How important is a higher cruising speed?

[Larry M]

Not enough depth at low tide. We used a pilot to get in and out. He met us out beyond the break, told us where and when to go. It was in El Salvador.

 

[Larry M]

As far as the quote goes, on the west coast the predominant wind and swell is on shore. With an ebb tide at the river entrances, you have the outgoing river flow hitting the onshore wind and swell. You can get standing dangerous waves on the ebb. On the flood, the swell, wind and river flow all in the same direction.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Keith
What sort of conditions have you encountered where stuffing the bow was a concern? I'd guess offshore Vancouver Is. is a good bet, even in decent weather if the waves are blowing in from AK.

Sunchaser,
I had such an experience with a light OB boat with large following seas.
Took a long time to climb the backside of the waves and I had to cut the throttle back to idle the moment the bow seriously made it’s drop into the trough. Then a bit of surfing and them full throttle for awhile to the next crest. Good thing I had plenty of fuel.
Northern Dixion Entrance not far south of Mary Island.

 

[markpierce]

Going twice as fast gives a person one-half the time to react, and so on.
"There is danger out there."

 

[SoWhat]

As someone who keeps his boat behind one of the more "energetic" bars on the east coast (Merrimack River) I can attest that having enough speed to ride the backside of a wave when coming in is definitely the safest way (other than waiting for the tide to turn) when the bar gets bad. And it gets bad very regularly

Yes. There is a reason they located a CG base there.

Unfortunately sailboats and most SD trawlers simply don't have the speed and it is easy to misjudge wave height when coming in with bright sun right in your eyes. Trawler gets the stern thrown around, deep keel sailboat is usually on the edge of a broach. It's a narrow channel and takes a lot of quick wheelwork to stay out of trouble.

Biggest problem there seems to be inexperienced outboards who don't stay on the wave and just get swamped.

 

[AusCan]

Without a doubt, speed is a plus when crossing a bar.

However in big lumpy, confused seas in open water I'd prefer to be in a slow FD boat with a low centre of gravity. (riding in the water rather than on the water) Speed is not so much of a plus here.

A good FD hull allows a much more relaxed cruise without the white knuckled process of trying to predict which wave is going where and constantly adjusting the throttle to suit conditions. That works in a short bar crossing, but for any extended period it wears a person down to where they can easily make mistakes.
Another reason why there are so many FD fishing boats.

 

[smitty477]

We had a boat that was realistically limited to about 8 knots for a fast cruise.
Even with no bars to cross that speed was very limiting when traveling around NY in the LI sound and up and down the rivers here.
The ability to go faster was a much enjoyed option that allowed us greater flexibility and got us out and about for many more days and weeks.

 

[kchace]

"I've seen a lot of much slower boats get absolutely beaten up trying to get in - most commonly sail boats."


No one desires to "get beaten up" simply running an inlet , but is a few min of a rotten ride worth the expenses and hassle of a 200% or 300% larger engine?

In my case I made the decision that a 12knot (max) boat was ok for me.

Ken

 

[caltexflanc]

As far as the quote goes, on the west coast the predominant wind and swell is on shore. With an ebb tide at the river entrances, you have the outgoing river flow hitting the onshore wind and swell. You can get standing dangerous waves on the ebb. On the flood, the swell, wind and river flow all in the same direction.

The same applies on the east coast.

Thanks for clarifying what inlet on the high slack, obviously an outlier.

 

[caltexflanc]

Without a doubt, speed is a plus when crossing a bar.

However in big lumpy, confused seas in open water I'd prefer to be in a slow FD boat with a low centre of gravity. (riding in the water rather than on the water) Speed is not so much of a plus here.

A good FD hull allows a much more relaxed cruise without the white knuckled process of trying to predict which wave is going where and constantly adjusting the throttle to suit conditions. That works in a short bar crossing, but for any extended period it wears a person down to where they can easily make mistakes.
Another reason why there are so many FD fishing boats.

Commercial fishing boats are FD primarily for the storage and fuel capacity.
Note also that some form of stabilization is a virtual must on an FD hull.

 

[Nomad Willy]

In my case I made the decision that a 12knot (max) boat was ok for me.

Ken

Ken,
I’d like one that cruised at 11 or 12 knots.
And I could have that at my 1gph but it would be a 14’ boat.

 

[smitty477]

In my case I made the decision that a 12knot (max) boat was ok for me.

Ken

12 knots cruise would solve the tidal and river current issues that we face.
The boats that we have had did got better 'mileage' at 15-17 knots then they did at 12 knots.
So we traveled at either 6-7 knots or in the area of 16 knots but not really anywhere in between.

 

[koliver]

Keith
What sort of conditions have you encountered where stuffing the bow was a concern? I'd guess offshore Vancouver Is. is a good bet, even in decent weather if the waves are blowing in from AK.

I have seen those conditions twice in the rescue boat, once in Stuart channel, in a 35kn SE blow on an ebb and once in Georgia Strait outside Porlier, in a 30kn SE on an ebb. Both times ebb is against the wind. The wave height was 2m in Stuart and slightly less in Georgia Strait. The wind against tide created very steep wave faces.
"Not nice out", as my wife would say in those conditions.

