Inside Passage Travel Route

[Portage_Bay]

So first off, Alaska is a sovereign state and our government has implimented laws barring your coming here unless you meet specific quarantine requirements. We have also barred travel between communities.

The reason for this, and anybody else's perception of the risks are not relevant. What matters is that people need to abide by our laws wether they agree with them or not.

From a practical standpoint your thought of coming to Alaska and not entering our communities is not real. You ARE going to go to our small isolated villages. You ARE going to go into our stores to reprovision. When you do that you introduce a threat vector into those communities.

Also from a practical standpoint do not expect to be greeted with open arms. People are frightened right now and cautious of “outsiders”. You might not even be allowed to dock.

Remember that rural Alaska is not the big city. In many smaller communities the law enforcement might be a single person or a couple of people. If the locals are afraid of you coming to their community you could easily be turned away and if anyone tries to force the issue the results could be unpleasant.

I understand the threat. I understand the concept that outsiders pose a greater threat. I live in a rural setting and don't like the city folk flocking to the place because they feel safer. I don't like that we don't have enough medical facilities to take care of the locals let alone visitors.

Please, go back and re-read my last where I said:

"I'm not suggesting violating any laws, national or local. If an area is closed, it's closed. I'll honor that as well as honoring my local stay at home order."

It was a simple question. Why is it OK for a local to be out and about pleasure cruising as opposed to a visitor? NOT an intent to cruise to BC or Ak.

Also go back and read my previous posts where I defend Canada's right to restrict travel on her waters. I also recognize Ak right to do the same. Or any other place.


Edited to add content, pushed 'submit' too soon.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I'll bite. Because things on occasion go wrong and you will not remain autonomous when someone has a heart attack or breaks a leg. Now all of the sudden your best intentions have now imposed a demand upon the nearest community with already limited resources.

Good point. I have in the past gone 30 days and more without touching shore for any reason. But an emergency will override any intent to not touch shore.

 

[GFC]

Ksanders & Okydowky,

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of cruising to BC or Ak. I think it's a bunch of stuck at home boaters with not much to do so we're tossing ideas of inside passage vs outside back and forth on TF. It becomes immediately obvious that most of us in our current boats can't or don't want to run to Ak non stop, inside or outside.

I must have missed that in his first post where he said "I'm only sitting here dreaming while quarantined and mentally planning a trip to AK".

No, wait, he didn't say that, and that's why everybody and his brother is pitching him crap about not doing this trip. He's made so many statements in his posts that would lead one to thing this guy is really planning on making this trip.

Portage Bay, if there is still any doubt in your mind about whether or not to make this trip, your statement in your post where you said you're not breaking any laws, please go back and read Kevin Sander's post at 3:00. I don't know if it can be made any clearer than that.

 

[ksanders]

OK Kevin. I understand the issue with small villages.

However, the "Executive Orders" that Gov. Mike has issued are NOT laws. Only the legislature can enact and create laws so long as Gov. Mike signs off or it is not overridden.

Same as in Washington and Oregon. These executive orders, in my opinion, are not valid and unconstitutional. Marshall Law has not been enacted yet the States Governors feel they have a right to involve Marshall Law without declaring it.

Again, I fully understand these small villages that are so very vulnerable. I have a friend who is a doctor in Bethel. They are very worried. But then again they were worried with N1H1 too.

Not true here in Alaska. If you look at the links I provided they show the mandates, and I think at the bottom they show the Alaska law used, and punishment fr breaking that law. Up to 1 year in prison and up to $25,000 fine

That makes them the highest level of misdemeanor, just short of a felony crime.

At some point in the past Alaska enacted laws that the govenor could use in a emergency situation. Those laws exist in many states, but seldom if ever need to be used.

 

[BonesD]

Hey guys, most have you have hijacked this thread with a bunch of hypothetical what ifs etc.
If you want to start a what if thread go ahead.
O
I asked for help from experienced travelers for a Proposed (planned)Trip late this spring. Of course the travel ban will need to be lifted, of course we wouldn’t break laws, of course we would not purposely or inadvertently want to expose anyone to a possible anything. Could we sail outside? Yes. I’m not delivering oranges to starving miners so the scenic route is preferred. Already invested in my Canadian Courtesy flag and acquired all the needed licenses. But if it’s not to be ....
Sheesh! Why throw all the arrows?
So, did you hear the one about the Keyboard and Chicken Little, it starts like this.......
BonesD

 

[Nickair]

I'll bite. Because things on occasion go wrong and you will not remain autonomous when someone has a heart attack or breaks a leg. Now all of the sudden your best intentions have now imposed a demand upon the nearest community with already limited resources.

