Insurance coverage, What do I need?

[jdud133]

I received this quote for insurance. I am less concerned with the price than I am with having the right coverage. What should I be looking for in insurance coverage limits. The boat will be in Rhode Island.



Outline of coverage
1979 MAINSHIP 34 MKI
Hull ID #:
Hull material: Fiberglass
Garaging/Mooring Zip Code: 02886 State: RI Use: Pleasure Use Exclusively
Propulsion type: Inboard Number of motors: 1 165 Total horsepower:
Limits Deductible Premium ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Comprehensive Agreed Value $35,000 $1,000 $143 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Collision Agreed Value $35,000 $1,000 92 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Included with Comprehensive and Collision:
Wreckage Removal
Marine Electronics $500 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
159
Bodily Injury and Property Damage Liability $500,000 combined single limit each accident
Liability To Others
Includes Fuel Spill Liability
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Uninsured Boater $500,000 combined single limit each accident 84 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Medical Payments $10,000 each person 95 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Replacement Cost Personal Effects $2,000 $250 26 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Coastal Navigation 75 Nautical Miles included ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Total premium for 1979 MAINSHIP $599 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Total 12 month policy premium, with paid in full discount $599

 

[BruceK]

Pathetically low $500K public liability cover for Bodily Injury,Property Damage Liability to Others. Standard here is $10M.

 

[windmill29130]

Fuel Spill Cleanup

 

[dimer2]

Salvage....best to send Pau Hana a PM and let him advise you.

 

[GFC]

Good advice to contact Pau Hana. When in doubt, contact an expert in the business.

 

[tegdesign]

I second the recommendation to speak with Pau Hana. He set me up with some good insurance, and he (Peter Ricks) is a heck of a nice guy.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Liability is normal, but would suggest umbrella coverage up to at least $1,000,000. Also look at whether the coverage is for replacement value or actual cash value. For example if the motor is wrecked by fire or water the replacement cost may take up most of the $35,000. However, a decades old motor may have an actual cash value of very little.

The section dealing with loss because of mechanical failure should be reviewed so you aren't surprised to find you have no coverage for a loss because you didn't maintain the boat properly.

Any mention of the coverage of a dinghy and outboard and whether you are covered if you tow the dinghy?

 

[markpierce]

Liability is normal, but would suggest umbrella coverage up to at least $1,000,000.

I recommend you have sufficient coverage for the total amount of your wealth, or at least the amount of wealth you're comfortable retaining.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Contact Pau Hana. You should have $1 million of liability coverage PLUS an Umbrella for at least your net worth rounded up to the next million. Your policy pays for environmental damage out of liability and an Umbrella excludes environmental damage. If your agent didn't tell you this, get a new agent.

 

[DavidM]

jdud133:

That coverage is typical of a decent marine policy. There are details that only an experienced marine broker could advise you on, but all in all it looks good.

On the subject of umbrella coverage I agree, but not in the context of boat ownership alone. It should cover all liability risks and extend your home owners, auto and boat liability policies. You might do better buying this policy from the carrier that supplies your home owners insurance.

David

 

[jdud133]

Thank you for the replies.


I have been chartering 30-40ft sailboats for the past five years. I love to sail, but I don't love sailboats. This will the first boat that I own.


I got this quote from an agent at the New England boat show as a ballpark figure toward making my budget. Since there are good and not so good agents I wanted to know what I should be looking for in a policy.


I do already have a 1 million dollar umbrella policy.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 133. $1M doesn't go very far in the current market. Up it to $5M at least.

 

[DavidM]

I do already have a 1 million dollar umbrella policy.

Make sure that the boat policy is added as part of the umbrella coverage. It won't happen automatically. It might or might not cost anything to do, but if it does it will be trivial, literally a few bucks.

David

 

[Bay Pelican]

Some umbrella carriers will not cover a major boat. Others will not cover a boat which leaves the United States. Clarify this is writing.

Also if you are planning on taking the boat of the United States make sure the umbrella coverage covers you for claims made in a foreign country. I have seen umbrella policies which will cover you for occurrences outside of the United States but only if the claim is made inside the United States (lawsuit in the US).

 

[BandB]

Some umbrella carriers will not cover a major boat. Others will not cover a boat which leaves the United States. Clarify this is writing.

