High pilothouse, good or bad?

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Hornloaded

Hornloaded

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
54
Location
Usa
Vessel Name
New Adventure
Vessel Make
McKinna 48PH
We just sold our 50' sail boat. We are shopping for our retirement boat. We plan on taking this boat from So.Cal to P.N.W. to Caribbean to Mexico over a period of 10 years. We have decided that we need to buy a boat big enough to live on for at least 10 years. That said we are shopping for 50 -60 foot trawlers.
I have found a boat that checks all the boxes, but the pilothouse in on top where the fly bridge would normally be. This is the only steering station on the boat. Its fully enclosed in glass and fiber glass and very comfortable with a 360 view of the boat. The boat does have full electronic engine controls with a station in the cockpit and a full wireless control with both engines and bow and stern thruste's from anywhere on deck.

Having never driven a boat like this out in the ocean, I just worry this position is two high up on a rough day.The boat is stabilized.


Doug
 
Can you post a link to the boat or make and model?

Ted
 
The visibility from up high is beneficial, particularly if you get to areas where there is coral. Being properly enclosed as opposed to plastic clears is a plus.

The biggest downside is motion, but as the vessel is stabilised then that should not be an issue at all.
 
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Yes it has Nadia active fins.
We love the fact that the living area is gigantic and the view from the kitchen is perfect!
 
Hi Doug,
Welcome (maybe a bit prematurely) to the "Dark Side".
When we were boat shopping, we wanted a pilothouse style of boat, without a flybridge. Our reasoning was that other than on very nice, warm, sunny, calm days, we would not use the flybridge (for boat operation at least), and certainly the higher you go above the waterline, the more "rough" the potential ride. For the boat in question, it sounds like you would have other options for location of operation when docking, anchoring, etc. but maybe not so much in rough conditions. If this possibility is of concern, maybe some extensive testing (sea trialling) in rough conditions would be a good idea. If that is not possible, and you are really concerned about this issue, maybe waiting for another boat where this will not be an issue is in order?
Anyway, all boats involve some kind of "trade offs".

Good luck
Tom
 
I had seen this boat listed before. It looks very nice. Art Defever designed excellent boats. I suspect that he took the height of the bridge into account when he designed the boat. Besides it has stabilizers. I think that it could handle much worst conditions than you would. While I have not actually seen the boat in person, it looks great and I think since it is a Defever it will probably be fine.
 
Just remember the stabilizers have no effect at all on waves coming from the front, only on the beam.
 
Russell Clifton said:
Just remember the stabilizers have no effect at all on waves coming from the front, only on the beam.
Click to expand...

Well, yes directly from the front you will get fore-aft pitching. But quartering the seas you will still get a pretty good ride from the stabilisers.
 
Do you know if the hard pilothouse was original to the design, because it looks like an add-on. The extra weight up high will have stability and roll-period implications. You might want to check all this out before purchasing, because you may wind up paying big fees for a naval architect to get involved, then perhaps placing lead ballast in interesting places, etc.
 
That's just...strange....Almost like the inside helm is now the galley.

Have to see the "Yacht controller" but if it's also an autopilot remote you could run the boat from the lower level. You would lose the engine gauges and chart plotters but off shore you could. I wouldn't...
 
One question. Ladder or stairs to the upper bridge?

Beautiful looking boat.
 
Russell Clifton said:
Just remember the stabilizers have no effect at all on waves coming from the front, only on the beam.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That's my biggest complaint with my only helm being (by my best guess) about 2 feet lower than the one in this picture (but on a smaller boat, so pitching feel is likely no worse on the Defever). Getting into steep, short period head seas can be a bit pucker inducing in terms of feel at the helm. However, on trips where fuel range isn't an issue, and the seas aren't too steep / large to allow it, comfort can be improved by throttling up a bit (judging by the engine power listed that boat can definitely exceed hull speed). Going faster will make the motion sharper / harsher, but smaller in magnitude, as the boat will tend to smash through the waves a bit more vs going all the way up and over the top.

Although as Insequent said, changing tack a little bit can make a big difference.
 
We went from a cutter rig sailboat to Hobo. It took sometime to get use to steering 2/3 of the way forward in heavy seas. Not the most comfortable after 10 years from steering from the back.

The motion in an enclosed space that high up could be tough. For me, I’d be too isolated from the rest of the boat. The helm is far from the head, galley, engine, other sleeping areas, saloon, etc. Just my opinion.
 
I have friends with fly bridge enclosures similar to the one on the Defever. But on smaller boats 35' to 45' in length.

They encounter no issues due to the enclosure. Some claim the enclosure acts like a sail and with the wind on the beam, reduces rolling.

The Defever with more mass and stabalizer should be fine.
 
