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04-26-2021, 06:24 PM
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#21
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Insurers often require a level of experience on new boat owners and may require licensed captains on board initially if the owner lacks that experience. They do this on larger boat on the Great Lakes as well.
As to "coastal", in USCG licensing, the majority of captains are initially licensed as "Near Coastal" so you'll typically see licenses like 100 Ton NC or 200 Ton NC. OUPV is also near coastal. Most are not licensed initially as OC which requires more sea time.
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04-26-2021, 07:06 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Vessel Name: MoonShadow
Vessel Model: Wendon Skylounge 72'
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 721
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I've done a few (3) deliveries now for 3 friends; Baltimore-BVI, San Diego - San Francisco, Charleston - Annapolis. I have criteria that I suggest the OP and any volunteers insist upon;
1. Agreed sail plan
2. Each crew gets a veto vote on go, no go decision with regard to weather and vessel condition
3. In-certification Liferaft on board (rental is fine)
4. EPIRB & Sat phone on board (Rental sat phone OK)
On 1 delivery I was less experienced than the captain. On one I was more experienced. The last we were equal in experience. Either way I had veto power on the go or no go decision. That is a total deal-breaker for me.
~A
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04-26-2021, 07:15 PM
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#23
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Scraping Paint
City: Anacortes, WA
Vessel Name: Dancing Angels
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 400DB
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanT
I've done a few (3) deliveries now for 3 friends; Baltimore-BVI, San Diego - San Francisco, Charleston - Annapolis. I have criteria that I suggest the OP and any volunteers insist upon;
1. Agreed sail plan
2. Each crew gets a veto vote on go, no go decision with regard to weather and vessel condition
3. In-certification Liferaft on board (rental is fine)
4. EPIRB & Sat phone on board (Rental sat phone OK)
On 1 delivery I was less experienced than the captain. On one I was more experienced. The last we were equal in experience. Either way I had veto power on the go or no go decision. That is a total deal-breaker for me.
~A
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This is great advice. On all of my boat relocations/deliveries we had similar expectations and “rules”. The biggest was the veto power of anyone on board.
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04-26-2021, 07:29 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Model: OA 440
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 904
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Our 44 is/was our first boat...ever. I've been asked where the boat would be operated, but never because of owner experience...they worry about hurricanes. BTW, the OP didn't specifically mention insurance policy restrictions. Are these delivery captains bonded? Who pays if the boat runs aground?
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04-26-2021, 07:41 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
Our 44 is/was our first boat...ever. I've been asked where the boat would be operated, but never because of owner experience...they worry about hurricanes. BTW, the OP didn't specifically mention insurance policy restrictions.
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He didn’t need to. New boat to owner that needs to go coastal is almost a guarantee of the insurance requirement for a captain.
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04-26-2021, 08:34 PM
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#26
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Guru
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
Our 44 is/was our first boat...ever. I've been asked where the boat would be operated, but never because of owner experience...they worry about hurricanes. BTW, the OP didn't specifically mention insurance policy restrictions. Are these delivery captains bonded? Who pays if the boat runs aground?
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No, OP didn't specifically mention insurance policy restrictions. It's informed speculation. Many of us here are aware that insurance companies will often restrict the geographic coverage based on experience of owner/operator.
To answer you questions. No, delivery captains are not normally bonded. The owner's insurer or the owner pay all costs including damages to the boat or any property or person. The delivery captain is simply working for wages. The forum members got into that topic in the thread He crashed my boat
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
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04-26-2021, 10:30 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Model: OA 440
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 904
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I'm not clear if the OP intends to make the trip himself and just wants someone with experience in the area to assist, or if he wants a delivery person to do it all. But unless my insurance company specifically required a delivery Captain, I'd look for a local boat owner/volunteer as an advisor to help me move the boat. After reading the "He crashed my boat" thread it's pretty clear that a piece of paper provides zero benefit over an experienced local. And if my current insurance company had me under some sort of operating area restriction, I'd try to find one that didn't. A basic liability policy might be in order until the boat was repositioned to Washington.
