Heating

[OldDan1943]

With enough solar panels, strong batteries and inverter, and stealing heat from the main engine and bus heaters, reverse cycle a/c, gas stove, 12 vt water maker, one could approach the true 'living off the grid.' I think it is still wise to have a generator too.

 

[eheffa]

We cruise all winter long in the Vancouver Island / Gulf Islands region. We are usually anchored out without access to shore power. Having good heat is essential to being comfortable. (Without it, I would be out there by myself…)

We have a Wallas 40 diesel forced air furnace on our Nordic Tug 37 that works very well. The forced air fan has some white noise inside from the air movement but, unlike some other heaters like the Espar jet engines that we can hear from across the bay, the heater is totally silent outside the boat. I honestly cannot tell if it’s running from outside except to catch the odd whiff of diesel exhaust when the wind is right.

It puts out plenty of heat - enough to be comfortable in sub-freezing temperatures, with reasonable options on the thermostat settings and fan speed to allow it to run at a low level through the night.

The fuel consumption is trivial and current draw once it’s through the 15 minute warmup cycle is ~ 3 - 4 A in its 12V version.

We’ve had the heater for 7 years and it has been very reliable. (I’ve replaced the burner assembly once as a maintenance item.)

Highly recommended.

(Hydronic heating might be nicer with the added benefits of its hot water output but at a much higher price tag.)

 

[nwboater]

I installed Kabola hydronic systems on my last two boats, but on our new-to-us AT34 I opted for the Wallas Spartan. Very pleased with its performance, especially like the ability to start the heater from my bunk via Bluetooth! Highly recommend.

 

[727Gold]

Webasto forced air diesel, ten winters in PNW, absolutely no issues with it.

 

[OldDan1943]

I installed Kabola hydronic systems on my last two boats, but on our new-to-us AT34 I opted for the Wallas Spartan. Very pleased with its performance, especially like the ability to start the heater from my bunk via Bluetooth! Highly recommend.

Where did you mount the heat source? Did you use bus style heaters? How did you control the heat in each zone? How many zones?

 

[nwboater]

Where did you mount the heat source? Did you use bus style heaters? How did you control the heat in each zone? How many zones?

The furnace is located in the engine room. The Wallas is an Air heater (not hydronic) so no bus type heat exchangers. I installed optional mufflers on the air intake which reduce noise considerably, particularly after reaching selected room temp. We have 3 zones: stateroom, head compartment, and saloon. The stateroom is split to provide a little heat inside the hanging locker. Zone temperature is measured via a hard wired sensor located in saloon or by a small remote Bluetooth sensor we can locate anywhere on the boat. Overall, heating is fairly even throughout the boat.

 

[eheffa]

... I installed optional mufflers on the air intake which reduce noise considerably, particularly after reaching selected room temp.

Interesting. Are these mufflers just on the the cold air return or hot air output as well?

-evan

 

[OldDan1943]

The furnace is located in the engine room. The Wallas is an Air heater (not hydronic) so no bus type heat exchangers. I installed optional mufflers on the air intake which reduce noise considerably, particularly after reaching selected room temp. We have 3 zones: stateroom, head compartment, and saloon. The stateroom is split to provide a little heat inside the hanging locker. Zone temperature is measured via a hard wired sensor located in saloon or by a small remote Bluetooth sensor we can locate anywhere on the boat. Overall, heating is fairly even throughout the boat.
View attachment 132411View attachment 132412View attachment 132413

If I touch that hanging closet, it better be under cover of darkness when Yen is not onboard. LOL

 

[Labrador Coaster]

Interesting idea, I am guessing that the muffler is the larger diameter tube. On the intake? I have a WEBASTO and have a single intake that Sounds like a vacuum cleaner going.. I was planning to try a larger opening to hopefully reduce the noise. ( the 3” intake is the same size as the single 3” outtake..)

 

[Hippocampus]

Ted have you measured performance as the sea temperature falls. Totally agree reverse works at surprisingly low water temperatures but requires more energy to generate the heat as temperature falls. So you’re running the genset c/w burning fuel and running a simple pump. In terms of joules or whatever units you want to use believe reverse becomes so inefficient hydronic wins out well before 38 degrees. Believe the hydronic may actually burn less fuel as we need the genset for HVAC units. Also it’s quieter while trying to sleep. More watts, joules whatever isn’t an issue on shore power beyond noise but is elsewhere.

 

[jgwinks]

We bought an inexpensive (~$250) Chinese diesel heater for use when we were on the hard for a few months. It was just for temporary use. But we really liked it and are continuing to use it. It's mounted midship and keeps us cozy. 1/2 gallon per 24 hours.

I put one of those in the previous boat. Worked great, kept the cabin really cozy. And we're in Michigan, maybe worse than PNW except we don't attempt to do winter here. Not much sailing to do when the water's hard.
Only problem I had with the heater is the back light on the digital control went bad, later learned it's a common problem with those. If I held my head just right I could barely see what the temp was set for. On power up it defaulted to 20 deg C which is 68 deg F, right where I would have set it anyway so I just left it there.

 

[jgwinks]

The thing I recommend with these is buy exhaust tubing from an Espar or Webasto dealer or other quality supplier. You will see that it has thicker wall than the Chinese stuff which rots out pretty quickly.