Larry M said:
We went from a cutter rig sailboat to Hobo. It took sometime to get use to steering 2/3 of the way forward in heavy seas. Not the most comfortable after 10 years from steering from the back.

The motion in an enclosed space that high up could be tough. For me, I’d be too isolated from the rest of the boat. The helm is far from the head, galley, engine, other sleeping areas, saloon, etc. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

All good points for consideration.
:thumb:
 
Solly said:
That's just...strange....Almost like the inside helm is now the galley.
Click to expand...

Really gorgeous interior. The wood and the gelcoat white fiberglass balances well, except perhaps the heads/baths could be warmed up a bit.

Looks like a steep staircase to the bridge, and the galley up front of the deckhouse is cool as hell. My wife would love that!

However, this is absolutely a very near-coastal boat. All that glass and the big patio doors. I'm thinking Southern States to Bahamas. A lot of the Caribbean would be off-limits or needing to be extremely careful.
 
Upon second look at the photos, it's in amazingly good condition for a 30 year old boat. Even the engine room is clean.

This is likely the first time we've ever experienced thread drift :whistling:, but now that I think about it, my wife would prefer the galley all the way at the rear of the deckhouse, then forward of that the dinette, then place the saloon all the way up front.

Motion at sea is easier handled sitting in a leather sofa, and my wife is sensitive to sea-sickness.

Would such an arrangement be considered heresy and kill off any resale???
 
The motion in an enclosed space that high up could be tough. For me, I’d be too isolated from the rest of the boat. The helm is far from the head, galley, engine, other sleeping areas, saloon, etc. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I disagree, the boat has an interior staircase directly to the galley, thence the salon.
All we have here is a boat where they enclosed the flying bridge and converted the pilot house space to galley area. One thing I like is that you can open up the bridge and get some of the same outdoorsy interaction that you do with many flying bridges.
Note also the boat has three Glendinning control stations and apparently a wireless remote as well. So that mitigates many of the ergonomic shortcomings of having only an upper helm.

Ironically, in a separate thread on this forum, the majority of responders said they only use the upper helm. Personally I think there is a lot to like in this boat, based solely on the broker's pictures.
 
The DF Owners Group keep a spreadsheet of all DF's. I just looked at it and there are 7 55's, one of which is this one.

There is also a 55, Our Realm, for sale in BC.

Not sure if they are all FB helm only or both as every design may be different.
 
menzies said:
The DF Owners Group keep a spreadsheet of all DF's. I just looked at it and there are 7 55's, one of which is this one.

There is also a 55, Our Realm, for sale in BC.

Not sure if they are all FB helm only or both as every design may be different.
Click to expand...

Can you point me to this information?

I also thought it would be no big deal to set an autopilot station in the kitchen. I would get the engines on the network and stream to a tablet.

I do this now. I’ve driven hundred of mile sitting in my companion way using a tablet.

I would defiantly make the pilothouse more friendly, and I definitely would need a bench to convert to a bed so we can always maintain two on watch for a long trip, or early morning departure.
 
If those pictures are current, that’s a sweet looking boat that looks well cared for.

I like having a lower and upper steering station, but it wouldn’t bother me having one only, if the boat checked a lot of other boxes.

The aft cockpit controls and YC remote are a big plus. With two engines you will be spinning that big girl around in tight spaces with some practice and your sailing background will accelerate the learning curve.

Re AP, I use the Furono App to Pilot the boat from my iPad or phone. But that is with newer Gen gear.
 
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Fletcher500 said:
If those pictures are current, that’s a sweet looking boat that looks well cared for.
Click to expand...

Yes, the teak looking decks are a snap in mat. It has fiberglass deck, which is a must.
My broker says this broker is a honest guy. I talked to him directly for a long time. He says the owner is an old guy the maintains it with an open checkbook. The home port is New Port Beach, so it fits.

I do wander about the tanks.
I’m driving down next week to see her in person.
We’ll see.
 
I thought that marina in the photos was San Diego (National City). Good luck with the process, sounds like you are asking the right questions. There are a lot of sharp people on here that can help if you have more after the survey.
 
How good are your knees? If there's a wind blowing you off the dock, you're going to have to get down from the flybridge pretty darn quick, especially if you're solo.
 
Nice boat - she would have a fine ride. Lots of steps but that's common for these older style motor yachts.

Other than possible puffery of the listing, only thing I would point out is 1000 gal fuel tanks. I'd guess she will get around 1 nmpg at 8 kts. Gives you a range of around 800 nms with reserve. You can extend a bit at 7 kts, but still, some of your trip south and then north will be planned around fuel stops. Not a huge deal, but something to consider.
 
Re post #27

The boat has a remote YC. He can stand anywhere he wants and calmly step onto the dock, even solo. I do it all the time.
 
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