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04-26-2021, 11:21 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
I'm not clear if the OP intends to make the trip himself and just wants someone with experience in the area to assist, or if he wants a delivery person to do it all. But unless my insurance company specifically required a delivery Captain, I'd look for a local boat owner/volunteer as an advisor to help me move the boat. After reading the "He crashed my boat" thread it's pretty clear that a piece of paper provides zero benefit over an experienced local. And if my current insurance company had me under some sort of operating area restriction, I'd try to find one that didn't. A basic liability policy might be in order until the boat was repositioned to Washington.
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You are completely out of touch with the realities of the west coast. First, you can buy insurance for just about anything. You will find that it’s cheaper to hire a skipper than to pay the premiums to transport a new to you boat across one of the most notorious bars in the world and then run 14 hours through open ocean with only one possible bailout port. Now if the OP had owned the boat for a year, the captain requirement would probably not be required. This assumes the OP had some bar and open water experience.
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04-27-2021, 02:16 AM
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#29
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Guru
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,610
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How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.
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04-27-2021, 03:20 AM
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#30
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.
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Near coastal is anything within 200 nm of land.
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04-27-2021, 05:33 AM
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#31
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.
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I've never seen a definition, so BandB's 200 nms might be it. At least along the pacific coast, the Wx forecasts on VHF go out to 60 nms, so I'd probably pick that as a number, at least along the west coast. Transiting between headlands rarely puts you further than about 30 nms out so either way, you're out there
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
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04-27-2021, 07:44 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: Coupeville Wa.
Vessel Name: Pacific Myst
Vessel Model: West Bay 4500
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2
How is coastal vs near-coastal determined ? It looks like there are some parts of that journey where you could be 100 yards offshore but still be 50 miles from shelter.
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I'm not aware of a distinction between near coastal and coastal.
If you're asking about insurance geographic definitions would be up to the underwriter. They often take into account owner/operator experience, type and condition of the boat and time of year.
If you're asking about USCG licensing there are 3 scopes. Inland, defined by the CFRs. Near coastal, out to 200 nm. Oceans, anywhere on the globe.
__________________
Some things are worth doing simply because they are worth doing.
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04-27-2021, 08:37 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: AZZURRA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 54
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,308
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Insurance companies get real excited if you leave the inland passage in the PNW. I don’t remember the designated distance on the Columbia. Pu Hana would know that.
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04-27-2021, 10:38 AM
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#34
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Guru
City: Great Lakes
Vessel Model: OA 440
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 904
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I just watched a number of videos of small fishing boats (25-30 feet) crossing the bar. Some in semi-rough conditions, some virtually smooth with just a long swell. The fishermen picked their weather and tides, and had zero issues that I could see. Yes, it could be a problem for idiots, but a non-event if the operator does a little planning. With today's weather/wind/wave forecasting tools this looks like a cake walk for a couple of reasonably savvy boaters. I've done ten hours (half at night) up the middle of Lake Michigan by myself multiple times. If the new boat owner is along for the trip down the river to Portland he should be comfortable with the boat's handling characteristics before continuing on the next leg. Of course that's up to him. As I said...I'd go with minimal insurance if a company gave me a hard time....and that's with or without a hired captain.
By the way, how does a west coast boater get experience with coastal cruising without doing it? Hire a training captain who apparently has no official recognition by an insurance company beyond a piece of paper?
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04-27-2021, 12:23 PM
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#35
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VF46
Greetings,
I am in the process of purchasing a 1976 Vic Franck 46 Pilothouse. The boat is currently in The Dalles, OR and will be going to Portland for the out of water survey. She's a heavy fiberglass boat that has twin Cat 3208 NA engines with about 3400 hours. If all goes well, as it should because it has been very well maintained, I will be needing help to bring it to Tacoma. At this time I don't have the experience to bring it down the Columbia River, cross the bar and up the coast into Puget Sound.
