Inside Passage Travel Route

[rsn48]

you could always travel north out beyond Canadian waters,

Sounds like a plan, of course Canadian water jurisdiction is 200 nautical miles (note: not miles) out. So make sure the weather window extends for a bit of time.

 

[foreverunderway]

you could always travel north out beyond Canadian waters,

Sounds like a plan, of course Canadian water jurisdiction is 200 nautical miles (note: not miles) out. So make sure the weather window extends for a bit of time.

I sincerely doubt they are patrolling beyond the 12 mile limit, which is the minimum I'd want to be offshore anyway. I believe the 200 is fisheries, etc.
"Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state."

 

[Portage_Bay]

you could always travel north out beyond Canadian waters,

Sounds like a plan, of course Canadian water jurisdiction is 200 nautical miles (note: not miles) out. So make sure the weather window extends for a bit of time.

With all due respect to my Canadian neighbors and Canada's right and responsibility to protect her citizens and resources I concur with foreverunderway. Foreigners need only travel out 12 nm to as long as we are not mining, fishing etc.

I sincerely doubt they are patrolling beyond the 12 mile limit, which is the minimum I'd want to be offshore anyway. I believe the 200 is fisheries, etc.
"Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state."

And apparently so does Canada. Please refer to the Oceans Act for a definitions of Canada's territorial sea and contiguous zone and on the next page the Exclusive Economic Zone then read on to the Sovereign rights and jurisdiction of Canada.

I note that staying outside 12 nm the distance from Neah Bay, the northern most US port with fuel available to Ketchikan is 600 nm. It's gonna be a long demanding trip in a typical recreational trawler with no room for mistakes.

 

[Ken E.]

"It's gonna be a long demanding trip in a typical recreational trawler with no room for mistakes."

So true. A trip up the outside is one that I, personally, would never attempt. We have made many trips up the inside to SE AK and I worked on salmon seiners out of Juneau while in college, running them up from Seattle on the inside, non-stop. But 600 miles of day and night ocean running with the constant possiblity of the weather going to hell and lots of logs to dodge at night is way beyond my comfort level. And frankly, I don't think that my present Hatteras is up to the task if things got down, dirty, and really rough. Anyone considering doing this should take a really hard look at it, and realize that it's twice as far as going from Cape Spencer to Cordova, which itself is a very big deal.

Thinking about it a little more, I would in fact, run up the outside.....in an ocean-going tug of about 150'+, with a good weather forecast!

 

[foreverunderway]

600 nm. It's gonna be a long demanding trip in a typical recreational trawler with no room for mistakes.

It really shouldn't be all that demanding, if the weather doesn't go bad. 3.1 days @ 8 knots, 6 on and 6 off for a couple, IF they have a good autopilot. 6 on and 6 off isn't too long on watch if one isn't steering and allows plenty of sleeping time. Enclosed pilot house et. al. so comfort and cold/wet shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have done the long distant travel with just the Admiral from S.F. to the Columbia River Bar in 3 days and 2 nights straight. Was not fun and I won't do it again.

Well I love BC, so I will wait and fix those nagging issues on the boat that seem never to get fixed. i.e. Did you know you have to update your Fusion radio? I do now.....

 

[Portage_Bay]

I'm gonna disagree with you. I have over 15 years experience standing 6 and 6 watches with a crew of 2. It's exhausting when things break or need tending to which is all too likely on a 600 mile voyage. And odds are, based on experience, you won't be able to make anywhere near 8 kts good unless you get flat calm all the way and your boat can sustain 8 kts.

It really shouldn't be all that demanding, if the weather doesn't go bad. 3.1 days @ 8 knots, 6 on and 6 off for a couple, IF they have a good autopilot. 6 on and 6 off isn't too long on watch if one isn't steering and allows plenty of sleeping time. Enclosed pilot house et. al. so comfort and cold/wet shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Ken E.]

I'm gonna disagree with you. I have over 15 years experience standing 6 and 6 watches with a crew of 2. It's exhausting when things break or need tending to which is all too likely on a 600 mile voyage. And odds are, based on experience, you won't be able to make anywhere near 8 kts good unless you get flat calm all the way and your boat can sustain 8 kts.

Agree. Also, current is north to south so you're running uphill, diminishing your speed made good. Combine that with the winds early in the season which are typically southerly butting into the current and the result is rough conditions when the wind comes up. I don't want to be there.

