High pilothouse, good or bad?

[firehoser75]

Doug,
I agree with Larry M regarding the flybridge only piloting (as the only current station with full system) being too far from the head, engine, and even the galley, all areas that will be accessed regularly during cruising or passagemaking. You and your wife will be doing a lot of stairs! Maybe it is just me, but I can't see you standing in the galley for long periods "piloting" the boat from there with the remote. The remote and/or stern station may be very useful during docking however.

Otherwise the boat looks great and look like it has been "loved". However, unless I am seeing things, it looks like both engines were recently rebuilt. If I was considering this boat, I would really want to know all about that. Why? What happened? It seems unusual that both engines would require rebuilds at the same time? Has the root cause of the problem been eliminated?
Defevers are usually good boats, and this one looks nice. I would want to know the complete history on this boat if it was me. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[caltexflanc]

The idea of putting an auto pilot remote in the galley and using it for longer ocean runs is a nice one. Coupled with one of the Glendinning remotes and the aforementioned tablet chart plotter, you'd be all set.

 

[FF]

,Offshore the high PH should be no problem , its a big ocean and the watch stander can be in a lower location.


Murphy Switch gauges do a better jo of engine monitoring than most folks.

 

[kchace]

Yes, the teak looking decks are a snap in mat. It has fiberglass deck, which is a must.
My broker says this broker is a honest guy. I talked to him directly for a long time. He says the owner is an old guy the maintains it with an open checkbook. The home port is New Port Beach, so it fits.

I do wander about the tanks.
I’m driving down next week to see her in person.
We’ll see.

We have 2 fully equipped steering stations and use the flybridge station about 99% of the time.


As far as tanks go I seem to remember that Defevers have fiberglass tanks. If so, that's about the best possible.


Ken

 

[Mako]

We are shopping for our retirement boat. We plan on taking this boat from So.Cal to P.N.W. to Caribbean to Mexico over a period of 10 years.

Doug I would suggest to plan to visit/sea trial the boat during heavy weather. When I was moored in Newport Harbor for a couple of years I recall big 12 ft rollers being the norm, so you should be able to time your visit correctly.

It would be good to see how it handles idling along at 8 kts while running or quartering those big seas.

Also think about how comfortable you are running 850 hp down at less than 20% power, 24 hrs per day, while on a long cruise.

Coast to coast is not to be taken lightly, and those big beautiful windows and sliding glass door are a concern.

But in the end it is a question of whether the boat meets your SOR.

 

[sunchaser]

Do you know if the hard pilothouse was original to the design, because it looks like an add-on. The extra weight up high will have stability and roll-period implications. You might want to check all this out before purchasing, because you may wind up paying big fees for a naval architect to get involved, then perhaps placing lead ballast in interesting places, etc.

Mako makes some valid points. For a SoCal fair weather cruising vessel it looks very good. For the OP's intended cruising itinerary there are better and proven DeFever and GA designs for the dark of night offshore work.

Things such as quick access to the ER whether for hourly ER checks or dealing with the not too unusual mechanical oddities that crop up are every bit as important as the stability and higher movement concerns. Access to the FB requires some thought especially once the seas get heaving and it is raining hard.

My suggestion, if the planned cruising itinerary is real compare this very nice - by photos - vessel to others. Yes the extremely high upper station bears stability and movement thought, but for me the access to it is the real negative.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

That is a Beautiful Boat. Well thought out and certainly well cared for and loved. Very modest price. (IMHO)

Not exactly the boat for me for a couple reasons, but then again, it's not me buying it.

My advice, as usual:..

Go for it!!

pete

 

[Woodland Hills]

This boat is not a trawler, something you state in post 1 is a need. I would check to see if it is a planing hull or semi-displacement. The 800 mile range is a bit short for your plans to cruise down the coast and through the Canal to the Caribbean. Then again, it might be cheaper in the long run to have her shipped from Vancouver to the other side given fuel costs and wear and tear on the vessel. I would not be concerned about the single station, it’s nice to have a separate dark place to run the boat at night while having the ability to keep lights on in the salon for the crew. If you are making long overnight passages you will need more crew than you and your spouse. The height above the water is a non issue. The fly bridge was designed to carry six or more adults (1000+ lbs) and a 1000 lb tender I doubt the addition of a hardtop will make things unsafe. A basic cctv system will suffice for on watch engine checks.

