Honking ferries in NYC

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Wolf

I really hope that you aren't right... I was also mentioned in that article as one of the complainers... ;-)

Breaking News: Cities are Noisy | Working Harbor Committee

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ark-city/?_r=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPP5yVB0JlQ

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by gwkiwi

I just hope the waterways dont become as noisy as the roadways.

In Battery Park City, NYC the waterways are now even louder than any street around here...

[tinped]

I used to work at the staten island ferry as an marine electrician,and yes,they are required to blow one long one,and three short blasts when leaving the slips,both in manhatten,and staten island.Since the fender walls of the slips covers about 95% of the entire ferry,the cg considers them to be backing out,regardless of which end is in control.As to the ferries not blowing the horn,in fifteen years I worked there,i never saw a captain fail to do so,hence that poster is incorrect.If they did fail to do so,they would be fired immediately,as the port captain takes every cg rule seriousely.

[tinped]

I cannot comment as to whether the private ferries have been following the rules,or have just begun so as suggested by the video.

[BruceK]

If it`s noise vs collisions and drownings, noise wins. But then, I can`t hear the noise from here so fortunately it`s NIMBY.
Are the complaints mainly from people onshore?
If so, is that like buying a house next to an established busy airport and complaining about noisy airplanes coming and going?

[AusCan]

Sometimes the rules need to be enforced, but it's nice that common sense is sometimes applied. There is a world of difference between the chaos of NYC harbour and a sleepy fishing village, so a blanket rule with no exceptions doesn't really make sense. Personal dsicretion is a good thing. A ferry captain should have the common sense to make the call. If not, he shouldn't be a ferry captain.
If everyone is using their horn in a busy harbour to signal every manouver, the effect is diminished.

I have yet to hear any local boat sound its horn. Its just the sound of seagulls and waves lapping around here. (and my rattly old volvo)

[CaptTom]

Rule 34 (Inland) doesn't really leave any discretion: "When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other" they SHALL sound the appropriate signals.

In that sleepy fishing village, there probably isn't another vessel in a meeting or crossing situation that's in sight. So no horn is required.

In NY Harbor it's probably safe (from a legal standpoint) to assume that there's another vessel somewhere that could potentially be in a meeting or crossing situation, even if it's a kayak you can't see from the wheelhouse.

The rules actually make a lot of sense if you take the time to read and understand them.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Rule 34 (Inland) doesn't really leave any discretion: "When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other" they SHALL sound the appropriate signals.

In that sleepy fishing village, there probably isn't another vessel in a meeting or crossing situation that's in sight. So no horn is required.

In NY Harbor it's probably safe (from a legal standpoint) to assume that there's another vessel somewhere that could potentially be in a meeting or crossing situation, even if it's a kayak you can't see from the wheelhouse.

The rules actually make a lot of sense if you take the time to read and understand them.

While I agree rules are an issue when they are "interpreted"...ya gotta admit that this rule

Rule 34 (Inland) doesn't really leave any discretion: "When power-driven vessels are in sight of one another and meeting or crossing at a distance within half a mile of each other"

has go to be the most or nearly so forgotten rule of all. I rarley hear sound signals at all along the ICW except for radio passing by cruisers. Even the USCG and LE guys don't do it.

And I can see why...the local homeowners would start a shooting war with all the blasts. Kinda like the complaint about NYC.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by tinped

...in fifteen years I worked there,i never saw a captain fail to do so,hence that poster is incorrect.If they did fail to do so,they would be fired immediately,as the port captain takes every cg rule seriousely.

That's right for the Staten Island Ferry, but not for all other (relatively small) private ferries in NYC. They haven't used their horns since we live here - and many people complaining say that they never used their horns before, only on foggy weather sometimes.

Besides the Staten Island Ferry hasn't such a busy schedule, like the ferries where we live. Between 6am and 7am we have approx. 25 ferries multiplied with (at least) 4 horn blasts...

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by AusCan

...
If everyone is using their horn in a busy harbour to signal every manouver, the effect is diminished. ...

That's absolutely correct!!!

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by psneeld

... I rarley hear sound signals at all along the ICW except for radio passing by cruisers. Even the USCG and LE guys don't do it.

At the moment I'm thinking about traveling to other busy cities, just to show that this now enforced regulation is not in effect in most of the harbors and cities where people live really close to such a busy ferry station with small private ferries.

When you watch my video you can even guess that there is no need at this ferry station to use the horns... because the security situation doesn't change in any way!

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Wolf

At the moment I'm thinking about traveling to other busy cities, just to show that this now enforced regulation is not in effect in most of the harbors and cities where people live really close to such a busy ferry station with small private ferries.

When you watch my video you can even guess that there is no need at this ferry station to use the horns... because the security situation doesn't change in any way!

Of all the things (noise just being one of them) that could improve NYC...you are going to concentrate on honking ferries??????

Wow...you must have superman hearing....

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Of all the things (noise just being one of them) that could improve NYC...you are going to concentrate on honking ferries??????

Wow...you must have superman hearing....

Actually it's pretty quiet in our area, since the ferries started honking...

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by RickB

Naval Shiphandler's Guide pp 154 - 155

"It is always prudent to have sound signals as a backup if radio communication fails."

"Three very short blasts tells the tug to increase to full speed in the direction it is already going."

NAVAL SHIPHANDLER'S GUIDE | U.S. Naval Institute

It's difficult to make headway going astern.

Could you be so nice to explain to me what "radio communication" exactly means? With whom should the captain communicate?

[tinped]

along with the signals,the ferries are required to make a secuirite call,as well as all other commercials vessels in new York harbor,when they get underway.It states the name of the vessel,its current location,and its intended destination.this is how it goes"securite,securite,this is the ferryboat Andrew barberi,departing St. George ferry terminal in route to Whitehall ferry terminal" As to the quote about tugboats,i cannot comment,but the commercial shipping must obey Coast Guard rules,not naval,so that might be the answer.

[RickB]

Originally Posted by Wolf

Could you be so nice to explain to me what "radio communication" exactly means? With whom should the captain communicate?

When tugs are working together in a shiphandling operation they normally communicate movements by radio. The pilot tells the tugs which way to push or pull and how much, the tugs coordinate their movements by radio. The reference simply states the fact that it is prudent to have whistle signals as a backup to radio communication.

That same reasoning applies to any and all maneuvering situations, sound signals must be known and used to communicate vessel movements and intentions. Practically, if radio communication is not or cannot be accomplished then sound signals are the only alternative and are required. It ain't rocket science.

It is not complicated and it is not a rule or procedure restricted to naval vessels ... the citation just happened to be best illustrated in the document provided.

The citation was provided for the benefit of a weekend boater who felt qualified to criticize the actions of professional mariners performing a very critical barge handling operation.

[tinped]

sorry,i did nt realize that the conversation had morphed to tugs.I thought we were still talking about the ferry system.

[RickB]

Originally Posted by tinped

sorry,i did nt realize that the conversation had morphed to tugs.I thought we were still talking about the ferry system.

It didn't morph anywhere, we were talking about sound signals.

[Codger2]

Originally Posted by RickB

It didn't morph anywhere, we were talking about sound signals.

The OP's origiinal thread title was "Honking Ferries in NYC."

[RickB]

Ferries "honk" in NYC because the rules say that marine vessels will use sound signals. That is probably why sound signals instantly became the core of the discussion. Ferries really have nothing to do with it, they just happen to be the type of marine vessels close enough to the OP to annoy him because they follow the rules.