Hans Christian Independence 45? Any input?

[bowball]

Any feedback on the boat? I see it’s full beam and entry through the swim deck? Not much outdoor space. And they are older.

But it has that wonderful high maintenance Hans Christian woodwork and cabinetry.

Any other feedback? Suitability for Hudson River to Canada, Maine? Maybe Bahamas.

Compared to a Helmsman, which clear is much newer and more $, but seems to lack the old school charm relatively.

[Jeff F]

They'd be around 35 years old now. I haven't been aboard one, but have admired from afar. HC sailboats were pretty nicely finished.

OC Diver has put a lot of miles on his Cherubini sistership. I'm sure he'll chime in.

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by bowball

Any feedback on the boat? I see it’s full beam and entry through the swim deck? Not much outdoor space. And they are older.

But it has that wonderful high maintenance Hans Christian woodwork and cabinetry.

Any other feedback? Suitability for Hudson River to Canada, Maine? Maybe Bahamas.

Compared to a Helmsman, which clear is much newer and more $, but seems to lack the old school charm relatively.

Very nice boats! My sister ship has done the Great Loop, been through all the Great Lakes, North Channel, Georgian Bay, Rideau canal, Trent Severn canal, Erie canal, Champlain canal and lake, Hudson river, and the East coast to South Florida. It would be fine for the Bahamas, but not my choice to go deep into the Caribbean.

If you have a specific one you're considering, post a link. Probably some things I can point out for you.

Ted

[Jeff F]

Old school charm comes with a cost. Even a high quality boat lightly used is well into middle age, and maintaining that charm as well as updating systems can get you in pretty deep.

An older helmsman/Mariner or Nordic Tug seem like attractive good value choices.

Of course if old world charm is at top of list, go for it.

[bowball]

It is the old school charm, plus a tip to my fathers longtime love of HC sailboats. Thinking of a last father/son cruise as I can’t get him to BC. I don’t mind updating systems as long as the end result is great. . Open to other ideas. Williard etc. May try to find a place to charter as that undoubtedly makes more sense.

[bowball]

Originally Posted by O C Diver

Very nice boats! My sister ship has done the Great Loop, been through all the Great Lakes, North Channel, Georgian Bay, Rideau canal, Trent Severn canal, Erie canal, Champlain canal and lake, Hudson river, and the East coast to South Florida. It would be fine for the Bahamas, but not my choice to go deep into the Caribbean.

If you have a specific one you're considering, post a link. Probably some things I can point out for you.

Ted

That’s the usage I have in my mind. Thanks.

[mvweebles]

Bowball - I assume you're referring to this boat HERE.. You mention a Willard. If comparison is to the W40PH, this would have at least 2x the interior space due to full-width saloon. A bit of history - the first W40 was a PH version and had a full-width saloon. Vega (Willard) then moved to a sedan layout, though did build a 'wide-body' version or two with full-width saloon. Sort of an awkward looking boat but roomy.

When Willard made their last go at the Trawler market in the late 1990's and into the early 2000s, they settled on a PH version with full walkaround decks. I was not too close to the folks at Willard at the time, but we conversed a bit - I expressed that I thought it was a mistake to have two walkaround decks. And it was - I was at every TrawlerFest for about 3-years and watched buyer reaction when they boarded a N40 and a W40, usually right next to one another. Other 'charm' trawlers that come to mind are the Lord Nelson Victory Tug (37-feet?) and the Pilgrim 40. I know nothing about build quality.

But I digress ----- the Independence 45, even by teak-loving Hans Christian, seems fairly manageable from a maintenance perspective. Looks like a nice boat. A bit over-powered perhaps, which is why I'd imagine Ted's Slow Hand has a Deere 4045T at around 200 hp I would think.

Ted/OC Diver - question: What is the difference/history between Cherubini and Hans Christian for the Independence 45????

Peter

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

But I digress ----- the Independence 45, even by teak-loving Hans Christian, seems fairly manageable from a maintenance perspective. Looks like a nice boat. A bit over-powered perhaps, which is why I'd imagine Ted's Slow Hand has a Deere 4045T at around 200 hp I would think.

Ted/OC Diver - question: What is the difference/history between Cherubini and Hans Christian for the Independence 45????

Peter

My Boat has the 132 HP version of the 4045TFM75. But the non turbo 80 HP version would have been enough to reach 8 knots at WOT.

From what I have read, the man who built and owned the molds for the the Independence 45 teamed with Hans Christian and built 19 boats. They had a falling out and he brought the molds back to the USA and partnered with Cherubini. They built boats to order and also built a 50' version.

Ted

[lwarden]

It would be interesting to hear the story behind this boat. Ad says PO spent 3 years looking for the boat to satisfy his wife, then it appears installed the new Cummins engine a few years ago. However, the new engine only has 62 hours on it, so very little use in that time. Guess the wife wasn't really happy with it after all.
Really nice boat though and appears to have been well kept.

[bowball]

I saw that boat for sale. Looks rather modified on the interior sadly.

This started as my father sent me a link to a HC sailboat he always admired, and expressed regret he never had one. He’s recovered from cancer but it’s a difficult situation, and I’m looking for a way to have a lifetime excursion with him. He won’t come to BC.

I also have to say that the Independence 45 has beautiful lines. Another 3’ in the aft cockpit, a side boarding door and it would be even more amazing.

This is all probably just wishful thinking

[CharlieO.]

Just charter a nice boat for a month or however long in pops neighborhood and go for a voyage. Jump on the boat and go. Fill the tanks when you return.

[bowball]

Originally Posted by CharlieO.

