Insurance Options for older boats

[Autoteacher]

Hi All, Shopping for insurance for an older 1986 boat we have restored and refitted since buying 2 years ago. We have insurance with American Modern and have some same concerns. We are in a prime lightning zone of US. A Catamaran near us was hit and caused damage to the boats next slip over plus all the electronics on the cat.
We tried to get MTOA recommended insurance last year but did not have a good response due to age of boat (1986) and poor condition at time of purchase. Now with a new survey and a long list of improvements we will be shopping for a better policy. Hope to hear from member's experiences and the good, bad and ugly. We had our previous sailboat insured with State Farm along with our cars, home, etc with same agent for 38 years but they don't do old boats. Same with Allstate, Progressive and Travelers. We do have friends on 1985-86 trawlers that have boat insurance with all of those companies, but there is always a reason they are covered. Boat US may be best coverage but we won't pay 10% of the value of the boat per year.

See our upgrades @ TheOffice: December 2013

Thanks for all!
Sonny
Jekyll Island Georgia 31527
Cell:678-852-6351

 

[Francois]

Hi Autoteacher,
I also found it hard to insure my 1985 50' Chris craft. Of the 5 company I requested quotes, only two replied
- Boat us, had the best but asked $5k per year
- Farmers ins. (Foremost), they are now covering up to 50'. The yearly cost is $1600, so I went with them

Good luck

 

[Pau Hana]

When I saw this thread, I thought it was about "old" boats- as in vessels built in the 30s or 40s. A mid 80s boat is not a problem to insure.

Having said the above, there are a few caveats: coverage may before expensive, so this is the time to focus more on coverage and less on price. Focusing on the premium as a primary factor often means that coverage is stripped to meet a price objective.

Having a good and recent hauled survey is another key - asking an underwriter to provide a quote with a 5 year old survey is unlikely to happen unless the policy has marginal coverage. If the boat is of wood construction, ensure the surveyor pulls some fasteners and reports their condition on the survey.

Just as in real estate, location, location, locations is another prime factor that is considered- if the boat is in a hurricane zone, the premium will be impacted.

Finally, I strongly recommend you speak with a specialty marine insurer vice your homeowners agent- the specialty agent/broker will know what questions to ask, and will have a relationship with underwriting that the standard property/casualty agent won't have.

 

[rwidman]

I would press your State Farm agent to find you a policy. You might mention that you are considering moving all your insurance to a company that will insure your boat. I have Nationwide (but a newer boat) and get multi policy discounts. Also, I am able to get an umbrella policy by having all my policies with them.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Ask your State Farm agent to talk with Underwriting. Our old system would not quote boats older than 1989 but the restriction has changed and there is a new quoting tool. Many agents don't have a lot of experience insuring larger and older boats. This does not mean State Farm doesn't have the experience or skill! We can and do insure boats like yours. A current survey is a must, as Pete (Pau Hana) suggested.

State Farm's multi-line discounts are not affected by whether you insure your boat with State Farm. You would be wise to get a quote from a specialist like Pete for comparison shopping. I am a State Farm agent and you will not find a better company - check your State's insurance commissioner's website and compare market share and complaint ratios. In the State of Washington, where I am licensed, the number two market share company averages three times more complaints than State Farm, year in and year out, for eight years running.

Good luck!

 

[Pau Hana]

I would press your State Farm agent to find you a policy. You might mention that you are considering moving all your insurance to a company that will insure your boat. I have Nationwide (but a newer boat) and get multi policy discounts. Also, I am able to get an umbrella policy by having all my policies with them.

You'll want to read that Nationwide policy jacket- there are better policies out there that offer better coverage.

 

[rwidman]

You'll want to read that Nationwide policy jacket- there are better policies out there that offer better coverage.

I could read it but I might not understand it. What's wrong with Nationwide and what policies are better for similar rates?

 

[Pau Hana]

I could read it but I might not understand it. What's wrong with Nationwide and what policies are better for similar rates?

