Heating

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jclays

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
467
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Freebird
Vessel Make
1997 Mainship 350
What do you use for to heat the interior of your trawler when you are on the hook or a mooring away from shore power? My heating is a unit incorporated with air conditioning and needs shore power or the generator to operate. Fall, winter, spring boating gets pretty cool sometime.
 
Diesel heater. Eberspracher (sp?). Webasto also makes them. We have reverse cycle a/c, but MUCH prefer the diesel heater for heating. Energy bovines that we are, we have been known to run rhe diesel heater and a/c together for brief periods to dehumidify in extreme humidity situations in Scandinavia, without getting too cold.
 
ScottC said:
We have reverse cycle a/c, but MUCH prefer the diesel heater for heating.
Click to expand...

I’m debating heating source right now. Any reason you much prefer diesel heat? Is this hydronic or forced air?
 
Forced air. You can duct the outlets where you want them…which is close to the floor. Keeps feet warm and the heat rises. A reverse cycle a/c has the outlet registers much higher. Heating with this can result in a ”warm” cabin which is still uncomfortably cold where your feet are.
 
In the PNW, diesel heat makes a lot of sense. You already have the fuel, it heats up a cold boat quickly, and doesn’t take the generator to run. I’ve got a hydronic diesel furnace on our boat and love it. My prior two boats (both sailboats) I had forced air diesel heat. Also very nice.
 
I have 2 heat sources. A 30,000 BTU diesel fireplace by Toyotomi and a Newport Dickinson Propane fireplace. Both are awesome and heat the boat up very quickly.
 
We are big fans of our Wallas Spartan forced air diesel heater. Low amp draw and very fuel efficient while on the hook. We actually keep it on almost all winter while in the slip, too. Bonus is it's the quietest forced air heater on the market.
 
Diesel is the most sensible heat source for on the hook.

Propane and alcohol are also sources.

Propane and alcohol do not need to be vented to the outside but that advantage does not over come the negative of fumes and moisture being released inside the cabin.

There are many options with diesel. Forced air, hydronic and stove.

Hydronic is the nicest for multiple zone comfort. It is also the most expensive to install. Forced air is almost as nice as hydronic for multiple zone control. It’s cheaper than hydronic to install but it’s more difficult to run a 3” hose than a 3/4” hose and forced air is noisier.

Stove style is the simplest and cheapest. Usually just mounted on a wall and vented straight up through the cabin top. It is the Worst with multiple zone control. It is visibly the least appealing. It is the lowest maintenance system.

Not knowing what your usage is it is hard to make a recommendation on which of the three systems would be appropriate.
 
I am thinking more of a portable propane heater that I can move with me from the salon to the stateroom when I go to bed. Safe to run while I sleep. I have a 1997 Mainship 350.
 
Hydronic heater. They come with pex now to making the installation easier.
 
tiltrider1 said:
Diesel is the most sensible heat source for on the hook.

Propane and alcohol are also sources.

Propane and alcohol do not need to be vented to the outside but that advantage does not over come the negative of fumes and moisture being released inside the cabin.

There are many options with diesel. Forced air, hydronic and stove.

Hydronic is the nicest for multiple zone comfort. It is also the most expensive to install. Forced air is almost as nice as hydronic for multiple zone control. It’s cheaper than hydronic to install but it’s more difficult to run a 3” hose than a 3/4” hose and forced air is noisier.

Stove style is the simplest and cheapest. Usually just mounted on a wall and vented straight up through the cabin top. It is the Worst with multiple zone control. It is visibly the least appealing. It is the lowest maintenance system.

Not knowing what your usage is it is hard to make a recommendation on which of the three systems would be appropriate.
Click to expand...

Propane produces DEADLY CARBON MONOXIDE so must always be vented outside.
 
Odd that reverse cycle a/c is notably absent from conversation. Of course, it demands genset on all nite. But it is my go to for heat. Maybe 3 x per year. [emoji41]
 
We bought an inexpensive (~$250) Chinese diesel heater for use when we were on the hard for a few months. It was just for temporary use. But we really liked it and are continuing to use it. It's mounted midship and keeps us cozy. 1/2 gallon per 24 hours.
 
jclays said:
I am thinking more of a portable propane heater that I can move with me from the salon to the stateroom when I go to bed. Safe to run while I sleep. I have a 1997 Mainship 350.
Click to expand...
One winter as a liveaboard in Seattle I used a Little Buddy portable propane heater on the coldest days and nights to add a little more heat. Unitl it ran away at full heat and could not be shut down. I could not close the valve either. I think it was frozen condensation that froze up the valve and regulator. It all looked pretty frosty to me. One of the waste components of propane is water. There may have been some water in the fuel. I just don't know. The entire unit was overheating. I took it out to the dock and tipped it over. Fortunately the tip over safety worked and it shut down. I never again ran it on high, nor did I run it when sleeping.
 
koliver said:
Propane produces DEADLY CARBON MONOXIDE so must always be vented outside.
Click to expand...

Propane does produce small amounts of Carbon Monoxide. This does not make it unsafe. The heaters all come with low Oxygen sensors and recommend the use of carbon monoxide sensors, something that should already be on all boats.

I already stated that I don’t like propane because of its higher risk. However, stating it must be vented outside is incorrect.
 
American Tug 34, NL 6kw, 2 installed resistance heater, 2 reverse cycle A/C.
When the resistance are ON no room on the A/C bus for ANYTHING else other than the battery charger. Sure cant make coffee on the AC bus with both heaters ON. The water heater is a big NO NO too. Even in FL winters I have used the 2 resistance heaters to heat up the boat until the sun comes alive.
 
