How to Value Repowered Engines

[Benthic2]

Going by the original post it becomes a fairly straightforward financial analysis.

$35k premium for 2 engines
$17.5k per engine
2750 hours less

This means you are paying $6.36/hour of useage.

To see if this is reasonable, we need to estimate the life expectancy of an engine and multiply it by the above usage rate. Take a look at the table below and see if the replacement cost seems reasonable for one engine. If the replacement cost seems OK, then the $6.36/hour premium is reasonable.

 

[Dougcole]

Is there not a point where one would be skeptical about the well respected 3208 nats? They are 50 years old!

Look at the newer boat...... probably had 3208 Cats in it as well originally. The previous owner had some sort of engine problem, and had many options..... rebuild, remans, repair, and total repower..... We all know about these options and we've all heard how financially unwise repowering is. Most of us with older boats dream about repowering if the time comes. Common advice is to avoid doing so, and buy a different boat. But this guy didn't take any of these options. He chose the expensive route. 700 hours and 7 years later, it's for sale, and we don't think these engines command a $37k premium compared to 50 year old Nats? I'm not buying it.

Do let us know what you decide; good luck!

I agree with this.


Plus, the $110K boat has significant upgrades in addition to the better/newer engines.


I'm not buying the idea that a PAIR of 14 year old modern, lighter, smaller, cleaner more powerful engines from a better respected (in current times) manufacturer only add a few thousand dollars over engines that are 50 years old, have 4 times the hours, are heavier, less powerful, less efficient, take up more space, likely leak/burn oil, may be hard to find parts for and smoke.


Will the seller recoup his entire repower investment? No. But he is not trying to do that. I would assume that he knows he got a ton of benefit from the repower (see the list of the DD's shortcomings above) in the 14 years of running the boat with the Yanmars as opposed to the DDs.


I wouldn't even consider the DD boat compared to the Yanmar boat unless I just couldn't afford it.

 

[gsholz]

The 3208NAs were fine low stressed engines in their days. Today, some parts are getting very hard to find. Example: cast iron exhaust riser. They last a long time but will eventually leak and ruin the engine. You need four of them. Two years ago, the price was $1560 each. I went with dry stainless steel custom risers for half the cost. The 3208NAs have two ring pistons-they smoke. If you ever have to open them up, I suggest upgrading to the three ring pistons.

The engine upgrade in todays prices would likely be around $100k. 35k premium for 700 hr Yanmars seems like a good deal but given it is a custom installation, make sure the exhaust risers do not allow water to back up into the engine.

 

[ancora]

But, but, ...you chose Volvos..which you hate...with a vengeance.

OP, tread very carefully with this advice.

We bought the boat with total ignorance of VOLVO engines, my bad. If I knew then what I know now, I would've never bought the boat.

 

[rsn48]

Costs for repower:
1) removing old engine and haul away
2) Prep hull and maybe transom for new engine
3) price of new engine and supporting items, new props? etc.
4) transporting new engine and materiel
5) Installing new engine and items, including new wiring, etc.
6) testing new engines and sea trials.

 

[BobnDoc]

Enough already! You are comparing a well updated boat and an old tub. The broker for the repowered even hints at a possible big discount. Make a decent offer (eg $85,000) for the updated one and see how soft that asking price is, or it’s time to cut bait.

 

[TugLover]

Under contract

Thanks so much for everyone's thoughtful replies. It was great to see the debate and it was very helpful.

We were able to get the seller of the '72 Tolly with the repowered Yanmars down to $92K from his $110K asking price. We have the conditions survey and engine survey next week, so we'll see what we find and if we are going to close.

FWIW, we ended up at $92K by using the following math:

$72,000: Market price (PNW), average condition 1972 Tolly TriCabin w/ original twin Cats

+$42K: Repowered Yanmars, upgraded stainless railings, brand new Kubota genset, newer hydronic heat to all spaces including flybridge

-$22K: Some windows need replacement, interior needs new carpet, minor refinishing, no dinghy, obsolete nav electronics.

We'll see how the surveys go and let you know whether we close.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[mpstan]

Thanks so much for everyone's thoughtful replies. It was great to see the debate and it was very helpful.

We were able to get the seller of the '72 Tolly with the repowered Yanmars down to $92K from his $110K asking price. We have the conditions survey and engine survey next week, so we'll see what we find and if we are going to close.

FWIW, we ended up at $92K by using the following math:

$72,000: Market price (PNW), average condition 1972 Tolly TriCabin w/ original twin Cats

+$42K: Repowered Yanmars, upgraded stainless railings, brand new Kubota genset, newer hydronic heat to all spaces including flybridge

-$22K: Some windows need replacement, interior needs new carpet, minor refinishing, no dinghy, obsolete nav electronics.

We'll see how the surveys go and let you know whether we close.

Thanks again for all the help!

Great to hear; good luck!

 

[Pete Meisinger]

You probably made the right choice. Only you can answer that issue.

But, White carpet in the Saloon? Never.

pete

 

[Comodave]

Good choice.

 

[TugLover]

Postscript

Here's just a little postscript to let those of you who posted know how things ended up.

As noted, we had an offer accepted at $92K. We did a sea trial as well as both engine and boat conditions surveys. The Yanmars had not been operated much over the past 1-2 years. They smoked a fair amount and the smoke did not go away after warm-up. Blue smoke. The engine mechanic suggested we probably needed to pull and service the injectors, and if that did not correct the smoke, he thought perhaps a turbo rebuild might be required. But the engines did operate smoothly, quietly, powerfully throughout the sea trial.

There were a number of lesser survey discoveries, such as worn cutlass bearings and dead genset battery, but otherwise there wasn't anything too significant found.

We got a $3K price reduction to $89K to cover the planned remedial engine maintenance (to reduce the smoke) and crossed our fingers it's not really a turbo issue. But since the engines only have low hours, that is a less likely outcome.

We'll take ownership in 2 weeks or so, and then off we go exploring the inland waters of Puget Sound, Desolation Sound, and beyond.

Thanks again to all those who posted.

 

[soin2la]

Thanks for the update, I hope it all works out.

Don't count on Desolation Sound this year, unless you are into winter cruising.

 

[Comodave]

Congrats on your new boat. Have a lot of fun with it.

 

[mpstan]

Update on your new boat? How are the Yanmars doing for you?

 

[TugLover]

Hi mpstan!

The Yanmars are doing well. They were smoking non-stop when I bought the boat, but that was only during sea trials and other short-duration outings. Then I ran them for about 7 hours bringing the boat down from Anacortes and Seattle. And that included running at WOT for about 30 minutes. That pretty much eliminated the smoking altogether, except for a little for a couple of minutes on startup, like most any diesel. While I cruise at 10-12 knots, the boat will do 24 knots at WOT, so that's pretty useful.

I've changed all the fluids, filters, impellers, strainers, etc on the engine, I haven't got around to the heat exchangers yet, but there are no signs of issues at the moment.

Thanks for asking!!