Yes, this issue is brought up in emergency meetings as a risk to the entity/town/community/facility/etc.
A medical emergency, boat situation of taking on water or physical damage and loss of power or loss of steerage would be what they would be worried about as a direct threat to life on shore.

 

[twistedtree]

It's an interesting question about restricting interstate travel during all the meyham. In short, state's can't. The Supreme Court has ruled on it in many ways. And interestingly, the Alaska orders say nothing about restricting interstate travel - because they can't.

What we ARE seeing are requests to quarantine.

Here's a key summary of the most recent Supreme Court decision that's directly relevant:


The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states:
(1) the right to enter one state and leave another (an inherent right with historical support from the Articles of Confederation),
(2) the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the "Privileges and Immunities" clause in Article IV, § 2), and
(3) (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native-born citizens (this is protected by the 14th Amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause; citing the majority opinion in the Slaughter-House Cases, Justice Stevens said, "the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment . . . has always been common ground that this Clause protects the third component of the right to travel.").



More background reading here:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law

 

[soin2la]

Okydowky, your lack of reasoning, logic and common sense are right in line with your vessel name; a name I think the locals will find easy to remember.

There has been a significant increase in COVID-19 cases on Vancouver Island in the past week. The virus was brought to us from somewhere else and you have absolutely no way of knowing whether you have carried this virus with you, in either direction.

Travelling from Kelowna, or anywhere else, to Campbell River and spending any time in CR is putting you in contact with essential services and front line workers; in both directions and your decision to do so goes against everything our Provincial Health Officer is saying and rational, understanding people are adhering to.

You are taking a selfish, “me” position and your two posts are contradictory, in stating “you stay home, I’ll go where I please.”

Post 48:

Thank you! I was patiently waiting for someone in Alaska to chime in. So many people just don’t get this pandemic, and what it can do to a small community.

They can’t stop me!! I have a fuel burn of this? I have so many sea miles more than you...? I can live this long on my vessel! I will just go around Canada, blah blah.

We Have to be safe in our waters. Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend, every small island and or marina is closed to all vessels even Canadian.
These small islands don’t have much to defend themselves except close there borders, and we all should respect this.


Just stay home and take care of your families.

Versus…

Post 57:

I have been isolated since Mar4 and continue to be. My parents live over there and there older with my mother being very ill so I have my responsibilities. This is year 3 with her battle, so being healthy and germ free has been my life for a long time before Covid. This was naught a boat adventure weekend, rather than an escape from this world for an hr on the water.

I can travel isolated to my pickup and zero contact other than tapping my card at BC Ferries wicket. I have done this trip every 2-3wks for the last 8 months

My boat is in a locked shed so i would say it’s isolated also.

 

[otis maximus]

Hey guys, most have you have hijacked this thread with a bunch of hypothetical what ifs etc.
If you want to start a what if thread go ahead.
O
I asked for help from experienced travelers for a Proposed (planned)Trip late this spring. Of course the travel ban will need to be lifted, of course we wouldn’t break laws, of course we would not purposely or inadvertently want to expose anyone to a possible anything. Could we sail outside? Yes. I’m not delivering oranges to starving miners so the scenic route is preferred. Already invested in my Canadian Courtesy flag and acquired all the needed licenses. But if it’s not to be ....
Sheesh! Why throw all the arrows?
So, did you hear the one about the Keyboard and Chicken Little, it starts like this.......
BonesD

I don't think there reading your post anymore!

 

[BonesD]

Otis, I believe you are correct!
What can ya do!!
Oh well

 

[ksanders]

It's an interesting question about restricting interstate travel during all the meyham. In short, state's can't. The Supreme Court has ruled on it in many ways. And interestingly, the Alaska orders say nothing about restricting interstate travel - because they can't.

What we ARE seeing are requests to quarantine.

Here's a key summary of the most recent Supreme Court decision that's directly relevant:


The U.S. Supreme Court also dealt with the right to travel in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states:
(1) the right to enter one state and leave another (an inherent right with historical support from the Articles of Confederation),
(2) the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the "Privileges and Immunities" clause in Article IV, § 2), and
(3) (for those who become permanent residents of a state) the right to be treated equally to native-born citizens (this is protected by the 14th Amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause; citing the majority opinion in the Slaughter-House Cases, Justice Stevens said, "the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment . . . has always been common ground that this Clause protects the third component of the right to travel.").



More background reading here:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law

Yes interstate travel is subject to quarantine.

In state travel is restricted.