 

[foreverunderway]

I'm gonna disagree with you. I have over 15 years experience standing 6 and 6 watches with a crew of 2. It's exhausting when things break or need tending to which is all too likely on a 600 mile voyage. And odds are, based on experience, you won't be able to make anywhere near 8 kts good unless you get flat calm all the way and your boat can sustain 8 kts.

I've been operating small craft (under 80 feet) and larger now and then for over 5 decades professionally and haven't found 6/6 to be especially taxing, but perhaps as a professional the standard of maintenance on the vessels I operated was a bit better than non-professionally operated vessels. Breakdowns are not something I expect or have had to deal with often.
I've occasionally done 12&12 on voyages of thousands of miles without problems if, as I said, the autopilot is reliable so that the watch stander mostly has nothing more to do than keep a good watch, and make the occasional pot of coffee.

As to the speed of the vessel one is operating, that is of course dependent on the craft itself. I assume most twin screw trawlers could maintain 10 knots if necessary, but on a voyage of this length I wouldn't be operating at the highest end of the vessel's operating range.
Everything does depend on fuel capacity and consumption. I think I did mention in my post about weather, and normally, in my experience, a forecast is fairly reliable for about three days from the time of reception.
If it was my vacation/cruise, I'd rather put in three days of voyaging than trash the whole thing for an indeterminate period of time. But that's just me, and the decision of any boat's captain is something his experience, trust in his vessel and comfort level should determine.

 

[rslifkin]

On the weather forecast thing, personally I'd run at the highest speed that still gives adequate fuel range with good reserve. Of course, a lot of us on here don't have the fuel range to do it within a reasonable weather window (or at any speed in some cases).

 

[foreverunderway]

On the weather forecast thing, personally I'd run at the highest speed that still gives adequate fuel range with good reserve. Of course, a lot of us on here don't have the fuel range to do it within a reasonable weather window (or at any speed in some cases).

Obviously, if one doesn't have the speed or range, though I've deck loaded fuel in drums a number of times, it isn't something anyone would attempt.
The left coast is not someplace to mess about when the weather is unpleasant!

 

[ksanders]

For anybody considering travel in Alaska...

You CANNOT travel between communities effective March 28th at 1700 hours.

Violation is subject to up to one year in prison and a $25,000 fine

Please DO NOT take a chance of infecting our many small communities that have Zero medical resources and are geographically isolated.

Please respect our laws and our safety, and We hope to see you next summer when this is all behind us.

At that time the beer is on me for anybody making it to Seward Alaska or Prince William Sound!

 

[Nomad Willy]

The only real choice in route is the back channels or Johnstone Strait. Except for one time I’ve always gone the back channels and the one time I ran the strait was southbound in late summer.
Another deviation I made was southbound down Principe Channel instead of Grenville Channel.
Otherwise it’s just the obvious route.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

There's a reason cruisers circumnavigate Vancouver Island counter clock-wise.

 

[Nickair]

As it is National Emergency declared in USA, it likely is in Canada due to their closing borders to non essential. I was in Canadian waters during 911. The Canadian Navy was patrolling with many ships. I was detained for three hours, on the return run, then released Upon a personal background check with the US. Also remember that things can change Without notice, while underway. Keep apprised when steaming. Also consider what situation you may find upon an emergency, God forbid.

 

[twistedtree]

Isn't this whole issue of "passing through" vs entering a country all steeped i maritime law. I thought it was universal that a boat can transit another country's territorial waters, inside or outside, without "entering" the country. And that the test for "entry" is a port call, anchoring, or meeting up with another vessel.


So I don't think it makes any difference whether you run outside or inside. And a boarder being closed doesn't matter if you don't seek to enter the country. And unless you call on a port, anchor, or meet up with another boat, you haven't entered the country. In other words, when in a boat, crossing the boarder and entering the country are two different things.


If Canada were to close the inside passage, I think it would be taking a major exception to maritime law. Not that they couldn't do it, but it would be a radical move, and I think quite unnecessary in the current situation.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Isn't this whole issue of "passing through" vs entering a country all steeped i maritime law. I thought it was universal that a boat can transit another country's territorial waters, inside or outside, without "entering" the country. And that the test for "entry" is a port call, anchoring, or meeting up with another vessel.