 

[sunchaser]

As far as tanks go I seem to remember that Defevers have fiberglass tanks. If so, that's about the best possible.
Ken

FRP tanks in a DF would be very unusual.

 

[sunchaser]

A basic cctv system will suffice for on watch engine checks.

Eyes on is nice when doing long passages. This of course assumes good ER access. Cameras are great in many respects, but all too often that single liquid drip or nut found in the bilge, a precursor of things to come, goes unnoticed in the early stages.

 

[Woodland Hills]

For the serious cruisers I know, nothing beats eyes on when doing long passages. Cameras are great in many respects, but all to often that single liquid drip or nut found in the bilge, a precursor of things to come, goes unnoticed.

That’s why you make a physical check at the beginning and end of each watch. One could argue that it is safer not to leave the helm given the amount of floating debris and poorly lit vessels at sea, especially in Central America and Caribbean waters. It was reported today that of 353 fishing boats in a certain area, only 253 had their mandatory AIS turned on. It was farther south, but the same principle applies.

 

[Codger2]

Mako makes some valid points. For a SoCal fair weather cruising vessel it looks very good. For the OP's intended cruising itinerary there are better and proven DeFever and GA designs for the dark of night offshore work.

Having poured over the photos for quite awhile, I assume that the old guy who owns this boat took very good care of it. (Judging by the photos and assuming they are current.) The equipment list is impressive for a boat priced this low. The helm station on the bridge doesn't bother me as I have a setup at present just like that. With a modern MFD, an iPad, another shift & power station mounted below and a few cameras, one could pilot this boat from below. (I do!)

Again, assuming the photos & equipment lists are accurate & having a good engine survey done & of course inspecting it in person, if it if it was me, I'd pull the trigger!

 

[LaBomba]

That's a lot of boat for the money and apparent condition. I like it up high and have only one helm. It wouldn't bother me at all, but I am also not on the ocean. Good luck!

 

[OldDan1943]

It would take me lots of time to get use to the looking out the fwd glass without a helm. SMILE

 

[moparharn]

If I saw that boat for sale on Craigslist i would assume it is a scam. Way too much boat for that money. I could not be more impressed with the value it shows "in pictures". With stabilization I cannot imagine that it would be a deal breaker, particularly with the salon access stairwell as it relates to the single station. That engine room is spectacular at that price. I am not a fan of the exterior styling, but that boat is so fine in every other regard I would be hard pressed to pass up having it surveyed if I were in that price range. Nice find!

 

[sunchaser]

In looking at the pictures I see I missed that interior stairwell. That certainly moves it up on my "give it a good look" list.

 

[Hornloaded]

All good points being made hear. Thank you all. This will be our first non lake power boat, so I am proceeding with caution. I know on the older Defever's the tanks were Black Iron and usually a problem by now. My broker thinks 89-90 was when they started changing the tank material. I will be carrying a magnet and a scope camera to really poke around when I get on board next Wednesday.
I struggle with the big engines, but have read enough post of owners using them at trawler speed for years with no problems. Most say to run them up to plane every once in a while on a long trip to blow them out. Seem like good advice to me. I just wish I could find a HP/Fuel burn graph for them that went lower than 1500 RPM. I will be talking to a reputable Caterpillar dealer about that.
I agree, this is not an offshore blue water cruiser, but when retired, we will have all the time in the world to pick out weather windows and keep the hops a reasonable distance. once in a cruising ground, its all short trips. If the Caribbean doesn't happen, its not the end of the world. We really like PNW and Mexico. Shipping it is a good idea.

 

[Comodave]

I think that the boat is certainly capable to do the trips you are contemplating. Yes, you are not going to cross oceans with it but for coastal cruising it should be fine. As to the range, 800 miles is adequate to do almost any coastal cruising in North America. You might have to sit out some weather but that is the case with most boats. It does have an unusual layout but if it works for you then that is all that matters. Doesn’t matter if it works for other people, just for you. Good luck.