The big thing here is that these small villages have no facilities to treat their own residents. They are by nature isolated and can easily avoid this altogether through isolation.

Also remember that the people in the small villages are scared right now of outsiders. Scared for their very lives at a primal level.

If folks show up at the dock, citing their right to travel, and supreme court case law the folks that live there (who are afraid for their lives) might just cite the caselaw enacted by the likes of John Browning, and Samuel Colt.

Personally I do not live in a small village, so this does not apply to my actions. I have worked in many small villages and would not want to be on the rcieving end of a unwanted welcome. Right now times are different. The same wonderful people that welcome travelers in normal times are literally afraid for their lives right now, and can be expected to behave as such.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thank You Tree for the Court case. Kevin, I understand your concern and that of the small villages. I have a doctor friend that is in Betel. No cases out there yet.

But you can't just throw out the Constitution or Supreme Court cases just because it is inconvenient. These lock downs and states fining you if they catch you outside is simply illegal.

Also my apologizes to the OP for thread drift. We are all coped up......Can we split the thread?

 

[soin2la]

The big thing here is that these small villages have no facilities to treat their own residents.

Also remember that the people in the small villages are scared right now of outsiders.

The same wonderful people that welcome travelers in normal times are literally afraid for their lives right now, and can be expected to behave as such.

Very well said. The people of Bella Coola are living this dilema right now, with people fleeing their permanent, year round residences in populated areas, to the secure isolation of their summer homes in this small village.

Resentments can sometimes be long lasting.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Thank You Tree for the Court case. Kevin, I understand your concern and that of the small villages. I have a doctor friend that is in Betel. No cases out there yet.

But you can't just throw out the Constitution or Supreme Court cases just because it is inconvenient. These lock downs and states fining you if they catch you outside is simply illegal.

Also my apologizes to the OP for thread drift. We are all coped up......Can we split the thread?

Kevin is not overstating the case. There are credible accounts from 1918-20 of villages of 200 and more completely depopulated. No one left to bury the corpses. The Natives all know these tales.

I've been to Bethel, King Salmon, Dillingham, those are "big cities", with daily contact with the outside world; regular air service with 737s, etc.

In the real "bush", in the best of times, any Gussuk who shows up is greeted at the airstrip with overt hostility: Who are you? How soon are you leaving? In this time of plague, I wouldn't be surprised if the greeter were armed; probably not interested in Saenz v. Roe.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Understand and agree. However the question of the government restricting its citizens movements across state lines is illegal.

Kevin is not overstating the case. There are credible accounts from 1918-20 of villages of 200 and more completely depopulated. No one left to bury the corpses. The Natives all know these tales.

I've been to Bethel, King Salmon, Dillingham, those are "big cities", with daily contact with the outside world; regular air service with 737s, etc.

In the real "bush", in the best of times, any Gussuk who shows up is greeted at the airstrip with overt hostility: Who are you? How soon are you leaving? In this time of plague, I wouldn't be surprised if the greeter were armed; probably not interested in Saenz v. Roe.

 

[twistedtree]

Yes interstate travel is subject to quarantine.

In state travel is restricted.

The big thing here is that these small villages have no facilities to treat their own residents. They are by nature isolated and can easily avoid this altogether through isolation.

Also remember that the people in the small villages are scared right now of outsiders. Scared for their very lives at a primal level.

If folks show up at the dock, citing their right to travel, and supreme court case law the folks that live there (who are afraid for their lives) might just cite the caselaw enacted by the likes of John Browning, and Samuel Colt.

Personally I do not live in a small village, so this does not apply to my actions. I have worked in many small villages and would not want to be on the rcieving end of a unwanted welcome. Right now times are different. The same wonderful people that welcome travelers in normal times are literally afraid for their lives right now, and can be expected to behave as such.

Understood, and I'm not trying to suggest people should storm Alaska, or anywhere else. We all have to do everything we can the help.


I do, however, bring it up because there can be a temptation to just ignore laws from time to time. And it's always good to understand what they are, especially the most fundamental ones.

 

[twistedtree]

Okydowky, your lack of reasoning, logic and common sense are right in line with your vessel name; a name I think the locals will find easy to remember.

There has been a significant increase in COVID-19 cases on Vancouver Island in the past week. The virus was brought to us from somewhere else and you have absolutely no way of knowing whether you have carried this virus with you, in either direction.

Travelling from Kelowna, or anywhere else, to Campbell River and spending any time in CR is putting you in contact with essential services and front line workers; in both directions and your decision to do so goes against everything our Provincial Health Officer is saying and rational, understanding people are adhering to.