 

[ssobol]

12 knots cruise would solve the tidal and river current issues that we face.
The boats that we have had did got better 'mileage' at 15-17 knots then they did at 12 knots.
So we traveled at either 6-7 knots or in the area of 16 knots but not really anywhere in between.

A lot of boats work this way. However, it seems that operators of said boats don't often get it. I see lots of boats plowing along in the middle speeds throwing big wakes (and burning lots of fuel). The operators really need to know that you need to go slow or fast, but not in the middle.

 

[BandB]

A lot of boats work this way. However, it seems that operators of said boats don't often get it. I see lots of boats plowing along in the middle speeds throwing big wakes (and burning lots of fuel). The operators really need to know that you need to go slow or fast, but not in the middle.

Wifey B: It happens here too. Seems Jupiter Inlet has far more than their share. It's had a lot of deaths over the years. You see so many small boats there and operators without knowledge or experience and then there are the overloaded fishing boats too bringing their excess catch in.

Here's the perfect example of what we've been talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1938073453076542

 

[markpierce]

In the sixties racing my Dad's 29.5-foot sloop, with a six-knot hull speed, entering the Golden Gate with large following waves, we made 12 knots falling off the waves; the large rudder helped maintain control.

 

[KapnKarl]

But then, what is the length of your boat? That’s also a factor as pertains to comfort.

I like to keep my environmental foot print as low as possible. I have enough of a guilt trip as it is traveling at 4 nm/gal at 7.5 kts. I have no need for having a higher cruising speed.

Jim

 

[Exctyengr]

As a former sailor, (not really just too creaky to pull the strings) I like the speed and comfort of a trawler. That said, my favorite cruising grounds is in British Columbia, home of many rapids. We have found that having a little extra speed on tap when you need it may get you to and through slack water in places like Seymour Narrows, Sechelt Rapids and so forth. Places you really don't want to transit other than slack.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Had a 7.5 kt boat for twenty years. Covered just about every waterway east of the Mississippi and west of Africa and Europe. Only once was I in a situation where a faster boat would have been necessary. Once we were forced to wait for three days in the Turks and Caicos when on the north side of the island of Provincial the surf was too rough for our boat to exit. We watched the sport fishermen plow through the surf. Then again I should have avoided the north side and gone where the vast majority of cruisers go on the south side. But then in most places east of the Bahamas we rarely if ever saw the fast boats of less than 50 feet.

 

[Bryant]

Speed

The one complaint I have about my boat is it’s speed, or lack thereof. Not only is speed (and power) convenient in reducing time/distance it can be the difference in whether you go out at all or get back in. Also helps to avoid bad weather altogether. Were I to buy another trawler, I would not consider one that would not routinely cruise at 10 kts, with higher top speeds when necessary. Of course, if all you do is weekend in a relatively small area, it’s much less important. Depends on where you are and how you use the boat.

 

[Juggerknot]

Wifey B: It happens here too. Seems Jupiter Inlet has far more than their share. It's had a lot of deaths over the years. You see so many small boats there and operators without knowledge or experience and then there are the overloaded fishing boats too bringing their excess catch in.

Here's the perfect example of what we've been talking about.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1938073453076542

Local knowledge is a must in Jupiter as well as Boynton...both treacherous inlets that have claimed many unsuspecting or over confident boaters.

 

[kartracer]

I think speed is better to have and not use than not to have it.

 

[Ski in NC]

I designed and built my boat from scratch, and design speed was 20kts. Modified vee bottom copied off a Carolina sportfish. It has accomodations like a trawler, but since it is narrow (11.5') the amount of interior space is a good bit smaller than a typical 38 with 13 or 14' beam. But I built it light, about 14k lbs in cruising dress, and also got talked into a bigger engine (450hp) from the original design of 330hp. I figured 200-250hp at 20kts and the 330 would have been ok there. But my go-fast buds kept nagging me and I buckled and bought the 450. Glad I did. At cruise it runs 1900-2000rpm where the 330 would have to be like 2400. 2400 on a diesel does not sound that nice sound-wise. 1900 is a happy purr.

I ran for years on an old Harker's Island 33' with twin Mercedes OM 352 at 125hp. Would not plane. 7-8kts. There were simply times I felt like gnawing on the steering wheel. Next boat, I promised myself, could get out of it's own way.

New boat worked out well. I've had it running for 12yrs now, and very happy with the design. It is a true dual purpose boat. Can do anything a trawler can do, but if desired it can go. Top speed a few days ago (with a somewhat dirty bottom) was 28kt at 2700. Clean it usually bumps 30kt at 2750. So it is not too dirty.

There is no greater satisfaction to me while put-putting along at 7.5 and see some big a$$ Sea Ray like thing plowing up behind me dragging a stupid big wake. He starts to pass me at that stupid big wake speed, and I say "nope" and hit the fuel and leave him behind. Feels very good. Put a few miles on at power (good for the engine) and then pull it back. Back to peace and quiet.

