How many engines is ideal?

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House aft (we call them Schooners) are shallower draft and flat bottom for sitting in the mud, smaller rudders and are are twins. Most are around 100' class. The pic is a stretched 100 (now 129') I drove. I spent half the summer on one engine, negotiating tight channels and a mass of sport boats, pretty much sucked..:) These boats handle poorly at low speed anyhow. No thruster, underpowered if down to one engine. 1Cornelia Marie-2.jpg

All house forward boats like mine and North Western are single mains. A few added thrusters later, but most are not. Alaska winters can be brutal, this shot is my buddy (single main) departing the dock in +70 its. so I can get in. In the Aleutians, Seafood production does not halt for weather.
 

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Ever been into False Pass Capt?

I was the radioman and town doctor (first aid man) there in 1960.
KWF27
 
Worked the summer season of ‘85 on a boat out of Dutch Harbor. Still have the pic when we went through false pass. Had more hair and less weight then
 
Nomad Willy said:
Ever been into False Pass Capt?

I was the radioman and town doctor (first aid man) there in 1960.
KWF27
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I first saw False Pass in 1980, been there more times than I can count squeezing in and out of the Bering Sea. Wow, 1960 the cannery must have been full on, it's all mothballed now. Beautiful.
 
Lollygag1 said:
Worked the summer season of ‘85 on a boat out of Dutch Harbor. Still have the pic when we went through false pass. Had more hair and less weight then
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Didn't we all, mid-eighties they finally placed some buoys in the channel, with GPS we made regular passes through, but still either rubbed bottom or only had a foot of clearance. 16' draft.
 
Twins are what is known as a k-out-of-n parallel configuration with active redundancy. You need 1 out of 2 to function even though both operate at the same time. You are only as reliable as the product of the reliability of each series component in each drivetrain. Having two parallel It is not twice as reliable.

A wing engine is a standby redundant system with nonidentical independent components. If the reliability of the standby is higher than the main, then the system would have a higher overall reliability.

I would rather go to sea with a reliable main and standby than less reliable twins.
 
I have been driving both, singles and duel inboards. I own a single. The singe takes more skill. Non-sailboat singles take a little more “get acquainted” time before close maneuvering around other boats but I prefer the singles especially to own at maintenance time.
 
Some times twins are less reliable. On cruising cats the engines are far enough apart you don’t need a bow thruster. One in forward./One in reverse and you spin. But if the goal is to go forward at any kind of velocity the rudders aren’t sufficient to overcome the helm produced by the imbalance of only having one functioning. Either breaks depending on how far apart and size/placement of the rudders you may be going in circles. Now you have two key systems and have increased risk.
On a sailboat low speed handling stinks. Better on high aspect fin then full keel but still miserable. Especially backing up. But you have prop walk. A blessing and a curse. Note that on single screw power shaft angle is usually lower than a twin. Prop is more enclosed and closer to the canoe body. Also note there’s less rocker to the aft sections of the hull and usually a actual keel running much the length of the boat. Would think all these factors would lead to less prop walk. Twins are counter rotating, with significant shaft angle and at some distance apart. Would think one of the major advantages of twins is slow speed maneuvering.
 
Regarding a single and a wing versus twins in the Artnautica, to make a fair comparison, you would need to know what the engine options for main and wing are versus twins. Twins in the 40 to 75 HP range are pretty small. Does the manufacturer recommend a minimum size for a wing and what speed will it make?

Ted
 
There’s another practicality. There are more 75hp Yanmars (now 80hp) around everywhere as they are probably the most common cruising sailboat engine. Even getting Volvo parts in the Caribbean can be difficult and same for Beta. People who have the time and money to get Artnautica aren’t going to be on the beaten path. If they are going to a harbor with marine services available it probably will have sailboats and some small commercial craft. Suspect they will pick engines where it’s more likely parts and service are available. Believe current boats are being spec’d with twin 80s. Only the first few had a single.
 
