Great Harbor Trawlers still in business?

[AusCan]

I really appreciate the input Ken / Joe / Henry. Thanks a bunch.

Ken -I admire anyone who is willing to take a risk and deviate from the status quo to come up with a good looking functional product, although the path is fraught with danger.
IMO - you have done something extrordinanary, by breaking the mold and still producing a product a traditionalist would love.

Congratulations!

 

[LouCodega]

I have never gotten involved in internet discussions, but given how much I’ve been referred to here, perhaps it’s time.

The GH and N boats sprang from a long running discussion that Ken and I had about economical cruising boats. We had been passing sketches back and forth of long, narrow cruising boats when it dawned on us that fuel costs are not a very significant expense at true displacement speeds. But you pay for everything else by the foot. What were the tradeoffs of making the boat as short as possible?

As Ken mentioned, the hull was designed for flat panel glass construction to minimize tooling costs. Anyone who finds the hull particularly unique should google for images of work and fishing boats in drydock. Also look at some of the work of Jay Benford and Phil Bolger. I do ok with curves, check out some of my other designs, but there is not much of a performance sacrifice with flat panels in this application.

And while you are at it, go to Ken’s very informative web site and look up the Trawler Truths section. Lots of words and pictures there, no reason to trust faulty memories.

Let’s talk about the seakeeping characteristics.

First, don’t take my word for it. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has run a GH/N will tell about some occasion when they were running alongside a similar size or even larger boat that was rolling the fillings out of the crews’ teeth while they were having an uneventful passage. The bottom line, so to speak, is that the design works. This is not marketing hype from the ad department, listen to the owners.

Why does it work? The short version is this – seakeeping, and rolling in particular, can be described as a spring/mass/damper system. Compared to other boats, the GH/Ns are a very stiff spring, with a high mass and massive damping. As most of you have probably observed, a boat rolls most when its roll period aligns with the frequency of the waves. The GH/N roll period corresponds to that of very small waves that have very little energy, so it is difficult to get it rolling in the first place. (Picture pushing a child on a swing set. If you push in synch with the natural frequency, very little force is needed to get a large motion. Push out of synch, as hard as you might, and you get very little motion.) The boat is heavy, so it takes a lot of energy to get it to roll. (To continue the analogy, it takes a lot more effort to get an older, larger, child moving than a younger one.) Finally, the hard chines and deep skegs provide a lot of damping to what motion does occur. No swing set analogy here, but there’s a reason why log rolling competitions are done on logs rather than 12x12s.

How do they differ from cats, also very stiff boats but sometimes criticized for a short, jerky motion? Cats typically have very little mass and almost no damping. Think for a moment about how the hulls move through the water. Up and down, essentially bobbing like a cork.

Here’s the key that even some so-called professionals don’t get: a boat in a seaway does not roll at the boat’s natural frequency. It rolls at the frequency of the waves that it’s encountering. A pundit saying that a stiff boat rolls too much really does not understand the physics. Or he’s extrapolating big ship thinking to smaller boats without thinking enough.

Enough for now. Thanks for listening.

Lou Codega

 

[brian eiland]

Form Stability and Rolling

Hi Lou,
I wanted to let you know I found your discussion/method of explanation of the From Stability rather interesting. I need to re-read it again to fully grasp the explanation. I'm looking to understand these powerboat motions more thoroughly while I plan a new bottom for another project.

I suspect that those rather large 'flat plate' skegs are also contributing to dampening the roll.



