would expect the insurance company to question a survey done by the owner as an initial survey. They may accept an owner recheck survey but probably not as an initial survey. In 2002 Boat/US accepted me doing an initial survey due to my involvement with the CG Aux, but they no longer even do that.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:22 AM   #48
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A case in which the insurer's interests and your interests really were the same and they were protecting themselves, but in the process, protecting you. Without the survey and insurer, you might have put yourself in peril just with a safety issue you were completely unaware of.



The vast majority of the time, insurers are reasonable in what they insist on being fixed.


Agreed. I certainly didnít mind the restriction and yet appreciated the forebearance that allowed me to move the boat.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:13 PM   #49
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Becoming a surveyor isnít a license type of process. Usually the insurance company will require a surveyor that is a member of an accredited group such as NAMS or SAMS. The group has its own requirements to belong to the group. You have to look up those specific requirements of each group but up they usually include a certain number of completed surveys. It is an involved process. And by the way, I would expect the insurance company to question a survey done by the owner as an initial survey. They may accept an owner recheck survey but probably not as an initial survey. In 2002 Boat/US accepted me doing an initial survey due to my involvement with the CG Aux, but they no longer even do that.
He was joking.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:15 PM   #50
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Agreed. I certainly didnít mind the restriction and yet appreciated the forebearance that allowed me to move the boat.
The insurers interests and the owners interests really do align.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:42 PM   #51
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I am really disappointed on how inflexible insurance companies are on this subject. My policy expired and I want to change insurer because they were not licensed in the US. So I went shopping in the good old USA. Boat US/Geico agreed to insure me but their premium was too high so I elected to just insure for liability only and the premium went down to a very reasonable $300.00. I accepted but they wanted a survey less than 2 years old. This was a new/old boat for me and my purchase survey was 2 years and 5 months old. Not good enough for them. A new survey would mean a haul out and probably over $1,000 in expense, 3 times their premium. I asked them to reconsider, especially since it was only liability insurance I was applying for but they refused and insist on the new survey. Rules are rules, right. Guess I won't be doing business with Boat US/Geico. Does anyone know of another insurer I can apply to?
There are a number of defects that can lead to a liability incident.
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Old 07-08-2018, 01:25 AM   #52
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Ideally, the more thorough the insurer is, the lower their costs....and then your rates should be lower as well.

Its like the WC Fields quote: "I don't want to belong to any club that would let me in"

I wouldn't want a policy from a company that wasn't doing their due dilligence is controlling costs. These things are cyclical. Insurance company's losses go up....so rates go up. The best customers go elsewhere....they need more customers...so they ease up on standards.....losses go up more....rates go up more..The next best customers leave...... insurance company death spiral.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:39 AM   #53
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My insurer,which is a marine specialist, requires a survey at purchase if the boat is of a certain age. It required me to attend to certain items within a specified period, and was willing to discuss and amend at least one requirement.
It then requires an insurance survey every 5 years.They remind me a year ahead, that it will be required. I can have it done at a routine haul out anytime in the intervening period. Seems to work ok, so far.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:15 AM   #54
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My insurer,which is a marine specialist, requires a survey at purchase if the boat is of a certain age. It required me to attend to certain items within a specified period, and was willing to discuss and amend at least one requirement.
It then requires an insurance survey every 5 years.They remind me a year ahead, that it will be required. I can have it done at a routine haul out anytime in the intervening period. Seems to work ok, so far.
I use the same insurer, and had the 5 year survey a couple of months ago. I did not do anything to prepare for it, just my usual 'keep on top of it' maintenance. Nothing of significance revealed, but there was an inevitable list of items to attend to. As I was in the yard for antifoul and scheduled maintenance, it was easy to deal with the items on the list immediately, many done by myself. I advised my broker when complete. When he advised the insurers their response was 'thank you for dealing with the list of items so quickly'. I hope my file has that note as well!

The survey was not an insignificant cost, but I sleep easy and am cruising confidently knowing that an independent and critical/pedantic set of eyes has been all over the boat. I am happy to carry out the 5 year surveys, it is just a part of the cost of boating.

Everyone here knows that its the quality of maintenance of engines and boat systems that is more important than engine hours and boat age. Lack of maintenance is a clear red flag. To me another red flag would be lack of full insurance/lack of periodic professional surveys. I'll get the cost of my surveys back when the boat is sold because the boat will be seen to have been properly maintained.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:27 AM   #55
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Lack of destructive or certain types testing, disassembly of fixtures, thorough testing as in a detailed engine survey, etc......all mean the average survey has no better chance of catching serious problems than a knowledgeable, hands on owner knows or can find on his own boat.

Granted that the average boater doesnt meet those requirements, especially the larger and more complex vessels become..... but neither does an insurance survey over a pre-purchase survey in many cases.
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:14 AM   #56
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Lack of destructive or certain types testing, disassembly of fixtures, thorough testing as in a detailed engine survey, etc......all mean the average survey has no better chance of catching serious problems than a knowledgeable, hands on owner knows or can find on his own boat.

Granted that the average boater doesnt meet those requirements, especially the larger and more complex vessels become..... but neither does an insurance survey over a pre-purchase survey in many cases.
Exactly!
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:47 AM   #57
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So don't hire an "average" surveyor.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:01 AM   #58
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Well, it's really simple. An insurance survey is required. Some of us don't mind that requirement, others do.
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Old 07-08-2018, 08:05 PM   #59
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survey smurvey, just get a liability policy and carry the rest.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:26 AM   #60
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survey smurvey, just get a liability policy and carry the rest.
They still require a survey.
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