Just charter a nice boat for a month or however long in pops neighborhood and go for a voyage. Jump on the boat and go. Fill the tanks when you return.

I’d like to do that. I’ll have to research where I can charter in the area.

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by lwarden

It would be interesting to hear the story behind this boat. Ad says PO spent 3 years looking for the boat to satisfy his wife, then it appears installed the new Cummins engine a few years ago. However, the new engine only has 62 hours on it, so very little use in that time. Guess the wife wasn't really happy with it after all.
Really nice boat though and appears to have been well kept.

That boat has been on the market for over a year. Had 2 different people call me about it. There are a number of discrepancies between the pictures and the description.

It's not a "B" Cummins, it's a "C".
It's not a new engine. I had that same engine in my charter boat. I'm guessing based on the HP, it's 30 years old. It might be rebuilt or only repainted.

They probably thought upping the HP was going to get more speed. Without trim tabs, I doubt doubling the HP would get it on top. With trim tabs, maybe 450 HP.

It's overpriced as they're probably trying to recover the cost of swapping the engine.

Ted

[Jeff F]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Other 'charm' trawlers that come to mind are the Lord Nelson Victory Tug (37-feet?) and the Pilgrim 40. I know nothing about build quality.

The list isn't long. I've seen a couple of Jay Benford designs that I thought were very handsome. Can't think of any other NA production boats offhand.

But if teak etc is part of the requirement that sends us back to Far East builders.

[LN-RTP]

It's overpriced as they're probably trying to recover the cost of swapping the engine.

I have been eyeballing that boat (on the internet) the last 2 days.
Sold my Albin 28TE last year and miss having a boat for longer trips and miss the keys and the Bahamas.
I like the single 300hp diesel (and the fact it is brand new with only 62 hrs on it)
Also like the bow thruster and the looks of the pilot house and the boat in general.
Don’t like the external teak…

What is a more realistic price for this old boat? (I was thinking $150-160k but know next to nothing about trawlers in general and this HC 45 in particular)

Also open to other roomy SE trawlers under $200k, cash buyer.

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by LN-RTP

I have been eyeballing that boat (on the internet) the last 2 days.
Sold my Albin 28TE last year and miss having a boat for longer trips and miss the keys and the Bahamas.
I like the single 300hp diesel (and the fact it is brand new with only 62 hrs on it)
Also like the bow thruster and the looks of the pilot house and the boat in general.
Don’t like the external teak…

What is a more realistic price for this old boat? (I was thinking $150-160k but know next to nothing about trawlers in general and this HC 45 in particular)

Also open to other roomy SE trawlers under $200k, cash buyer.

Ok, once again, it's not a new engine. Those engines were built in that HP in the 1980s. The timing chain cover on the port side will have the manufacturer's identification tag (including date of manufacturer). Without an invoice from a reputable rebuilder, it's a used motor with a new paint job.

Second, if you're planning to cruise it, under the section "Other Details ", scroll down to "Engine Room ", it says, "Engine Consumes About 5 Gph at 1600 Rpm, Generating About 7 MPG". This is about 1.4 miles per gallon. For comparison, my boat gets about 5 miles per gallon at that speed. This engine swap wasn't a good match. A 2,800 mile trip will cost you $10,000 in fuel at today's prices.

Without knowing what the real story on the engine is, I would assume you're buying a boat that may require repowering or rebuilding.

Ted

[LN-RTP]

Originally Posted by O C Diver

Ok, once again, it's not a new engine. Those engines were built in that HP in the 1980s. The timing chain cover on the port side will have the manufacturer's identification tag (including date of manufacturer). Without an invoice from a reputable rebuilder, it's a used motor with a new paint job.

Second, if you're planning to cruise it, under the section "Other Details ", scroll down to "Engine Room ", it says, "Engine Consumes About 5 Gph at 1600 Rpm, Generating About 7 MPG". This is about 1.4 miles per gallon. For comparison, my boat gets about 5 miles per gallon at that speed. This engine swap wasn't a good match. A 2,800 mile trip will cost you $10,000 in fuel at today's prices.

Without knowing what the real story on the engine is, I would assume you're buying a boat that may require repowering or rebuilding.

Ted

Thx for the additional info and yes I would not buy a boat requiring a new engine, especially when the present engine is advertised as new..

[Petersl44]

Originally Posted by lwarden

It would be interesting to hear the story behind this boat. Ad says PO spent 3 years looking for the boat to satisfy his wife, then it appears installed the new Cummins engine a few years ago. However, the new engine only has 62 hours on it, so very little use in that time. Guess the wife wasn't really happy with it after all.
Really nice boat though and appears to have been well kept.

I am the wife you speak of. We purchased this boat in 2010 and used it every chance we got when work and our children's schedule would allow. When we replaced the engine in 2020 I did not know I would take on a caregiving role for an elderly parent. So the lack of use on the new engine was because I became the 24/7 caregiver to my bedridden mother. Sitters were hard to come by during COVID. My mother passed after two years of care in my home and other ill and elderly family members have consumed a lot of our time since then. We are slowly beginning to use the boat a little more, but I'm not as young as I used to be ... LOL. And, yes, it has a new engine, transmission, exhaust, motor mounts, etc., installed by a top of the line diesel mechanic, and we have the receipts. It is a wonderful boat and would love to see her go to a new owner who can spend more time using her. I don't normally respond to these type messages, but felt it necessary to account for the lack of hours on the new engine and the presumed lack of interest by the "wife".

[BruceK]

Well said Peters144. A wise Judge says assumption and presumption by lawyers are serious errors. Wider application is possible.

[Petersl44]

Thank you, BruceK. Life "happens" sometimes beyond our control, unfortunately.