Back in postings #29 & #28 I mentioned it
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland
....I thought that somewhere else on their website there was more reference to the advantages of keeping weight out of the structures of the vessel above the waterline, PARTICULARLY at greater heights, but I did not find it. However here is an interesting point of view on stability of these style vessels.
Form Stability vs. Ballast and Stabilizers



Quote:
Originally Posted by website
The angle to which a boat rolls in response to an upsetting force is a function of the shape of the watertight boundary of the hull, deck and topsides, the weight, and the center of gravity. On our trawlers, we have maximized stability by many design characteristics. These include a wide beam, not just in the hull but in the deckhouse; hard chines, a low center of gravity resulting from the heavily laid up solid hull construction combined with a light weight, high strength cored construction for the topsides, liquids located low in hull through the use of narrow, integral tanks,

 

[brian eiland]

Great Harbor 74'

BTW, did you guys ever build that 74 footer you guys were contemplating?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Welcome to the forum LouCodega,

I generally lean toward the long and narrow but at times I wish my 30' Willard was 12' wide instead of 10.5'. The boat is a tad bit overpowered at 5hp per ton so should do fine w it's present power and I'd gain a great deal of space. It may turn what most think is a very shapely boat into a little tub. With that much beam 2 tons of ballast wouldn't be necessary and I just can't help thinking it could be a better boat.

Another observation I've made about the GH is that the bow is very wedge shaped. The WL fwd should (judging from the photos) be a relatively straight line for the 1st quarter of the boat. When this line is parallel to fwd quartering head seas some slamming should result. Changing course of course even a fairly small amount should change things to the better .. of course. And of course most boats with their constantly curved fwd sides would always present a portion of the bow that that is parallel to seas at a wide range of angles of head seas. But when the GH changes course a bit I see the potential for smoother going than most boats most of the time so this feature of the GH (if it exists) could be a good thing.

I consider my Willard (in Avatar) to be a short boat and since I've been fond of long boats for so long I was surprised to observe what I think is a very good seaworthyness feature of short boats. The stern isn't way back there driving the bow down into the next sea. The Willard's bow rises up even to sharp seas of about 8' smartly enough that I've never had much of anything but some spray on the foredeck. A nice feature I'd say and the GH shouldn't be burying her bow either. Hard to imagine.

LouCodega wrote;
"The GH and N boats sprang from a long running discussion that Ken and I had about economical cruising boats. We had been passing sketches back and forth of long, narrow cruising boats when it dawned on us that fuel costs are not a very significant expense at true displacement speeds. But you pay for everything else by the foot. What were the tradeoffs of making the boat as short as possible?"

I agree and that's the basis for my "wide Willard" thoughts I mentioned first. Cost per cu ft or size of a boat goes down as it's aspect ratio does. But whatever happened to "economical cruising boats"? I hear the GH is very expensive. Perhaps I'm just misinformed or the informer was thinking of cost per lineal foot.

 

[Rockbottom]

Great Harbour Secrets

I guess Lou and I are letting the cat out of the bag maybe too much. Everyone should be starting to get the idea that when the design team goes to work, which also includes the marketing department and the accounting department, that issues and solutions start to potentially diverge from what might be a perfect design for strict "seaworthiness". The key is to put together the best set of compromises for the expected use of the boat. If Lou and I were to discuss a boat that would go continuously around the world it most definitely would not look like any of the Great Harbours and we would be lucky to sell one. The trick is to design stuff that works best in a series of ways, from cruising capabilities to maintenance cost to sales price. Hopefully we make the right choices and have a successful product. The beam of the Great Harbours? Easy, 15'10" because over 16' becomes a very expensive slip and the shipping costs by truck double! And you all thought it was a carefully derived number for stability!

 

[healhustler]

Thanks Lou, Ken, Joe & Henry for heading off another thread on Great Harbours that would ultimately leave most of us in the "Duh" state. For some of us that may aspire to GH's, it's really, REALLY important that you have shared some of the practical thinking behind your unique product line. The influences on hull form in the process of designing and building a sale-able product never came up in the various discussions I've read on GH's. It was great timing, and greatly appreciated.

 

[Animal]

Thanks Lou, Ken, Joe & Henry for heading off another thread on Great Harbours that would ultimately leave most of us in the "Duh" state. For some of us that may aspire to GH's, it's really, REALLY important that you have shared some of the practical thinking behind your unique product line. The influences on hull form in the process of designing and building a sale-able product never came up in the various discussions I've read on GH's. It was great timing, and greatly appreciated.