So I don't think it makes any difference whether you run outside or inside. And a boarder being closed doesn't matter if you don't seek to enter the country. And unless you call on a port, anchor, or meet up with another boat, you haven't entered the country. In other words, when in a boat, crossing the boarder and entering the country are two different things.


If Canada were to close the inside passage, I think it would be taking a major exception to maritime law. Not that they couldn't do it, but it would be a radical move, and I think quite unnecessary in the current situation.

I understand the concept. But.... all nations have to draw the line somewhere. I do see a difference between coastal travel inside the 12 nm territorial seas and travel between two land masses. For example passing between Vacouver Island and the mainland or passing between Graham / Morseby Ilands and the mainland.

Would the US tolerate foreign boats using the ICW if they didn't stop?

 

[Okydowky]

For anybody considering travel in Alaska...

You CANNOT travel between communities effective March 28th at 1700 hours.

Violation is subject to up to one year in prison and a $25,000 fine

Please DO NOT take a chance of infecting our many small communities that have Zero medical resources and are geographically isolated.

Please respect our laws and our safety, and We hope to see you next summer when this is all behind us.

At that time the beer is on me for anybody making it to Seward Alaska or Prince William Sound!

Thank you! I was patiently waiting for someone in Alaska to chime in. So many people just don’t get this pandemic, and what it can do to a small community.

They can’t stop me!! I have a fuel burn of this? I have so many sea miles more than you...? I can live this long on my vessel! I will just go around Canada, blah blah.

We Have to be safe in our waters. Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend, every small island and or marina is closed to all vessels even Canadian.
These small islands don’t have much to defend themselves except close there borders, and we all should respect this.


Just stay home and take care of your families.

 

[Northern Spy]

I understand the concept. But.... all nations have to draw the line somewhere. I do see a difference between coastal travel inside the 12 nm territorial seas and travel between two land masses. For example passing between Vacouver Island and the mainland or passing between Graham / Morseby Ilands and the mainland.

Would the US tolerate foreign boats using the ICW if they didn't stop?

It has been a point of contention for many years (research "salmon wars").

The fishing vessels that transit the inside passage have been granted transit clearance from the DFO to protect Canadian fishing interests in the EEZ. This is different and in addition to being granted clearance from VTS. There are agreements between the Canada and the US for both countries to fish tuna 12 miles offshore both Canada and the US.

I doubt that the US and Canada want to go at it again for some recreational boater trying out the UN Convention of the Sea Innocent Passage and Straits used for International Navigation during a worldwide pandemic.

The USCG may very well stop you before you get to the border before the CCG or RCMP do. You would probably be treated like one of the Freeman on the Land yahoos.

 

[BonesD]

This post was originally to ask of experiences and route information. Fortunately there were some very nice responses fro folks willing so share. But....then it’s seems to have taken a wrong turn along the way.

 

[ksanders]

Thank you! I was patiently waiting for someone in Alaska to chime in. So many people just don’t get this pandemic, and what it can do to a small community.

They can’t stop me!! I have a fuel burn of this? I have so many sea miles more than you...? I can live this long on my vessel! I will just go around Canada, blah blah.

We Have to be safe in our waters. Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend, every small island and or marina is closed to all vessels even Canadian.
These small islands don’t have much to defend themselves except close there borders, and we all should respect this.


Just stay home and take care of your families.

Thanks!

Sometimes I think People DO NOT read. They see what they want to see.

So, I’ll say it again, in big letters.

STAY OUT OF ALASKA

COMING TO ALASKA IS ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW. MOVING BETWEEN OUR COMMUNITIES IS ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW.

PLEASE RESPECT OUR LAWS AND OUR COMMUNITIES SAFETY!

Here are links to the official Alaskan Government mandates

https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/AKDHSS-283a7de

https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/AKDHSS-283a713

 

[Stabi]

They can’t stop me!! I have a fuel burn of this? I have so many sea miles more than you...? I can live this long on my vessel! I will just go around Canada, blah blah.

We Have to be safe in our waters. Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend,

Just stay home and take care of your families.

While I TOTALLY agree with all the stay at home orders, if you live in W Kelowna, why did you travel to Campbell River?