One nice thing about being light is there is really not much of a "hump" between slow and planing speed. If you want to run 12kts, bow rise is barely noticeable, and wake is big, but not huge. Boat is happy at any speed you chose. Can also see over the bow from the lower station at any speed, which is a rarity, and why few planing boats have lower stations.

 

[O C Diver]

There is no greater satisfaction to me while put-putting along at 7.5 and see some big a$$ Sea Ray like thing plowing up behind me dragging a stupid big wake. He starts to pass me at that stupid big wake speed, and I say "nope" and hit the fuel and leave him behind. Feels very good. Put a few miles on at power (good for the engine) and then pull it back. Back to peace and quiet.

Ok, finally a justifiable reason to have 10 times the HP I need for cruising.

Ted

 

[Ski in NC]

Ok, finally a justifiable reason to have 10 times the HP I need for cruising.

Ted

Oh a little snark there!! Yuk Yuk.

And I can get to Key West from NC in three days and 400gal of fuel!!

To each, their own... I'm happy with my ride, I know you are happy with yours.

 

[Symphony]

After sailing for 30+ years the wife and I are enjoying our pilot boat. 370hp turbo Yanmar is definitely a lot more to care for than a 55hp natural Yanmar under the companionway, but because we have an engine room it's much easier to get to every side of it. 250 gal of fuel instead of 40 gals. lots of oil but we have a Reverso pump set up. All in all the maintenance is easier.

modern Mainship hull means we trawl at 8kts getting 3+mpg, or plane at 15kts getting <1mpg. pretty noisy at 15kts but very smooth. we mix the speeds depending on conditions and time, but always run fast for at least 20-30 minutes to finish every trip.

when first we switched to power we were thrilled with trawling at 7-8kts in the exact direction we wanted to go! no tacking. ha. and 8kts was an aggressive speed for our 41' Tartan involving lots of good driving, trimming, tacking/ gybing. 8 kts was working it!

my wife particularly likes the power because we can adjust speed to account for sea state - it is possible on a 40' sailboat but difficult to maintain exact synch with changing conditions. In Long Island Sound it is possible to ride a set of swells for many miles if you can keep your speed synchronized.

Main thing is that this boat is perfectly suited for our current Boating Mission of exploring rivers, coves, under bridges, NYC creeks and sights, working and pleasure harbors and Long Island Sound. Having 15-16kts available has meant we made many more short trips, starting late in the day but still arriving in a nice anchorage before dinnertime.

 

[LarryM]

There is no greater satisfaction to me while put-putting along at 7.5 and see some big a$$ Sea Ray like thing plowing up behind me dragging a stupid big wake. He starts to pass me at that stupid big wake speed, and I say "nope" and hit the fuel and leave him behind. Feels very good. Put a few miles on at power (good for the engine) and then pull it back. Back to peace and quiet.

I couldn't have said it better. After a lifetime of sail and a few years in a Fales/Willard trawler, it is now really great to be able to say "nope" when you want or need to.

 

[rsn48]

One advantage to a bit more power than you need is that the motor isn't running all out when you hit your top speed. So lets say I need 300 hp to hit 14 knots and then I can't go faster, if instead I have a 350 hp motor running at 300 hp to 14 knots, in theory the motor should last longer. And at cruising speed, the revs on the larger motor are less than the revs on the smaller motor.

I'm going through this exercise currently with repowering, the Merc duoprop gas comes in 300 and 350 hp with the same footprint, same motor, so at 350 hp the motor should be less strained.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Honestly, I’m kind of glad that I have to periodically run my Detroit’s at high power after a few days at 10 kts and thus just above idle. There is nothing like the sound of 24 two stroke cylinders as the smoke clears and 85k lbs gets up on plane. Open it up and let her eat! We don’t do it for long, but it sure is fun.
Regarding the real advantages of speed we will be running from Key West to Naples in a couple of days, about 100nm, and we plan on making most of the trip at 10kts with the option of 18kts for an hour or two after lunch to ensure we arrive in late afternoon instead of early evening. If it gets snotty we can just get up on plane smoothing the ride and getting there quicker. And we don’t have to get up before dawn to do so.

 

[Seevee]

One could easily argue this either way.

The "option" to have speed is nice, but comes with a price. The price is dollars and footprint and often noise.

For the most part, I could argue that a speed option is not as much as a crucial safety items instead of just personal preference. We have a number of members here with slow boats that have safely navigated all over the US and in many parts of the world. Perhaps hull design or size is a more important feature.

As for weather, you generally cannot outrun weather, even with a fast 20kt boat. Sure, you can better position yourself at times. Weather is often fast moving, widespread or both. I could argue to deal with the weather that trying to out run it.... or just stay in port.

I've had both fast and slow, and general I prefer to have the speed option. However, over the past years doing the Great Loop with my slow trawler, the speed advantage was not significant enough to worry about. I also have a fast 28ft runabout that I could use and consider selling it as I just don't have the need.

To each his own.