. Concur! Thanks for your time!

 

[healhustler]

Early this year while working on my boat on the Okeechobee Waterway in Florida, my favorite GH 37 went by. I've admired this paint job ever since I first saw it in Yachtworld, and I've been fooling around with the colors, trying to come up with a design using the same colors on my Manatee. Sorry to say that I missed capturing it from the front, cuz it looks even better from that angle. The nearly 16 ft. beam of the boat is evident in this shot.

Another thing I've come to admire about the GH's are the unapologetic approach to the swim platform. It's there, it's big, and you can put a half dozen people on it, a couple of chairs on it, a plethora of diving equipment, and it's got a big ass dock ladder that one can actually climb bare footed with heavy diving equipment. My Admiral and I supposed that if we had gone ahead with a similar platform on our boat, our usage would have probably doubled or tippled to include our swimming routines. We've got one on the drawling board now. The way we use a boat it makes sense.

 

[Joe Pica]

I just want to make sure no one is confused by those photos. The picture of the boat underway is a GH-37 the swim platform shown is one on a Great Harbour N series with flybridge because there is a ladder which accesses the fly bridge from the after deck...although all have the same swim platform.

Joe

 

[LouCodega]

I’d like to clean up some loose ends from the discussion.

So long as you run at a reasonable displacement /length ratio, speed is sacrificed with a short, wide boat as compared to a long, narrow one of about the same weight. You’re not traveling as fast, but the speed difference is proportional to the square root of the waterline length. The short boat will burn more fuel to reach that sweet spot but you’ll more than make that up, cost wise, when you get to the dock or the travel lift.

Construction cost is primarily a function of weight for the structure and then piecewise for all the stuff that gets installed. There is a relationship to geometry in that labor costs rise once the shape becomes difficult to work on or in. In the range of normally proportioned boats, that is not a huge factor.

The GH/Ns, I think, provide very good value. No boat like this is anywhere near inexpensive, but they compare well to others on a feature to feature basis. And they are built in the US, which is important to both Ken and me, and we hope to potential customers.

Although the hull geometry starts as flat panels, the panels take on curves as they are twisted into shape. As was pointed out, even a small amount of curvature stiffens the panel considerably. Only the tooling was built with flat panels. The hull is built as one piece in a mold and not from panels scarphed together at what appear to be seams. It is then framed with substantial longitudinals and bulkheads. The entire structure was designed to commercial workboat scantlings.

The waterlines forward have more shape than is apparent from the pictures and the hull sides through that area have a good amount of flare. The hull tends to push water down as much as to the sides and this minimizes the effect of the hard corner where the bottom panel transitions into the side. Similar shapes are being used on large ships as commercial yards move to exclusively developable hull forms. As mentioned, sometimes small changes in heading make big differences in ride comfort, but I’m not sure that is unique to the hull form.

As Ken said, the GH/Ns are not the boat that we’d recommend for continual long distance ocean crossings. Ask about that sometime; we’ve got even more radical ideas and I too don’t think we are going to sell even one of those. But different horses for different courses and we think that we’ve got a near ideal compromise for the way many people actually use their boats. And the transport ships provide an option to cover really long distances quickly and at a reasonable price.

And no, the 74 has not yet been built. We both remain hopeful.

 

[brian eiland]

And no, the 74 has not yet been built. We both remain hopeful.

I tried to get you a customer.

New to Yachting; 13 Million to spend -
Hi mates, I am looking forward to obtaining feedback on a dream of mine to own a Yacht and explore the open waters. I have had a passion for boating all my life but due to finances I was lucky to expend 20,000 on a boat. None the less, I enjoyed getting my feet wet. I now have come into money and would like to persue my dream of owning one of the larger boats.

There are so many choices out there, that I am just overwhelmed with where to begin. The biggest boat I have owned is 20', and now I could be looking for a boat upwards of 100'. Reality check?

