Insult to recreational Boaters?

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QUOTE:Boaters are out on the water doing whatever they want, said Capt. Mike McElroy, director of marine operations for Chicago’s Wendella Boats and Chicago Water Taxi, which participated in PVA’s presentation.
“Most of these people have never been on a boat before. It’s the equivalent of somebody without a driver’s license getting on the expressway,” he said.

One can only hope the NTSB see's this type of baseless nonsensical ranting as the gibberish it is
 
I tend to agree.

The vast majority of pleasure boaters don't know rules of the road or at least don't abide by them.

Many even experienced boaters just barely know the common rules but yet don't have the working knowledge of them to alloy them correctly in all situations.

Experienced or seasoned, well informed boaters are just a tip of the iceberg....certainly not the majority.

I remember the alcohol thread where many said even the one or two beer an afternoon boaters were a threat to boating safety....well heck there were more than a few experienced boaters on TF that admitted to that so add them to that worthless heap of ignorant boaters too. :D
 
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psneeld said:
I tend to agree.

The vast majority of pleasure boaters don't know rules of the road or at least don't abide by them.

Many even experienced boaters just barely know the common rules but yet don't have the working knowledge of them to alloy them correctly in all situations.
. :D
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I feel the same way about many drivers , even though they (most likely) have licenses
 
I work on the waters of the Great lakes. The vast majority of recreational boaters there are fine. No problems at all. Certainly everyone here on this forum would be welcome to come drive my boat any day.

That being said, there are a lot of idiots out there. Some of the most problematic are the fishermen who insist upon sitting in the middle of the channel in restricted waterways. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys wait until I've already sounded the danger signal twice before they even try to START their outboards.

I nearly ran over a sailboat on Lake Erie one dark, dark night because he didn't have any lights on. Not one. If he hadn't tried to light a cigarette when he did, I never would have seen him. It's probably the only recorded incident of smoking saving someone's life. He never did show up on the radar either.

I've had boats try to sneak between our 730 foot ship and the dock, while we were trying to tie up...It's madness.

I once saw somebody drive a jet ski full tilt over a dam. A big dam. Like a 75' tall dam.

Honestly, I don't think it would be at all unreasonable for people to have to pass a basic rules of the road or seamanship test. For their own safety and that of everyone around them.
 
Dave we have idiots on the Columbia River too. There is a 90 degree corner that the big ships must navigate. The channel is deep, but very narrow. A recreational fishing boat decided to anchor in the channel. Big ship blows horn, many times. Big boat sunk fishing boat, USCG had to rescue fisherman and was then cited....
 
Regardless of what motorized activity you are involved with, there is going to be about a 100% chance of stupidity observed. I think in a marine environment, you typically see it the most with smaller powerboats and PWCs. Of course financial entry point doesn't always get in the way. Not that I am a well experienced pilot but the old saying that rich guys sometimes 'buy their way into a plane' that they can't handle which usually ends up into a fatality or expensive crash.


I guess it boils down to this country not having a whole lot of repricussions for poor actions on the road and in the water. The air is a whole other story, there is no shortage of agencies watching your every move. Like confucious say, only dumb men paint tail numbers large ;)
 
It astounds me that even in states with a boat license requirement, there is no requirement for an on the water test. Just know the rules for the test, then turn the key and take off.

Guys fishing in the middle of the channel is prevalent everywhere I travel. The normal routine is for them to move out of the way at the last second. I have a pair of Kahlenberg horns that I use from time to time when necessary. They get a huge reaction.
 
Woops 2 X
 
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IMHO... lack of common courtesy plays a big part in problems on the waters as well as on roads. Humans, especially Americans, seem too often to have this "one-ups-man-ship" sickness. It's bred into us. Look at what has happened to our Fed Govt. They are basically paralyzed by it.

Saying I learned from dad - although he was also somewhat afflicted with one-up sickness:

"There lays the body of one Michael O'Day

He died defending his right of way

Mike was right, dead right, as he sailed along

But, he's just as dead as if he were wrong!"
 
It's always the 10% that make everybody else look stupid in the eyes of the ignorant.
 
The law of tonnage is not a rule of the road and that can be one of the issues commercial guys have with little guys doing the unexpected based on that myth.

Done early before there is any doubt...great...at the last minute after the big guy has already corrected because of the "REAL" they tend to follow by the letter....then it can be ugly.

That's exactly what I meant in my last post of maybe have g the knowledge of the rules, but not a great working knowledge.
 
windmill29130 said:
It's always the 10% that make everybody else look stupid in the eyes of the ignorant.
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I hope you realize that a good working knowledge of boating is not with 90 percent of the boaters...at least between NJ and FL.

.... plus there is the arrogant "me first" group that don't follow and societal rules...just the ones that suit them. There is at least a few percent when combined with the completely oblivious.
 
psneeld said:
I hope you realize that a good working knowledge of boating is not with 90 percent of the boaters...at least between NJ and FL.

.... plus there is the arrogant "me first" group that don't follow and societal rules...just the ones that suit them. There is at least a few percent when combined with the completely oblivious.
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The 10%'ers is a Marine Corp term, not an exact figure. It can be plus many percents on weekends and minus many percents on weekdays. Overall in my short career of boating, I have experienced a very small percentage of what I would call poor knowledge. I like to see the good in people and not just hound on the bad. Chances are you'll never come across them again anyway.
 