Good question, and an honest one. Nationwide is a good insuring company, but their watercraft policy is more of a general property/casualty form than a specialized marine form. When the policy is written specifically to cover marine risks, it is more inclusive than exclusive, and the coverage is very broad. Take a look at the link below to get a good start on understanding marine insurance- I wrote the article several years ago, and it holds true today.

Rates for many marine insurers are highly competitive- the challenge is comparing apples to apples vice apples to oranges. A company may offer a very low rate, but is the coverage going to be there when you need it?


Bayliner Owners Club - BOC Forum - Topic: Vessel insurance 101 (Very simplified!!!) (1/3)

 

[rwidman]

Thanks for the link and explanation. Now to get out my policy and read it. My agent knows nothing about boats (or yachts).

 

[Autoteacher]

Insurance

No question of the integrity of State Farm. We were always pleased with their service. They paid off on a home , boat and car damages with us. The agent was a good friend and always gave us the best rate even with teen drivers.

We no longer have a land home and our transportation is by Enterprize if not bike. We are not unhappy with American Modern and like the service. We may stay with them. We are shopping around to be a wise consumer. We do appreciate all the comments and advisement. We are having the boat surveyed since many improvements have been done since the last survey 2 years ago.

Pete's information is very good. I will make sure to read the policy.

Thanks, S

 

[psneeld]

No question of the integrity of State Farm. We were always pleased with their service. They paid off on a home , boat and car damages with us. The agent was a good friend and always gave us the best rate even with teen drivers.

We no longer have a land home and our transportation is by Enterprize if not bike. We are not unhappy with American Modern and like the service. We may stay with them. We are shopping around to be a wise consumer. We do appreciate all the comments and advisement. We are having the boat surveyed since many improvements have been done since the last survey 2 years ago.

Pete's information is very good. I will make sure to read the policy.

Thanks, S

Court: State Farm Committed Fraud in Katrina Case

April 9, 2013

Court: State Farm Committed Fraud in Katrina Case - ABC News

State Farm Fire & Casualty Co. engaged in a "pattern of racketeering" by manipulating engineering reports on Hurricane Katrina damage so the company could deny policyholder claims, lawyers for a group of Mississippi homeowners allege in a lawsuit filed Wednesday.

State Farm accused of Katrina racketeering - Business - US business | NBC News

I had heard that State Farm treated boatowners so poorly it was one of the major reasons Sea Tow got into the boat insurance business....

 

[Autoteacher]

The things I learn on this site! Thanks Pete

 

[Phil Fill]

I would go through a marine broker/insurance company;

ACE marine insurance - 800-826-1733
Anchor marine Underwriters 800-726-2728
National Maine underwriters – 800-262-8467
Trafalgar Maine – 800-221-3884
Progress Boat – 800-455-8191

You just have a current in and out of water survey with market value.

We are insured with ACE for thr last 10+ years.

 

[Pau Hana]

Court: State Farm Committed Fraud in Katrina Case

April 9, 2013

Court: State Farm Committed Fraud in Katrina Case - ABC News

State Farm Fire & Casualty Co. engaged in a "pattern of racketeering" by manipulating engineering reports on Hurricane Katrina damage so the company could deny policyholder claims, lawyers for a group of Mississippi homeowners allege in a lawsuit filed Wednesday.

State Farm accused of Katrina racketeering - Business - US business | NBC News

I had heard that State Farm treated boatowners so poorly it was one of the major reasons Sea Tow got into the boat insurance business....

I'd be careful calling 2 lawsuits- 1 finding in favor of the government, and a second filed by an ambulance chaser- as wholesale condemnation of State Farm. I don't represent them, so I have no dog in the fight- but I do know that they are held in high regard by those in the industry.

As for Sea Tow- they were founded in 1983, 22 years before Katrina.....

 

[Pau Hana]

The things I learn on this site! Thanks Pete

My pleasure, sir!