I know nothing at this point, so will be grabbing all the information I can get. What I do know is I have 13 Million that I am willing to invest, but realistically I am going to have to scale the price back so that I can afford the upkeep/maint/operation costs of this new boat.

I am not sure what to shoot for. Is it realistic to spend 10 Mil on the boat and hanging onto 3 Mil for the operational costs for a 5 year period? I might be getting ahead of myself here, talking about costs already, because in reality I have no clue of what boat I am going to be pursuing.

I want to be able to go down the east coast around FL and into the Gulf. I would even enjoy going straight east for 100 Miles into the middle of no where into the Atlantic ocean. Like I said, Im a virgin to the limits of a boat and navigational capabilities.

I will act like a sponge and absorb all of the information I can get in the upcoming months. I am the type of person that doesn't require/desire any of the extreme bells and whistles. I don't need exotic wood, or any extreme eye candy for that matter. Simple oak finish and modest cosmetics are fine with me. I feel my money is best spent in the mechanical aspect of a boat. I want reliability and function above anything else.

My guess is perhaps I should be looking at a newer yacht. My plans will be to pretty much live on this boat for the next 5 years with my wife. Just a little about myself. I am a handyman in the arts of carpentry, and have even gone as far as overhauling/restoring a 65 mustang.

I have no problem doing basic repairs and getting my hands dirty. I actually welcome/enjoy doing upkeep and maint myself, but I know my limits. Thank you for reading my post and hopefully getting enough feedback to assist me with direction.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

So a whole lot of forum participants over there were trying to sell this fellow a big power yacht.
This was my first suggest.

Smaller Vessels & Shallow Draft
...lets get this discussion back to the subject of alternative vessels rather other alternative investments...the man wants to go boating I believe

I thought I would present the case for smaller vessels, and shallow draft vessels.
1) First off I would lead you to vessel of less than 60 feet. I think you should consider a vessel size that you can fairly quickly become acquainted with handling yourself. This will inspire your self-confidence to go exploring on your own (you and your wife), without feeling the absolute need for a third party captain. You can take your friends out for an afternoon or weekend cruise without feeling the need for an operator. (I once worked for an owner who specifically ask that I take vacation off the vessel when he came to spend time on the vessel with his wife).

2) As you are brand new to boating I would NOT suggest any sail power, although you may come to appreciate it in the future once you experience it on someone else's vessel.

3) I would NOT suggest a new-build (custom project) until you've had a chance to experience some portion of your dream afloat and can make a more informed decision as to your likes/dislikes.

4) I would suggest a nice stable vessel, with a nice house size galley, and a comfortable bathroom (head as it is known). These features are very important for the liveaboard aspect, and they are VERY important for the lady (I'm assuming you really do want to make this dream last for at least 5 years...smile)

5) I would suggest a vessel with shallow draft and well protected props and shaft systems. The protected props and shafts will save you a lot of heartache and money when you make those few mistakes that many new boaters (and a few older ones as well) make on occasions.

I can't emphasis SHALLOW DRAFT enough. Here I am defining shallow draft as 4 feet or less. The Chesapeake Bay (America's largest inland water bay) has a few navigable deep water channels, but the vast majority of its area is 4.5 feet of water or less on average. If you truly want to explore the Chesapeake Bay and its many tributaries (one of the truly great cruising areas), you better have a shallow draft vessel. Ditto for the Outer Banks of NC (I once did them in a 37 foot sailing cat that I could kick up its CB's and rudders to draft only 24 inches). Its nice to have a shallow draft for the Florida keys, and the 10,000 island area of SW Florida, and those inside waterway passages of the west coast of Florida. Gunkholing is so much fun, and you miss some of this fun when your vessel draws too much water....you end up passing many delightful spots for fear of running aground.

If you are intending to do the east coast, then around Florida, you might well consider doing the popular 'Great Loop', up the Mississippi, to the Great Lakes, down the Erie Canal, etc.