Beta are marinized Kubota which I understand to have decent global availability. Deere are another possibility that also have global distribution. For me, either would be a preferred choice vs Yanmar in this size range. I don't know why I have an aversion to Yanmars. I just prefer big, old fashioned iron.

I haven't really thought through the permutations of engine repair in far flung reaches which cruising, but need to. I carry decent engine spares, but haven't really though what-if scenarios for international destinations like Western Caribbean . Many years ago, I bought an old VW van to drive down to Mexico thinking getting VW parts would be a snap. Turns out there were two engine/model years that were never distributed in Mexico. My 1974 Westfalia had one of them.

Nigel Calder had a methodology for triaging parts based on ease of carrying and likelihood of failure and impact if it fails.

Finally, I recently traded notes with a guy who has cruised since the days of sextant navigation. He carried raw materials like copper tubing and fittings. He also suggested a MIG welder which is relatively small.

I think you have to make a decision on desired level of independence which goes beyond redundancy or spares. Otherwise with these complicated systems, you end up tied to major yachting centers for skilled repairs.

Peter
 
TrawlerCap, good stuff. I have a lot of respect for people who operate in that part of the world.
 
trawlercap said:
I first saw False Pass in 1980, been there more times than I can count squeezing in and out of the Bering Sea. Wow, 1960 the cannery must have been full on, it's all mothballed now. Beautiful.
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Captain,
In 1960 Peter Pan Seafoods was owned or/and run by Nick Beeze. And definitely not full on. I was the so-called doctor (basically a college kid) and the last of a medical team that at it’s high point (30’s) had several doctors and at least a dozen nurses. But in 1960 the cannery was far from dead.

Do you remember the Midas? She had a 22’ dory as a shore boat, life boat or/and dinghy on davit’s on the stern. I talked them into dropping the big dory into the water for me to row to the eastern shore. There I climbed a 150’ grassy hill and saw the biggest bear of my life. Probably 2-300’ away from me. It’s hairy hide rolling back and forth as it strolled along. No sign the bear knew of my presence and I scooted knowing a relaunch of the big dory may take some time. Never saw the bear again. And the dory was capable of a bit more speed on the return row. There were a lot of bears there.
 
Wow Peter that’s well above my skill set. While working did a vocational tech welding course. Just for kicks and giggles. TIG,MIG and stick. Loved the plasma cutter. Sense of real satisfaction when I learned to pull a puddle overhead or on a vertical. Great fun after dealing with Harvard eggheads and too many entitled people.
We’re leaning toward a lugger for just that reason. Friend is a cranberry grower so familiar helping him with JD in all sizes and Kubuta which is in several of his tractors. Have had a terrible time with anything coming out of Fiat regardless of what name ends up on it. Everyone I know curses Volvo for parts availability but have no personal experience. Had a Lehman and even in New England there was only one real source for parts. Beta seems a nice simple engine and have friends who have repowering luck with them. But I’m buying used so stuck with what was spec’d.
 
OP has it right...zero is best.

We did a lot of sea kayaking before a car accident wrecked my wife's shoulder, after which we purchased Badger, our first boat.

You attain a connection to the water and surrounding environment impossible in any other watercraft, except maybe a canoe, but canoes aren't as well suited to oceans as kayaks are. (I've never sailed in a boat with no engine, but I imagine that would be a close second if the trip was long enough).

The connection to the environment becomes more profound the longer your trip is, especially if in wilderness areas where human contact is limited to about once a month or so. I found it takes about three weeks for the modern world to fall away, and for a deeper sense of belonging/understanding to develop. Two months is a good length of time for a trip so you can become well attuned.

I've likened travel in our trawler to being on a bus journey through the mountains where you stay in hotels, while a sea kayak journey is more like traveling by bicycle and camping in a tent. Both get you into the mountains to see the sights, but I would argue that the bicyclist has the more fulsome experience.
 