 

[pilothouse king]

DON'T! Put the premium money back into your boat so you don't have any fires, or loss's!
Register her in a manner where you can't be financially harmed. Although the individual agents might be good guys, they're just brokers for the big boys who have all the lawyers, and just don't pay if it's too big a hit on their books!!!

 

[psneeld]

I'd be careful calling 2 lawsuits- 1 finding in favor of the government, and a second filed by an ambulance chaser- as wholesale condemnation of State Farm. I don't represent them, so I have no dog in the fight- but I do know that they are held in high regard by those in the industry.

As for Sea Tow- they were founded in 1983, 22 years before Katrina.....

I'm not going to post every one...but I think even BoatUS posted plenty on insurance companies that just ignored their clients after that and other storms...

it went well beyond a couple lawsuits...
1/18/2007 9:17:50 AM ET 2007-01-18T14:17:50 WASHINGTON — Rep. Barney Frank, the head of the House Financial Services Committee, vowed Wednesday to look into an alleged "failure in the insurance system" related to Hurricane Katrina.

Sea Insure wasn't started when Sea Tow was...it was started after Katrina because of the poor response by other insurance agencies...per the founders of Sea Insure that I got first hand.

I'm not slamming the whole insurance business...some were very responsive during most of these storms...just countering the assertion that State Farm was beyond reproach...they at that time were one of the worst.

 

[Pau Hana]

I'm not going to post every one...but I think even BoatUS posted plenty on insurance companies that just ignored their clients after that and other storms...

it went well beyond a couple lawsuits...
1/18/2007 9:17:50 AM ET 2007-01-18T14:17:50 WASHINGTON — Rep. Barney Frank, the head of the House Financial Services Committee, vowed Wednesday to look into an alleged "failure in the insurance system" related to Hurricane Katrina.

Sea Insure wasn't started when Sea Tow was...it was started after Katrina because of the poor response by other insurance agencies...per the founders of Sea Insure that I got first hand.

I'm not slamming the whole insurance business...some were very responsive during most of these storms...just countering the assertion that State Farm was beyond reproach...they at that time were one of the worst.

Again, based on what? A few claims that generated lawsuits? How many State Farm claims went right, and didn't make the news? Every time there is a major disaster, the same types of news reports and lawsuits pop up. As for Barney Frank- he's a joke at best. Like most things, the squeaky wheel gets the grease....

Just reviewed Sea Insure- I question why they offer agreed value as an added cost option vice part of the standard policy, and why membership is a requirement for coverage......

And I recant- you are correct. Sea Insure was incepted in 2007.

 

[rwidman]

In the USA, anyone can sue anyone. You don't have to have a case, you just hope the party you are suing will settle rather than try to defend itself.

Consider the woman who sued McDonalds because her coffee was hot and when she spilled it, it burned her skin.

 

[N4712]

Consider the woman who sued McDonalds because her coffee was hot and when she spilled it, it burned her skin.

Yeah, it amazes me what low life's today will sue for.

 

[psneeld]

yeah...but these weren't little nuisance lawsuits...State Farm was hit by thousands of law suits that were settled, many others heard in court and won by the home/boat owners, some class action involving hundreds of litigants and it went both state and federal in being investigated and State Farm for violating RICO statutes.....

State Farm probably cleaned up their act...after Katrina...they had to....at least in the areas that were affected.

Further investigation has produced that State Farm is also being investigated in Illinois and New York State for violating RICO statutes....hmmmmm...I bet they are lilly white

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Psneeld,

I will only reply publicly once, and if you want to really dig into this, please PM me. No need for name-calling or mud-slinging on a public forum.

After Katrina there were lots of lawsuits against lots of companies, filed by lots of people. The large majority of these were filed by people who were upset that their homeowners insurance did not cover FLOOD. Flood coverage is excluded by homeowners insurance and is available as an optional purchase underwritten by the US government.