And don't forget the Bahamas that whole chain of islands is structured on a shallow ocean shelf that is a delight to go cruising across rather than around, especially with those crystal clear waters. Shallow draft is king!

I started out to write this posting and make a suggestion of a few possible smaller vessels that I had recently become aware of...several of them being production mono-hull (edit added: Great Harbor Trawlers) But as I read my own words, I can't help but think of this wonderful vessel I just spent a few days aboard in Palm Beach. It was recently grabbed up (purchased) by a good friend of mine for his own liveaboard & treasure hunting purposes, so it is not available. I'll present a few details and photos as an example of what I consider a really nice liveaboard cruising vessel that is not too audacious while accomplishing most of what you have in mind plus a few extras...great dive and explore boat.

YachtForums.Com - View Single Post - New to Yachting; 13 Million to spend -

Lets move onto a vessel I believe both you and your wife would really enjoy, a Great Harbor 47 in either the N47 or GH47 configuration.

While I was visiting a friend of mine in St Augustine, FL this past Jan, we took an exploratory ride over to ex-military marina on the St John's river in Green Cove Springs FL. The area peaked my interest enough that I returned there about 3 weeks ago to have another look around. It was early morning and I was exploring all the different waterfront facilities and various vessels. I was particularly looking for live-aboard possibilities, both location and vessels.

I spotted two 'work boat looking' vessels that I vaguely recall seeing some photos of, but I had never paid much attention to them, as I've always been a fan of a 'graceful sheer lines' in boat designs, be it power or sail, and these tug boat shaped hulls didn't possess that. In other words I had never given these designs a second thought...they just weren't too pretty in my eye. Being out of the water I did note the shallow draft of these vessels, the good protection offered to the shafts and props, the generous size of the props that indicated efficient operation, and the apparent quality of the construction.

PHOTOS

Sitting just behind these two 47 footers was a 37 foot version Semper Fi that was being offered for sale. A gentleman in the yard there offered that I might climb up and have a look around this used 37, since there was no broker present at that early hour. I was EXTREMELY impressed !! I've attached some photos I took of this 37 footer that morning. The saloon area was nothing too exciting, but it was executed very nicely and could benefit from some decorating. But then step down into that galley with its full size counters and full size refrigerator, etc. This is a galley that almost any lady, or gentleman chief can appreciate. And the 2 big portlights, and the white walls with wood trim all added to the openness of this galley.

MORE PHOTOS

There was a nice dbl berth state room occupying the bow. Across from the galley there was a head with a nice size shower that had a mini-tub type base with a curtain that would very nicely contain all of the shower waters rather than allowing them to wet the entire bathroom. This was nicely done as well, when you consider how confining the heads can be on small vessels.

MORE PHOTOS

I went looking for engine room access panels in the saloon floor....but wait a minute I found a dedicated engine room access door in the guess cabin/mini office room bulkhead that opened into a full-boat-width formal engine room. Granted it didn't have standing headroom, but certainly it allowed access to all sides of the twin engine installation.

MORE PHOTOS

This vessel had a fly bridge as well, and it was very nicely laid out as well with guess seating and a folding table
WOW, all this in a 37 foot vessel!!

Note that their 47 is the N47 model with abbreviated saloon cabin with a flybridge option, and a big foredeck for the RIB tender. I imagine the GH47 is even larger inside. I sure would like to tour one of these 47's one day, even though they are beyond my budget. I do know my wife would be very happy living on one of these vessels. And I believe they are well conceived to be able to perform most of my own maintenance on the vessel without being a contortionists.


Combine the livability, with the shallow draft ( only 3 feet for the 47 foot vessel !!), and the economy of operation, and maintenance, and you have one fine cruising vessel. Perhaps you might even be considering one of their 74's after cutting your teeth on the 47. And I believe a used one might well hold a lot of its residual value in this future world of very high fuel cost that is just over the horizon.