Also if you are planning on taking the boat of the United States make sure the umbrella coverage covers you for claims made in a foreign country. I have seen umbrella policies which will cover you for occurrences outside of the United States but only if the claim is made inside the United States (lawsuit in the US).

My umbrella discussion went something like this.

Me: I want to be covered for anything, anywhere, anytime.

Broker: Do you want to be covered for xxxxx?

Me: Yes, anything, anywhere, anytime.

Broker: And even xxx?

Me: Yes, anything, anywhere, anytime.

He got the point. I don't want to have to remember or go pull my policy out to see if covered and I don't want to have to call my insurer every time I do something different. I might forget.

 

[bligh]

Pathetically low $500K public liability cover for Bodily Injury,Property Damage Liability to Others. Standard here is $10M.

$10M what? Dollars?

 

[BandB]

$10M what? Dollars?

Australian Dollars so only $7.8 million US.

And before one panics at the thought of the cost, you'd be amazed sometimes how cheaply higher limits come. Since the vast majority of claims are low, it's often more affordable than you might believe. That's why umbrella policies themselves are affordable. The odds of them ever being used are very slim. But they're extremely valuable to have just in case.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Another point: I have found only two carriers in Indiana who will issue umbrella coverage for a boat in the Caribbean. State Farm and Chubb.

 

[BandB]

Another point: I have found only two carriers in Indiana who will issue umbrella coverage for a boat in the Caribbean. State Farm and Chubb.

When you're thinking Umbrella coverage don't overlook Lloyd's.

 

[windmill29130]

Before you go out and buy a bunch of insurance you don't need, you should review your state laws and the federal laws on asset protection. First of all, they cannot get what you don't have in the first place. Second, federal law states, qualified 401k plans are protected, IRAs are state regulated as well as equity in your home and other personal property. I suggest you investigate thoroughly before you buy. Unless you got millions lying around in a bank account, I cannot see where anybody would need 10 million in coverage for your average 35-50 ft trawler. but don't take my or anybody else's word for it, research on your own. I would first check with local carrier that handles your home and cars. Remember, anything related to boat usually tends to be inflated. Good Luck!

 

[BandB]

Before you go out and buy a bunch of insurance you don't need, you should review your state laws and the federal laws on asset protection. First of all, they cannot get what you don't have in the first place. Second, federal law states, qualified 401k plans are protected, IRAs are state regulated as well as equity in your home and other personal property. I suggest you investigate thoroughly before you buy. Unless you got millions lying around in a bank account, I cannot see where anybody would need 10 million in coverage for your average 35-50 ft trawler. but don't take my or anybody else's word for it, research on your own. I would first check with local carrier that handles your home and cars. Remember, anything related to boat usually tends to be inflated. Good Luck!

Ok, a little problem with your argument just as there is with the argument you buy insurance only up to your assets. Let's say your total assets are $100,000. Why get a million dollars of insurance instead of $100,000? Because the case you lose might be for $600,000 and whatever amount isn't covered by insurance will be taken from you. Now, there are many ways to protect assets and some are protected, but whatever our unprotected assets, most of us still don't want to lose them all. Obviously makes no sense to spend $10,000 per year protecting $25,000 in assets. Now the umbrella policy we're discussing is not "for your boat." That's a liability policy to cover all liabilities not covered by other insurance.

Then there's the most used method for escaping large liability judgments and it's bankruptcy. We see businesses and individuals doing that all the time. Perhaps in some cases it's a reasonable and legitimate use of bankruptcy laws to deal with unforeseen events, but in other cases it's an abusive means of escaping liability.

 

[bligh]

Australian Dollars so only $7.8 million US.

And before one panics at the thought of the cost, you'd be amazed sometimes how cheaply higher limits come. Since the vast majority of claims are low, it's often more affordable than you might believe. That's why umbrella policies themselves are affordable. The odds of them ever being used are very slim. But they're extremely valuable to have just in case.

Ok, so 8.7 M US dollars. Wow, those Aussies must be a destructive bunch. How does one do 8.7 million dollars worth of damage with one trawler?

 

[BandB]

Ok, so 8.7 M US dollars. Wow, those Aussies must be a destructive bunch. How does one do 8.7 million dollars worth of damage with one trawler?

Run into and sink a $40 million dollar yacht. Cause a major fuel spill. Destroy coral reefs. Cause several deaths, especially of wealthy persons with huge earning capacity.