Well guys, you could be right but not sure I totally agree with everyone. Recently brought a vessel up the ICW from Key Largo to Massachusetts. The worst boaters I found were North of NJ. I do not remember any issues in the Southern states. Many times when being overtaken it was with a warning and slowdown if asked for. NJ North totally different. New York Harbor a total disaster. The worst was in the battery and the most offensive captains were the ferry boat captains.
 
psneeld said:
The law of tonnage is not a rule of the road and that can be one of the issues commercial guys have with little guys doing the unexpected based on that myth.
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That's correct. There is no tonnage law. There is this, however:

INTERNATIONAL and INLAND

(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

I don't think people realize how quickly we run out of room when we're loaded to 26 feet.

You're right about people only following the parts of the rules that they think apply to them. I'm sure a lot of people have never read the rules, and are just going on what people have told them. If you're in your own private vessel fishing for fun, you are not technically a 'vessel engaged in fishing' under the rules. You are just a power driven vessel, with the rights and responsibilities thereof.

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.
 
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kpinnn said:
Well guys, you could be right but not sure I totally agree with everyone. Recently brought a vessel up the ICW from Key Largo to Massachusetts. The worst boaters I found were North of NJ. I do not remember any issues in the Southern states. Many times when being overtaken it was with a warning and slowdown if asked for. NJ North totally different. New York Harbor a total disaster. The worst was in the battery and the most offensive captains were the ferry boat captains.
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Dam Yankees!
 
I have always contended that the most dangerous part of running my recreational scuba charter operation was bringing the boat from the seabouy to my slip on the trip home. While not all or even most recreational boaters are a danger to everyone including themselves and their passengers, there are a significant number every afternoon in the Ocean City MD waterways that are. I am truly amazed that more people aren't injured or killed while boating because of these idiots. While I'm a less government person, would really like to see the marine police crackdown on the reckless boaters and hand out some meaningful fines.

Ted
 
The state of Minnesota has more registered boats than any state other than Florida. The VAST majority of them are pontoons and small fishing boats on lakes that have four or five boats on them. And you can see the entire lake at one time. Add the next big registration states like Michigan and Wisconsin (with similar lakes) and you have a substantial number of the nation's boaters there. I cannot imagine why they should be subject to some federal test of rules. They will never see a channel marker in their life on their boat. They will never experience tide or current. They will never see a commercial vessel, or one constrained in maneuverability or by draft. They don't have radios to hail with or radar to locate with. Way more than 2 million boats don't need to know these things to putt around their pond. I can't get on board with a national program.
 
BDofMSP said:
The state of Minnesota has more registered boats than any state other than Florida. The VAST majority of them are pontoons and small fishing boats on lakes that have four or five boats on them. And you can see the entire lake at one time. Add the next big registration states like Michigan and Wisconsin (with similar lakes) and you have a substantial number of the nation's boaters there. I cannot imagine why they should be subject to some federal test of rules. They will never see a channel marker in their life on their boat. They will never experience tide or current. They will never see a commercial vessel, or one constrained in maneuverability or by draft. They don't have radios to hail with or radar to locate with. Way more than 2 million boats don't need to know these things to putt around their pond. I can't get on board with a national program.
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And I suppose none of them ever put their boats on trailers and go to Florida during the winter to fish. The problem is that they don't all stay on their ponds.

Ted
 
Of course some will. I do all the time and I've taken professional training to prepare myself. So let Florida create it's own program that is appropriate for it's waters. A federal program is not needed here. It's like killing mosquitoes with a shotgun.
 
>New York Harbor a total disaster. The worst was in the battery and the most offensive captains were the ferry boat captains.<

You thought the Staten Island Ferry should slow down to not make a wake for you?
 
BDofMSP said:
Of course some will. I do all the time and I've taken professional training to prepare myself. So let Florida create it's own program that is appropriate for it's waters. A federal program is not needed here. It's like killing mosquitoes with a shotgun.
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This makes little sense to me. I can see exemption for for training on lightly used landlocked lakes, but boating on the ICW, Great Lakes or even landlocked lakes where there is heavy recreational or commercial traffic takes skill and carries responsibilities. Balkanizing licensing requirements for states on the eastern seaboard, for instance, would mean anyone who travels between states would be subject to different requirements. Why not model it after drivers' licenses; if you have one, you can drive almost anywhere. Give exemptions for the lakes you describe (like driving a car on a private parking lot).

I also think people who say requiring a license won't change bad behavior miss the point. If a license to operate a boat can be taken away for reckless or drunken operation, it might actually get some of the idiots off the water or raise their insurance premiums until it hurts.
 
The article seems to be addressing kayaks and paddle-boarders not necessarily all "recreational boaters". Bear in mind these are vessels without lights, no radio, no way of communicating, and may not have any knowledge of the rules of the road. Many often just rent the board or kayak for a day and go out and play. I think there is a rightful concern in regards to these type of activities. I took no offense to the article.
 
I think this thread could lead to some very good discussions thoughts and ideas at the same time it could end up another thread of people blasting others ideas

boating since I was a very young child does not make me a perfect or great boater

I learn new things every time I go out

In our area I am amazed at some of the things I see on the water from jetskis to kayaks go fast boats to go slow boats

Thankfully we have a large number of sheriff boats, police boats and marine patrol in the sarasota area at least this helps

But it sure would be nice to see more educated boaters
 
An inland lakes exemption is a reasonable alternative. Regarding states drivers licenses, you actually make my point though. My friend's wife has spent the past two years trying to rebuild her life after she was nearly killed by a man from Texas who had never driven on snow covered roads. Should everybody in the country have to take ice driving training just in case they come up north? That is probably far more common than people trailing to the ocean, yet I don't think it's a reasonable solution. We're a big country. Not everything is one size fits all.
 
My pet peeve is kayaks that are blue and are almost invisible at any reasonable distance. I also think there should be a color standard for flotation devices that make them highly visible. Dayglo colors might be good.
 
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