 

[Hornloaded]

Actually, it more about ; does it work for my wife! I was fine going cruising on my beautiful 50' sail boat, she is not. She loves boating, and has handled the boat many times in very difficult situations, but living on board is a whole new level. She needs air conditioning and heat, bigger bed, and room for the kids and grand kids.
And it wont bother me to no longer have to drive the boat from outside. I am also a very handy engineer that loves to work on my boats, so this should keep me busy.
We are also looking at Art Defevers last personal boat this week. Its a 60' Pilothouse with a single engine. Several cool modification. True full displacement boat, but sitting for a long time. And one leaking fuel tank for sure.

 

[RedRascal]

How are you guys with getting sea sick? If you guys are gifted with not really getting sea sick then having more movement higher up on a boat may not be a big deal for you. However if you guys are prone to sea sickness then riding up higher may be an issue. Just think about how you would feel riding up on the boom of your sailboat at the mast in lumpy seas. True we are talking about different hulls but they will both roll and pitch. As for the stabilizers they help if they are sized correctly for the boat. You may want to get an opinion if the stabilizers are actually big enough for the boat.

 

[Wxx3]

We went from a cutter rig sailboat to Hobo. It took sometime to get use to steering 2/3 of the way forward in heavy seas. Not the most comfortable after 10 years from steering from the back.

The motion in an enclosed space that high up could be tough. For me, I’d be too isolated from the rest of the boat. The helm is far from the head, galley, engine, other sleeping areas, saloon, etc. Just my opinion.

Exactly. Well said yet again.

While you may no plan it, there will be times you need to dock alone.
Also the ride up there will not be pleasant on all but the best days, which is not a good plan for your intentions.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hmmm, I question the placement for the same reason many people do not like a galley down, isolated from people and the activities.

 

[Mako]

I understand the "not being isolated, being close to galley and head" argument. Perhaps that's more valid for smaller boats, say 50ft and under. But once you start moving into larger vessels I like the separate pilothouse, all the way up high.

One of my previous vessel was a raised PH - about 2/3 higher. Yes it's a big isolated but I grew to enjoy that feeling, especially at sea at night. Peaceful. In command. Great visibility all around also, 360 degrees.

 

[Woodland Hills]

The boat in question has a remote control for throttles and shifters also autopilot for rudder. No need to be up there when docking. My fly bridge is 20 feet above the water and we’ve never had an issue with motion sickness. Of course we never had the oversized stabilizers fail either. We have lexan windows in front with no wipers, so when it kicks up we go down to the pilot house to use the wipers. That won’t be an issue on this one.

 

[mahal]

It's a very nice boat for the price. I wouldn't worry too much about the helm station being too far from the head and galley. On long runs, a portable fridge and toilet should solve that.

 

[Fish53]

My opinion would be the lower the better, flybridges never made sense to me, but neither does sitting out in a sailboat cockpit. I may have spent more time offshore than the average boater and have had my share of being thrown across the pilothouse, no thanks.

 

[BruceK]

This discussion should draw in the ever helpful dhays, but it hasn`t. Anyone know about his absence? I sent him a PM but no reply.

 

[OldDan1943]

I see the sport fisherman boats with the TALL tuna towers and think, I'd last about 2 mins.
Of course, getting up and down from the tuna tower will be a real challenge in any sort of seas.

 

[Okydowky]

Very beautiful boat, very clean and love the interior and forward galley my wife would love it. ER is clean and immaculate. Buuut and don’t take me wrong, but the body lines didn’t continue to the fly bridge. It looks like a gremlin car glassed over what should have been a pilot house.
Don’t take this negatively, but they should have kept the lines squarer up top to match the none aero dynamics of the rest of the vessel. Kinda like a stealth
Sorry

 

[DryGuy]

Tall good for PNW

You will not regret a tall wheelhouse in the PNW -- easier to spot flotsam and gets you into tight anchorages