You are taking a selfish, “me” position and your two posts are contradictory, in stating “you stay home, I’ll go where I please.”

Post 48:

Versus…

Post 57:

OK, let's try not to attack each other.


I'm not advocating storming Alaska, or anywhere else. Civilized people should and will do all they can to help contain this mess. By all measures I've been self-quarantined for 3 weeks now.


So please don't presume or suggest that understanding, supporting, and following our laws is selfish and that I'm running around infecting people. They are completely different things.

 

[twistedtree]

Also remember that the people in the small villages are scared right now of outsiders. Scared for their very lives at a primal level.

If folks show up at the dock, citing their right to travel, and supreme court case law the folks that live there (who are afraid for their lives) might just cite the case law enacted by the likes of John Browning, and Samuel Colt.

They are rightfully concerned, and only an ass-hole would foist themselves on anyone, especially a small community without access to healthcare. That would be "selfish" and "me" as soin2la describes.



I just think it's important to be clear on the difference between an ass-hole and our laws, and to know which we are dealing with at any given time. The law prohibits states from blocking interstate travel. But that's not an invitation to become an ass-hole.



Fortunately, most people will do the right thing, most of the time.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

They are rightfully concerned, and only an ass-hole would foist themselves on anyone, especially a small community without access to healthcare. That would be "selfish" and "me" as soin2la describes.



I just think it's important to be clear on the difference between an ass-hole and our laws, and to know which we are dealing with at any given time. The law prohibits states from blocking interstate travel. But that's not an invitation to become an ass-hole.



Fortunately, most people will do the right thing, most of the time.

Good post and I agree.

 

[Nickair]

Yes,
Fortunately, most people will do the right thing, most of the time.

 

[RedRascal]

Bones, not sure how familiar you are with the waters off the B.C. coast but it can be dicey even in summer. Running outside is a pretty serious endeavor for a recreational boat. Even in summer there can be nasty gale force winds. Common afternoon westerlies will produce 10 foot swells at 10-12 seconds. The forecast may call for 6-8 foot seas but 10 footers will pay you a visit now and then. There are also currents on the outside that need consideration, these can create an ugly sea state with the wind going the wrong way. To run it non-stop I'd say you'd need to be comfortable operating in a gale with 10-15 foot seas. In May or during the summer I am not sure that you would find seas much over 15 but count on 10. You definitely need the right boat for the job to run the outside.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Bones, not sure how familiar you are with the waters off the B.C. coast but it can be dicey even in summer. Running outside is a pretty serious endeavor for a recreational boat. Even in summer there can be nasty gale force winds. Common afternoon westerlies will produce 10 foot swells at 10-12 seconds. The forecast may call for 6-8 foot seas but 10 footers will pay you a visit now and then. There are also currents on the outside that need consideration, these can create an ugly sea state with the wind going the wrong way. To run it non-stop I'd say you'd need to be comfortable operating in a gale with 10-15 foot seas. In May or during the summer I am not sure that you would find seas much over 15 but count on 10. You definitely need the right boat for the job to run the outside.

Weather forecasting can be a challenge too. Environmental Canada might tell you gale winds on south Vancouver Island, yet off the northern part not a ripple on the water.

 

[Okydowky]

Why Do I bother! I ask myself!

Okydowky, your lack of reasoning, logic and common sense are right in line with your vessel name; a name I think the locals will find easy to remember.

There has been a significant increase in COVID-19 cases on Vancouver Island in the past week. The virus was brought to us from somewhere else and you have absolutely no way of knowing whether you have carried this virus with you, in either direction.

Travelling from Kelowna, or anywhere else, to Campbell River and spending any time in CR is putting you in contact with essential services and front line workers; in both directions and your decision to do so goes against everything our Provincial Health Officer is saying and rational, understanding people are adhering to.



You are taking a selfish, “me” position and your two posts are contradictory, in stating “you stay home, I’ll go where I please.”

Post 48:

Versus…

Post 57:

This is my last post on this thread! It’s way off kilter now and so off topic!

Once things get back to normal! If any of you out in the CR or other areas ever need a helping hand please feel free to PM or call us on the radio... lol my wife and I are actually great people and love to help people.

Soin2yrself

LOL! If you require anymore personal contact info from me. Company name, my house address in CR, my results of the Covid test I have to do to take care of my parents. Just let me know, I shall not hide....

Unlike yourself that hides behind his computer!
Oh sorry wasn’t it West Coast? ummm no boat? no name? Yah sums it up.... nothing else to do........but push buttons

Be careful judging people, when you don’t know all the facts. I believe this pops up on many TF threads eventually. There are a lot of smart people on here...