 

[Conrad]

We Have to be safe in our waters. Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend, every small island and or marina is closed to all vessels even Canadian.
These small islands don’t have much to defend themselves except close there borders, and we all should respect this.

Hey there Oky...totally agree with your sentiments. I too am berthed in CR, in Discovery Harbour, and as this is the regular stopping point for boats heading north & south every year, I certainly don't want to see any pestilence ridden boats passing through.
Was also out last weekend - Von Donop - and the only other boats out were sail. No idea if there is a message there.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Ksanders & Okydowky,

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of cruising to BC or Ak. I think it's a bunch of stuck at home boaters with not much to do so we're tossing ideas of inside passage vs outside back and forth on TF. It becomes immediately obvious that most of us in our current boats can't or don't want to run to Ak non stop, inside or outside.

Okydowky in post #48 you said "Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend..."

I gotta ask you. What is the conceptual difference between a local boat going for a cruise and a visiting boat going for a cruise as long as neither boat touches shore, does not dock and the people never go ashore or interact with locals during their voyage? Neither poses any risk to the local population. Just because a boat is crewed by locals does not mean they are not carrying the virus. I have to assume everyone I come in contact with is infected and that I am infected. We're contagious up to 14 days prior to showing symptoms, some never show symptoms but are carrying and spreading the virus. That's what is so sneaky about this virus.

I'm not suggesting violating any laws, national or local. If an area is closed, it's closed. I'll honor that as well as honoring my local stay at home order.

 

[ksanders]

Ksanders & Okydowky,

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of cruising to BC or Ak. I think it's a bunch of stuck at home boaters with not much to do so we're tossing ideas of inside passage vs outside back and forth on TF. It becomes immediately obvious that most of us in our current boats can't or don't want to run to Ak non stop, inside or outside.

Okydowky in post #48 you said "Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend..."

I gotta ask you. What is the conceptual difference between a local boat going for a cruise and a visiting boat going for a cruise as long as neither boat touches shore, does not dock and the people never go ashore or interact with locals during their voyage? Neither poses any risk to the local population. Just because a boat is crewed by locals does not mean they are not carrying the virus. I have to assume everyone I come in contact with is infected and that I am infected. We're contagious up to 14 days prior to showing symptoms, some never show symptoms but are carrying and spreading the virus. That's what is so sneaky about this virus.

I'm not suggesting violating any laws, national or local. If an area is closed, it's closed. I'll honor that as well as honoring my local stay at home order.

So first off, Alaska is a sovereign state and our government has implimented laws barring your coming here unless you meet specific quarantine requirements. We have also barred travel between communities.

The reason for this, and anybody else's perception of the risks are not relevant. What matters is that people need to abide by our laws wether they agree with them or not.

From a practical standpoint your thought of coming to Alaska and not entering our communities is not real. You ARE going to go to our small isolated villages. You ARE going to go into our stores to reprovision. When you do that you introduce a threat vector into those communities.

Also from a practical standpoint do not expect to be greeted with open arms. People are frightened right now and cautious of “outsiders”. You might not even be allowed to dock.

Remember that rural Alaska is not the big city. In many smaller communities the law enforcement might be a single person or a couple of people. If the locals are afraid of you coming to their community you could easily be turned away and if anyone tries to force the issue the results could be unpleasant.

 

[Northern Spy]

Ksanders & Okydowky,

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of cruising to BC or Ak. I think it's a bunch of stuck at home boaters with not much to do so we're tossing ideas of inside passage vs outside back and forth on TF. It becomes immediately obvious that most of us in our current boats can't or don't want to run to Ak non stop, inside or outside.

Okydowky in post #48 you said "Our boat is in Campbell River which is on the inside passage, we were out for a cruise last weekend..."

I gotta ask you. What is the conceptual difference between a local boat going for a cruise and a visiting boat going for a cruise as long as neither boat touches shore, does not dock and the people never go ashore or interact with locals during their voyage? Neither poses any risk to the local population. Just because a boat is crewed by locals does not mean they are not carrying the virus. I have to assume everyone I come in contact with is infected and that I am infected. We're contagious up to 14 days prior to showing symptoms, some never show symptoms but are carrying and spreading the virus. That's what is so sneaky about this virus.

I'm not suggesting violating any laws, national or local. If an area is closed, it's closed. I'll honor that as well as honoring my local stay at home order.