We use the cheap chineese diesel heaters, have been using one now for five years, it gives steady heat, is quiet, trouble free, and uses very little power.

Only problem (and I suspect this is true of all diesel heaters) is that when it reaches the max temp setpoint, it doesn't shut off, just throttles down, which can lead to waking up in the middle of the night in a sweat from too much heat. They are built like this because it takes extra battery power to run the glow plug when they start and stop.

There is an aftermarket controller called Afterburner that lets you control all that as well as fan speeds, timers, setpoint intervals, etc, and now the unit preforms just like my heating system at home, using a little extra battery.

Heater was $150, Afterburner $100, can't beat it.
 
If you like the traditional appearance of bulkhead heaters, there are of course diesel versions (Dickenson shown below), and also Force 10 produced a propane version thar a friend installed on his Cal 31 sailboat. Worked well, vent stack is 1-inch so doesn't require a massive hole. I think it's 6000 Btu so fairly modest. Also relatively small compared to diesel. Works well for shoulder seasons and easy to install. Proper precautions for propane a must, of course.

Peter Screenshot_20220920-050656_DuckDuckGo.jpgScreenshot_20220920-050550_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
Combustion produces water. Also unless draw is from outside the boat bulkhead heaters have their issues. Have had several and happy with none of them. Also need to pay attention that they’re still lit. If boat is rocking a bit flame can go out. Most will tolerate 15-20 degrees and even more briefly but it’s still a potential problem. Seems true for any drip heater. On a bigger boat think a Refleks heater makes a lot of sense if room allows. They’re Danish but have good support in New England as some of the fish boats use them. Have the pretty fireplace and coils so have hydronic loops for zones. Minimal draw c/w straight hydronic.
Air conduit takes up too much valuable storage space in lockers. Heat is drafty and seems always too hot or cold.
Have hydronic heat in current and last prior boat. Unlike reverse HVAC surrounding water temperature is irrelevant. Heat is even and dry. No combustion in living spaces. Opportunity for as many zones as you want. Last boat even had separate zones for the heads so you weren’t cold getting out of the shower. I like cooler staterooms for sleeping but warmer elsewhere. That becomes possible with hydronic. I like quiet. Both espar and Webasto are quiet. Even quieter than AC units.
We only use reverse when plugged in to the shore and even then only when water temperature allows efficient heat output. Think cruising boats should have both. Our next trip is Melville RI to Hilton Head in mid to late fall. Both hydronic and reverse will be used.
Have heard good things about Wallas forced hot air. On a bigger boat or where the runs are no issue seems an excellent choice. But had nothing but problems with espar forced hot air. Only problem with hydronic has been bleeding out every last bit of air and keeping the nozzle in good condition. If the boat is stored on the hard need to block air in/out at the exhaust. An oily rag jammed in serves well enough or tape it closed.
 
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Original Q:"when you are on the hook or a mooring away from shore power?"
This is where you need to minimize consumption of DC power.
Espar and Webasto (I have had both) use considerable DC power for the start cycle and for fans in their forced air units. Far more than you would tolerate without being plugged in. Both brands offer hydronic units, but no less DC consumption.
Propane offers only small units, such as the Force Ten shown above, with safety issues that need to be properly addressed.
Dickinson offers a bulkhead heater that burns driftwood or pellets, no DC required. It does require tending, so wouldn't be good for times you are away from the boat.
Dickinson also offers good small space heaters, bulkhead or floor mount, or cooking stoves in several sizes. These all operate on the same carburetor, requiring a small DC fan only for startup or high heat use.
Solar controlled fans can be used effectively, but fail when the sun is not available.
 
koliver said:
Original Q:"when you are on the hook or a mooring away from shore power?"

This is where you need to minimize consumption of DC power.

Espar and Webasto (I have had both) use considerable DC power for the start cycle and for fans in their forced air units. Far more than you would tolerate without being plugged in. Both brands offer hydronic units, but no less DC consumption.

Propane offers only small units, such as the Force Ten shown above, with safety issues that need to be properly addressed.

Dickinson offers a bulkhead heater that burns driftwood or pellets, no DC required. It does require tending, so wouldn't be good for times you are away from the boat.

Dickinson also offers good small space heaters, bulkhead or floor mount, or cooking stoves in several sizes. These all operate on the same carburetor, requiring a small DC fan only for startup or high heat use.

Solar controlled fans can be used effectively, but fail when the sun is not available.
Click to expand...
OP is in SoCal. I know it gets cool there, but probably just needs something to take chill off in morning.

Thinking a camping style heater would work fine. $59 for a Mr. Buddy portable. These have decent safety controls to prevent gas leaks.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/mr-...id=98f8cec5496e10aa235aadec93ea95ca&gclsrc=ds

For underway, maybe a Red Dot plumbed into engine coolant circuit just like car heaters are.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/red...liary-hydronic-heater-r-254-16000-btu-150-cfm

Peter
 
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Under way, put your ear muffs on and open the ER floor hatch.
 
mvweebles said:
If you like the traditional appearance of bulkhead heaters, there are of course diesel versions (Dickenson shown below), and also Force 10 produced a propane version thar a friend installed on his Cal 31 sailboat. Worked well, vent stack is 1-inch so doesn't require a massive hole. I think it's 6000 Btu so fairly modest. Also relatively small compared to diesel. Works well for shoulder seasons and easy to install. Proper precautions for propane a must, of course.

Peter View attachment 132185View attachment 132186
Click to expand...



By far the most efficient pleasant option.. I have a larger model with cook top and oven, very nice on a cold rainy day. Another big plus is No noise, no electrical required. I am in NE Canada, so it gets used…
 
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