One well-known lawsuit was by a prominent politician who wanted State Farm to pay out for Katrina damages because he claimed the water that flooded his house was caused by wind and thus was not a flood. The definition of flood is when the ground won't absorb any more moisture regardless of the weather condition that caused the saturation of the ground.

Another great reason to read your yacht insurance policy, as different insurers exclude different things.

 

[Pau Hana]

In the USA, anyone can sue anyone. You don't have to have a case, you just hope the party you are suing will settle rather than try to defend itself.

Consider the woman who sued McDonalds because her coffee was hot and when she spilled it, it burned her skin.

Yeah, it amazes me what low life's today will sue for.

Not to hijack the thread, but the McD's coffee suit had some merit, as the plaintiff received 3rd degree burns from the coffee.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Just as in the bashing of State Farm, the facts (in context and complete) often deliver the "rest of the story" that people at large never hear or choose to ignore.

 

[Off Duty]

Psneeld,

I will only reply publicly once, and if you want to really dig into this, please PM me. No need for name-calling or mud-slinging on a public forum...

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mudslinging or name calling in the thread?

I can't speak to Katrina, but I can with 1st hand knowledge, speak to hurricane damage in Florida during a spate of almost back to back hurricanes several years back (I worked through them).

Friends and co-workers were left with blue tarped roofs for months on end, while the insurance companies drug their feet, mishandled claims and attempted to deny settlements.
It wasn't until a few of the guys I know personally, threatened to lawyer up, that the companies stood up and took notice.

A friend of mine is an adjuster. He was called in to work the damage assessments. He was "instructed" to change a report to indicate damage caused by water vice wind, so the claim could be denied. When he refused, he was summarily dismissed....just sayin'.

Not to hijack the thread, but the McD's coffee suit had some merit, as the plaintiff received 3rd degree burns from the coffee.

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Just as in the bashing of State Farm, the facts (in context and complete) often deliver the "rest of the story" that people at large never hear or choose to ignore.

Yes it did, but we're still inundated with frivolous lawsuits in this country. In the end, it sticks it to all of us.

 

[psneeld]

All I can say is State Farm probably isn't as lilly white as people are trying to make it out to be.

They are/have been recently under the microscope in 3 states for RICO infractions.

We all know that corporate America would NEVER EVER do anything that even remotely smelled of illegal activity....

 

[Off Duty]

Very true, and it's not limited to State Farm. Then there is also the flip side of the argument. There are a TON of fraudulent claims which in many cases cause the insurers to look more stringently at the insured. Claims such as property damaged or lost, that either never existed, or was trashed to begin with. Claimed "Losses" on items that people are over their heads on, and of course, the staged crashes and fraudulent claims. It's pretty aggravating really. Add to that the ambulance chaser (not intended to be a swipe at all attorney's. I have some very good friends that do a very commendable job in that field) that try to make chicken salad out of chicken caca...

 

[meridian]

Get back on track ..
.

 

[rwidman]

Not to hijack the thread, but the McD's coffee suit had some merit, as the plaintiff received 3rd degree burns from the coffee.

Perhaps, but she should have expected hot coffee to be hot. Coffee is normally served hot and should be expected to be hot. It was her own carelessness with the coffee that caused her injury, not the fact that the restaurant served hot coffee (that she ordered and paid for).

I have a shop full of tools that could cause serious injury or death if used improperly. If I cut my finger off with a power saw that is not defective, is it the manufacturer's fault for selling a sharp saw or my fault for using it improperly

I think adults need to accept responsibility for their actions. Everything bad that happens to you is not someone else's fault.

 

[jwnall]

Well! Looks as if the OP got a lot of good answers to his original query, and has something to think about.

 

[Delfin]

Rich Haynie Insurance, (206) 634-1770, is my agent. Delfin was built in 1965 and her policy costs less than 1% per year of her value. Ours is issued through Travelers, but I believe Rich deals with a number of companies.