Also the exhaust mufflers on the Chinese units have a drain hole that would vent a little exhaust gas inside the boat. CO poisoning is a possibility, they're really meant to be installed in a truck or bus where the muffler is outside. I used the Webasto muffler and through hull fitting instead. Those two together cost more than I paid for the heater.

 

[Barnabas Colllins]

Our Espar heater went belly up on our inside passage trip this summer. No heat for a month. Not that it was super cold but the dampness just got old. Anyway, apparently you need a tech with a gadget to diagnose certain issues with that brand and there is a total of maybe one or two of them between Vancouver and Anchorage.
Rather than deal with the damp for another month we simply ripped out the Esbar and replaced with Planar. Works like a champ and parts are much cheaper. I’m convinced if you don’t go hydronic for the on demand hot water this is the 2nd best way to go. Dries out the boat nicely.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I have ITR Hurricane hydronic. My cruising area is Washington state north to Alaska.

The advantages are:
1 - Warm comfortable heat with zones. Effectively keeps the boat warm in freezing weather.
2 - With a heat exchanger use waste heat from the engines to reduce boiler run times.
3 - Hot water without running the generator.
4 - If I wanted to I could plumb engine pre-heating into the system.
5 - Excellent support from ITR when needed. By phone or email. Parts quickly shipped.
6 - Once you understand the system it is easy to troubleshoot and for the most part simple to repair.
7 - Easier to run small water hoses than ducting when installing. If hoses are routed under or through clothing lockers they will be kept warm and dry.

The disadvantages are:
1 - Up to 8 AMPs when starting up from cold boat. The boiler runs full time until all zones are up to temperature. 3 zones with 5 fans. Then intermittent electrical load as zones call for heat.
2 - May be a bit slower to warm up the boat than forced air.
3 - The boiler takes more space than a forced air system.
4 - Installation if done professionally is expensive.

With a modest house bank of six 12 volt golf car batteries I need to run the gen each day if not underway to make up the total draw from heater, refer and all the smaller loads.

 

[tiltrider1]

I have ITR Hurricane hydronic. My cruising area is Washington state north to Alaska.

The advantages are:
1 - Warm comfortable heat with zones. Effectively keeps the boat warm in freezing weather.
2 - With a heat exchanger use waste heat from the engines to reduce boiler run times.
3 - Hot water without running the generator.
4 - If I wanted to I could plumb engine pre-heating into the system.
5 - Excellent support from ITR when needed. By phone or email. Parts quickly shipped.
6 - Once you understand the system it is easy to troubleshoot and for the most part simple to repair.
7 - Easier to run small water hoses than ducting when installing. If hoses are routed under or through clothing lockers they will be kept warm and dry.

The disadvantages are:
1 - Up to 8 AMPs when starting up from cold boat. The boiler runs full time until all zones are up to temperature. 3 zones with 5 fans. Then intermittent electrical load as zones call for heat.
2 - May be a bit slower to warm up the boat than forced air.
3 - The boiler takes more space than a forced air system.
4 - Installation if done professionally is expensive.

With a modest house bank of six 12 volt golf car batteries I need to run the gen each day if not underway to make up the total draw from heater, refer and all the smaller loads.

I am a big fan of ITR Hurricane systems. Mostly due to the fact that they are easy to self repair. It seems the Webasto and the Espar have a tendency to not work after sitting idle for the summer. Meaning they seem to break on you when you need it most. They are rarely self repairable and the system usually must be removed and taken to the shop. With ITR I have spares of the 3 main components onboard as a back up plan. To date I have only need to replace one of the components.

 

[Jeff F]

+1 on ITR. I installed a Chinook unit 2 years ago and it has > 1,500 hrs w/o issue. We're going into another winter frozen in on the great lakes with it as my primary heat source.

Love the on-demand hot water.

 

[Hippocampus]

Even though plugged in and with reasonable water temperatures ran the espar hydronic last night. First time this year. Found it very quiet c/w the reverse AC. Excellent heat. Once coolant up to temperature furnace ran with quite decent intervals in between. Turned all zones except pilot house up to max for ~10m then turned it off for the night. Boat was warm and comfy upon awakening this AM. Fuel burn wasn’t enough for a reliable measure.

 

[Lostsailor13]

I’m a full time liveaboard in Massachusetts and use a 1500 ceramic on shore power,also have Chinese diesel heater,and a Dickinson Antarctic model with double coil in firebox,hooked up to thermostat bypass on my Detroit diesel,and on the coldest New England winter night the interior is perfect,with them all on high,it will cook me rite out of the boat

 

[Mako]

@Lost, can you expand on your "Dickinson Antarctic model with double coil in firebox,hooked up to thermostat bypass on my Detroit diesel"

 

[Lostsailor13]

You can order the copper coil from Dickinson,it installs in fire chamber of heater and has input and output,using a 12v Teflon pump it pulls the antifreeze after being heated in Dickinson then pushes it through the thermostat bypass into the engine coolant system and oil cooler,a continuous loop,pretty easy setup

 

[Mako]

So is your intent to keep the engine block warm or to draw heat off the engine when running?