Here is another free fact for you of my personal life! I have 5 kids 4 are married!
1 is a year away from being a Doctor
1 RN
1 LPN
1 CareAid
My Wife is also LPN

The N means Nurse! In case you didn’t know...

We are not exempt to rules, but you better believe we have our **** together when comes to this pandemic safety! When my family needs me it will get done safely.

You need to look up the definition of Aloof? Lol

Someone who keeps to the himself
Distant


So if I own a home in CR and have family up and down the coast from QC, sorry u might only know it as Haida Gwaii to Van. Does this not make me kinda a local if I pay taxes also?

Ok sorry Mr West Coast I have to go do payroll for my employees who haven’t worked for 3 weeks. And get ready to go to CR...

 

[soin2la]

I have 5 kids 4 are married!
1 is a year away from being a Doctor
1 RN
1 LPN
1 CareAid
My Wife is also LPN

Troy, with that many healthcare workers in your family, not only does the risk of being carriers increase, but they should all be telling you what the Provincial Health Officer is saying; “stay at home.”

If you think you can routinely move between two viral hotspots, without raising the risk to yourself and others, you have you head in your hawsehole.

 

[soin2la]

Part II, Troy; “A tiny bit of denial.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...th-care-workers-hospitals-vancouver-1.5516280

Please go back and read ksanders impassioned pleas at posts 42, 51, 59, 71 and Norther Spy at post 56.

https://youtu.be/93bsgdOLjak

 

[BonesD]

Thank you, we have no interest in going on the outside just mentioned it could be done. It’s looking less and less that it will happen this year as planned. Mean while the folks that actually responded to the original question thank you all. My brother has spent about 40 hours plotting all of the good bad and the ugly spots along the way. When the time comes we will benefit from your experience and generosity!
And I hope the rest of y’all healthy days ahead! Yahoo!!

 

[Conrad]

Troy, given your responsibilities to your parents you are very welcome here in CR. Folks here are very observant of the rules; social distancing is done with a smile, and people are only out for necessary errands or walking in isolation.
Important facts:
JAK's is one of the few, if only, liquor stores open (Discovery Mall).
Most grocery stores are open, and are lightly populated. Protection screens are around the checkout areas everywhere.
Getting away from the dock and anchoring in a quiet cove is the ultimate self isolation.

 

[soin2la]

Conrad, no one is denying the friendliness of the people in Campbell River, or that Troy shouldn’t be concerned about his parents.

What is being stressed is, moving back and forth between communities, is a behavior that puts the traveler and others in his path, at risk.

If you have been watching the daily briefings of the BC Provincial Health Officer, you would be hearing both her and the Health Minister, forcefully insisting that people stay home.

Encouraging Troy to commute, is not responsible and perhaps he should pick Kelowna or Campbell River and stay put. He does not have the right to put others at risk with regular 1200km (800mi) round trips through many small towns with limited medical facilities.

To suggest the number 1 “Important fact” is the location of an open liquor store, hints that you may be in the 12% of Canadians, who think COVID-19 is overblown.

 

[Nickair]

This is a consideration for traveling the inside passage.

Special Notice COVID-19 advisory
Notice Number: NOTC0072


SPECIAL NOTICE.. OPERATORS ARE ADVISED THAT,IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID-19 CRISIS, SOME STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE IMPLEMENTED QUARANTINE AND SHELTER IN PLACE ORDERS THAT COULD AFFECT DEBOARDING PERSONS UPON ARRIVALS AT AIRPORTS WITHIN THEIR BORDERS. PILOTS AND OPERATORS SHOULD FAMILIARIZE THEMSELVES WITH ANY SUCH ORDERS THAT MAY BE IN EFFECT AT THEIR ARRIVAL AIRPORTS PRIOR TO DEPARTURE.

 

[tugboater]

Hello, I am hoping to travel up the Inside Passage in late May. We will be leaving Sequim and heading for Petersburg AK.
I am hoping to find folks that have made the trip and are willing to share their experience.
Routes, stops, good anchorages, fuel stops and safe havens. All he things that others have learned by doing or instructions from others.
I hope I can find some good soles willing to share.
Thanks

Never made the trip for fun (hope to some day), but have many times towing a barge. Before the days of the "eye in the sky" we used to stop at a few places along the way. My favorite was Warm Springs Bay, if you explore north of Ketchikan, you gotta take a dip there! I'm sure with a little digging you'll find all the information you're looking for. If you are curious the common routes of commercial vessels, PM me & I'll figure out a way to share. Best of luck to you!