I am looking for a Captain with the experience to help me transport the boat. Is there anyone in the area, either Portland or Seattle/Tacoma area that would be willing to take on this task? I've talked to a few people that are quoting $600 per day. I understand the whole, you get what you pay for routine but it seems like I read not too long ago the rate was closer to $350 per day. If that's really what it's going to take I guess that's what I'll pay. I just wanted to put it out there and see if anyone had any thoughts about my situation. Thanks!
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My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain.
Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.
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04-27-2021, 07:14 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vessel Name: Xanadu
Vessel Model: Mainship 37 Motor Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders
My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain....Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.
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Really? Boy, if that's true I'm way behind.
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04-27-2021, 07:27 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
City: San Francisco
Vessel Name: Couple’s Retreat
Vessel Model: 2019 North Pacific 45
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 463
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+1 for jack. He moved mine from Blaine to SFO.
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04-27-2021, 07:34 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Vessel Name: MoonShadow
Vessel Model: Wendon Skylounge 72'
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthoennes
Really? Boy, if that's true I'm way behind.
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$650 a day works out to about $80k a year if you consider that you will have work 50% of the 5 day work week. I suspect most delivery skippers do not manage that level of activity.
~A
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04-27-2021, 07:39 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
City: Lynden
Vessel Name: Joint Venture
Vessel Model: 1978 GlasPly 2800 mid cabin
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders
My first thought is $650 a day for a professional captain is a bargain.
Most here on TF if still in their working years make more than that, especially when you consider their benefits packages in addition to their salary.
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Maybe in Alaska, but here in Washington State thats about $170k a year and I know few people that make that. Even my wife as a university professor doesn't make that, I didn't as an Electrical Engineer as well. And benefit packages have gotten pretty slim in the past 20 years too. When was the last time you heard of a pension plan as a fringe benefit?
__________________
"Joint Venture" 1978 midcabin 2800, twin 2017 Vortec roller cam "bullet proof" 383/6.3L full roller 350hp engines
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04-27-2021, 08:06 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
City: Lynden
Vessel Name: Joint Venture
Vessel Model: 1978 GlasPly 2800 mid cabin
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
I just watched a number of videos of small fishing boats (25-30 feet) crossing the bar. Some in semi-rough conditions, some virtually smooth with just a long swell. The fishermen picked their weather and tides, and had zero issues that I could see. Yes, it could be a problem for idiots, but a non-event if the operator does a little planning. With today's weather/wind/wave forecasting tools this looks like a cake walk for a couple of reasonably savvy boaters. I've done ten hours (half at night) up the middle of Lake Michigan by myself multiple times. If the new boat owner is along for the trip down the river to Portland he should be comfortable with the boat's handling characteristics before continuing on the next leg. Of course that's up to him. As I said...I'd go with minimal insurance if a company gave me a hard time....and that's with or without a hired captain.
By the way, how does a west coast boater get experience with coastal cruising without doing it? Hire a training captain who apparently has no official recognition by an insurance company beyond a piece of paper?
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For the most part I agree with you. Having grown up around boats on Hoods Canal in Washington and having my present boat the past 16 years, traveling from Bellingham to Astoria round trip, crossing the bar twice (going & coming) I saw no problems IF common sense is used and crossing at high water slack. Boating up the coast to Neah Bay with a fuel & overnight stop in La Push. Around the corner at Neah Bay and heading down the straits to Bellingham. I either missed something or we are talking about another area. Yes its a jaunt at 7-8 knots but with common sense and some sea going experience it's a not crossing an ocean. Heck I have traveled to K town and back and didn't see that as anything next to impossible. Traveling 60 miles out for tuna, salmon and halibut is an almost twice yearly event for me. 20-30 miles out is almost a monthly experience BUT it's being weather wise, boating wise and knowing your equipment and it's capabilities that makes the difference. And I never called my insurance agent. Couldn't see a reason to.
__________________
"Joint Venture" 1978 midcabin 2800, twin 2017 Vortec roller cam "bullet proof" 383/6.3L full roller 350hp engines
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