I'll bite. Because things on occasion go wrong and you will not remain autonomous when someone has a heart attack or breaks a leg. Now all of the sudden your best intentions have now imposed a demand upon the nearest community with already limited resources.

 

[Okydowky]

While I TOTALLY agree with all the stay at home orders, if you live in W Kelowna, why did you travel to Campbell River?

I have been isolated since Mar4 and continue to be. My parents live over there and there older with my mother being very ill so I have my responsibilities. This is year 3 with her battle, so being healthy and germ free has been my life for a long time before Covid. This was naught a boat adventure weekend, rather than an escape from this world for an hr on the water.

I can travel isolated to my pickup and zero contact other than tapping my card at BC Ferries wicket. I have done this trip every 2-3wks for the last 8 months

My boat is in a locked shed so i would say it’s isolated also.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Kevin Sanders,
Do you remember in the 60's when so many hippies were coming to Alaska? The troopers met some as they came off the plane and told them to get right back on the return flight.

As I recall it only lasted for a few days. Now it appears the few people in Alaska still think the whole state in theirs only. With the world population growing fast that won't get much traction in times like these.

 

[ksanders]

Kevin Sanders,
Do you remember in the 60's when so many hippies were coming to Alaska? The troopers met some as they came off the plane and told them to get right back on the return flight.

As I recall it only lasted for a few days. Now it appears the few people in Alaska still think the whole state in theirs only. With the world population growing fast that won't get much traction in times like these.

Doesn’t matter what you think. Our governor under state laws has barred travel between communities and barred entry unless one meets strict quarantine requirements.

He has also under state law allowed local jurisdictions the authority to enforce and add to those restrictions.

Folks, right now we have less than a hundred cases in our state, and community spread is only happening in Anchorage and Ketchican. If people respect our laws, lives will be saved.

Beers on me next summer when we have a vaccine but for now, lets respect each others laws, and maybe, just maybe we can keep some folks from dying in the process.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thanks!

Sometimes I think People DO NOT read. They see what they want to see.

So, I’ll say it again, in big letters.

STAY OUT OF ALASKA

COMING TO ALASKA IS ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW. MOVING BETWEEN OUR COMMUNITIES IS ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW.

PLEASE RESPECT OUR LAWS AND OUR COMMUNITIES SAFETY!

Here are links to the official Alaskan Government mandates

https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/AKDHSS-283a7de

https://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/AKDHSS-283a713

So first off, Alaska is a sovereign state and our government has implimented laws barring your coming here unless you meet specific quarantine requirements. We have also barred travel between communities.

The reason for this, and anybody else's perception of the risks are not relevant. What matters is that people need to abide by our laws wether they agree with them or not.

From a practical standpoint your thought of coming to Alaska and not entering our communities is not real. You ARE going to go to our small isolated villages. You ARE going to go into our stores to reprovision. When you do that you introduce a threat vector into those communities.

Also from a practical standpoint do not expect to be greeted with open arms. People are frightened right now and cautious of “outsiders”. You might not even be allowed to dock.

Remember that rural Alaska is not the big city. In many smaller communities the law enforcement might be a single person or a couple of people. If the locals are afraid of you coming to their community you could easily be turned away and if anyone tries to force the issue the results could be unpleasant.

Doesn’t matter what you think. Our governor under state laws has barred travel between communities and barred entry unless one meets strict quarantine requirements.

He has also under state law allowed local jurisdictions the authority to enforce and add to those restrictions.

Folks, right now we have less than a hundred cases in our state, and community spread is only happening in Anchorage and Ketchican. If people respect our laws, lives will be saved.

Beers on me next summer when we have a vaccine but for now, lets respect each others laws, and maybe, just maybe we can keep some folks from dying in the process.

OK Kevin. I understand the issue with small villages.

However, the "Executive Orders" that Gov. Mike has issued are NOT laws. Only the legislature can enact and create laws so long as Gov. Mike signs off or it is not overridden.

Same as in Washington and Oregon. These executive orders, in my opinion, are not valid and unconstitutional. Marshall Law has not been enacted yet the States Governors feel they have a right to involve Marshall Law without declaring it.

Again, I fully understand these small villages that are so very vulnerable. I have a friend who is a doctor in Bethel. They are very worried. But then again they were worried with N1H1 too.