I don't know all the laws in Australia but in the US liability is basically unlimited. Fairly easy to put values on yachts or cost of environmental cleanup but how do you put a value on lost lives? One PWC with a 14 year old and his 10 year old cousin on it pulls right in front of you, how high might it rise?

See Anderson vs. GM. Verdict: $4.9 billion. 79 Chevy Malibu was rear ended by a drunk driver in 1993. Gas tank exploded and four kids trapped. Severe burns although all survived.

But you could injure someone in such a way that to get proper medical treatment for life would run close to $10 million.

 

[windmill29130]

Obviously we don't insure to cover the minimum/our existing assets, nor do we insure for the scenario where we sink a 40 million dollar yacht. I choose a policy that I am comfortable with after research and meeting with my agent. When you hear about all these extreme verdicts, you never hear what they actually get, remember that!

 

[jb cruzan]

Before you go out and buy a bunch of insurance you don't need, you should review your state laws and the federal laws on asset protection. First of all, they cannot get what you don't have in the first place. Second, federal law states, qualified 401k plans are protected, IRAs are state regulated as well as equity in your home and other personal property. I suggest you investigate thoroughly before you buy. Unless you got millions lying around in a bank account, I cannot see where anybody would need 10 million in coverage for your average 35-50 ft trawler. but don't take my or anybody else's word for it, research on your own. I would first check with local carrier that handles your home and cars. Remember, anything related to boat usually tends to be inflated. Good Luck!

+1 Solid advice here. Getting ridiculously high liability insurance just encourages more silly high number lawsuits.

 

[bligh]

Run into and sink a $40 million dollar yacht. Cause a major fuel spill. Destroy coral reefs. Cause several deaths, especially of wealthy persons with huge earning capacity.

I don't know all the laws in Australia but in the US liability is basically unlimited. Fairly easy to put values on yachts or cost of environmental cleanup but how do you put a value on lost lives? One PWC with a 14 year old and his 10 year old cousin on it pulls right in front of you, how high might it rise?

See Anderson vs. GM. Verdict: $4.9 billion. 79 Chevy Malibu was rear ended by a drunk driver in 1993. Gas tank exploded and four kids trapped. Severe burns although all survived.

But you could injure someone in such a way that to get proper medical treatment for life would run close to $10 million.

Your getting carried away. Suing gm is different than suing the owner of frisky.

 

[BandB]

Your getting carried away. Suing gm is different than suing the owner of frisky.

But unfortunately $5-10 million dollar verdicts are not all that uncommon. Large enough verdicts to bankrupt most people aren't. Each needs to determine what makes sense for them, but the question originated from why anyone would need a $10 million policy and there are many reasons they might. Now am I encouraging everyone to go buy one? No. But I'm also encouraging people to look at their overall insurance protection and talk to their attorney if they need advice on limiting their exposure.

 

[bligh]

But unfortunately $5-10 million dollar verdicts are not all that uncommon. Large enough verdicts to bankrupt most people aren't. Each needs to determine what makes sense for them, but the question originated from why anyone would need a $10 million policy and there are many reasons they might. Now am I encouraging everyone to go buy one? No. But I'm also encouraging people to look at their overall insurance protection and talk to their attorney if they need advice on limiting their exposure.

My personal experience has been that claims and suits have always settled for the maximum amount of insurance coverages. When that is dried up, lawyers find another party to sue that has the funds or insurance readily available. What lawyer would sue some one for 10 million dollars if they knew the most they could get immediately (within a year or 3) would only be a mere fraction of that...
Im not saying dont carry insuance either, but cmon, insuance against myself for sinking a 40 million dollar yacht? My boat hasnt even been in veiwing distance of a 40 million dollar yacht, or even a 10 million dollar yacht.

 

[bligh]

I do have an umbrella policy , but i am quite skeptical it is worth more than the paper it was written on.

 

[Forkliftt]

Speaking of insurance. My dock neighbor mentioned he had switched to Sea Insure (Sea Tow), and got a better policy at great savings. We are about two months into our new policy, but I went ahead and got a quote. Using a higher agreed value than my current insurance, and getting $10 a foot paid for a named storm haul out, I still had a premium 30% less than the current one. As a matter of fact- it's the best rate I've ever been quoted. Anybody using them yet??


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