Wifey B: I want three at 2600 hp each. I'd honestly like a little more power but it won't fit. And, once I get that, I may want four but the builder only goes up to three and MTU only goes up to 2600 hp in the 2000 series. :confused:

But in our ribs, I love one. And I like kayaking and paddleboarding with 0. And our other boats have two engines. On a bigger center console I might consider 4 or likely 5 as I like an odd number, but don't think I'd do 6. So, let's see....:)

I like 0
I like 1
I like 2
I like 3
I like 4
I like 5

:rofl:

Anything on the water I like. And while I mostly like power, I do like occasionally sailing and still want an engine for when the wind just takes the day off from it's job. ;)
 
MurrayM said:
I've likened travel in our trawler to being on a bus journey through the mountains where you stay in hotels, while a sea kayak journey is more like traveling by bicycle and camping in a tent. Both get you into the mountains to see the sights, but I would argue that the bicyclist has the more fulsome experience.
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Wifey B: I'll take top down in my Porsche. :D
 
Reserve

I prefer to call it reserve power. You need reserves of everything. Reserve buoyancy, stability, fresh water, fuel, rest..on and on. If you dip into those reserves, you've eaten up the every day supplies, you should know it and act accordingly.
Over 30 years of driving and 75% to 80% give you the sweet spot for speed/fuel burn. There are times I need to use full throttle (emergency, making tide, docking in big wind etc.) Knowing you have the reserve is a confidence builder.
 
I have one Cummins QSB6.7. Three seasons in the PNW and not one issue. My last trip was from Blaine to Portland. I'd never been on the coast with one engine and I must admit that I was a little nervous about it but no problems. I've been told that the newer marine diesel engines are as dependable as the truck engines.

That said, if I ever decide to cross an ocean my boat will have two engines or at least a wing engine. Throw in a full displacement hull and ballast too.
 
trawlercap said:
I prefer to call it reserve power. You need reserves of everything. Reserve buoyancy, stability, fresh water, fuel, rest..on and on. If you dip into those reserves, you've eaten up the every day supplies, you should know it and act accordingly.
Over 30 years of driving and 75% to 80% give you the sweet spot for speed/fuel burn. There are times I need to use full throttle (emergency, making tide, docking in big wind etc.) Knowing you have the reserve is a confidence builder.
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Capt,
If you missed the tide you need better planing.
Docking in wind? Temporarily tie somewhere else.
Or the best solution to “needing” more is a mindset of NOT “needing” to accomplish what you think you need. Drop anchor and wait for water. Or take a small side trip. Just don’t get in a tizzie because things didn’t go perfectly.
 
"Ideal" is a subjective term.

However ideal ideal would be two electric drive motors and a bow thruster and a stern thruster. All solar and wind powered, with the ability to also charge from dock/plug in AND from an onboard generator.

Underway the 2 drive motors would be capable of 12-14 knots, ideally for 6+ hour. At 7-8 knots 14+ hours plus.

Solar power being generated day time and wind power generated when underway and/or starting with at 7 mph wind.
 
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Z would add some additional way to get continuous power for days on end. Also enough endurance and power to continue safely in weather when demand exceeds output. Have you looked at the Arksen vessels. They come quite close to checking all the boxes. There’s also some one off tris which exceed your list.
 
Hippocampus said:
Z would add some additional way to get continuous power for days on end. Also enough endurance and power to continue safely in weather when demand exceeds output. Have you looked at the Arksen vessels. They come quite close to checking all the boxes. There’s also some one off tris which exceed your list.
Click to expand...

What is "tris"?
 
Hippocampus said:
Z would add some additional way to get continuous power for days on end. Also enough endurance and power to continue safely in weather when demand exceeds output. Have you looked at the Arksen vessels. They come quite close to checking all the boxes. There’s also some one off tris which exceed your list.
Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at ARKSEN. They seem in the future sometime. I requested specfic info from them a couple of times and am still waiting to hear back.
 
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