So this is one of my top recommendations Mick

I'll go along if you want to go explore one more thoroughly in person. There were some other used ones there in Green Cove Springs, and the factory is not far away. I'd like to go on a factory tour myself

Cheers, Brian

PS:...this is not a fancy yacht, but rather one that more closely meets your quoted desires,

...I am the type of person that doesn't require/desire any of the extreme bells and whistles. I don't need exotic wood, or any extreme eye candy for that matter. Simple oak finish and modest cosmetics are fine with me. I feel my money is best spent in the mechanical aspect of a boat. I want reliability and function above anything else.

....text and photos over here if you're interested
New to Yachting; 13 Million to spend - - Page 6 - YachtForums.Com

 

[healhustler]

I just want to make sure no one is confused by those photos. The picture of the boat underway is a GH-37 the swim platform shown is one on a Great Harbour N series with flybridge because there is a ladder which accesses the fly bridge from the after deck...although all have the same swim platform.

Joe

Woops. Guess I shoulda mentioned that. Thanks for pointing that out.

I think I'll be reading this thread a few times more. For the first time that I can remember, there's actually enough frankness in a discussion to gain some insight into the thinking behind a small boat builder's product.

 

[Rockbottom]

Great Harbour

Thanks to all of you for making this a delightful experience. Lou and I have a combined total of over 75 years in the business and we stayed way clear of forums and posting because of the lack of even common courtesy found on some of the forums. I am speaking for myself here but I imagine Lou would agree that if most people would conduct themselves in an online forum in the same manner they would in face to face conversation it would be great. The reality is that we all can learn a bunch from each other and what a convenient way to do it.

I hope that if in the future any of you think Lou or I might have something to add to a thread that you will prod us to weigh in. Keep up the good work and thanks for the help with everything including trying to sell that 74!

Smooth Seas
Ken Fickett
President
Great Harbour Trawler,
Mirage Manufacturing Inc

 

[healhustler]

Ken & Lou...yes I guess you've run into some egos on boat forums, but you know...when you're building such an in-your-face, controversial design as the GH's, purists and really experienced boaters (like some on this site) have a darned good idea of what works out there in the water, and you two must have understood that there would be flack flying around about such a design from the beginning. Given an unlimited amount of cash to produce the most un-compromised boat design on the water, you'd probably do it and there'd be just as much controversy about the few compromises it has, if not a bit less controversy about the performance of its hull, which would then lead to more controversy over what imperfections were held in its perfected hull. I was just sitting here with my Admiral and appreciating the insight you added. I don't know if you'll get any sales out of it, but I'll be speaking to Eric this fall about a try-out charter on the river.

 

[nickr]

This thread has turned out to be one of the most productive & informative discussions so far on the web about Great Harbor Trawlers.
No doubt that the GH hull design has brought mixed opinions but lets not forget that when you push the envelope (design wise) you will always have mixed comments.
When I first saw the N37 I was intrigued from all aspects of the boat, however the hull is what got me thinking that they are actually onto something here.
After seeing the dry dock pics I was reassured that this boat can handle herself even if conditions get snotty.
It was great having input from Ken Fickett & Lou Codega and clearing up hull design fundamentals.

 

[sunchaser]

After seeing a GH 47 in Sitka two years ago I became convinced as to the mission and general utility of the vessel. But a few questions or possibly better said, a few realities remain:

For those who have the money to purchase a GH or similar cost vessel new, at least 50% (or much higher) think about - gasp - perception (thank you Walt). For the boat builders, opinions from real buyers trump notions from boat groupies like those of us on TF. For this reason SeaRays, Azimuts, and other sexy looking vessels sell like fresh hotcakes even though they depreciate like day old doughnuts.

No matter how well founded the stability calculations for the GH, the perception by some and reality for others is they are, well, ungainly. For me if I had a choice between a lightly used Fleming 55 and a new GH 47 the investment value and looks alone say go Fleming. Ditto a choice between a new fully equipped GH 47 vs a used Nordhavn 55/60, a KK 58 or an Offshore 57. Apparently the buyers with money agree.

None of this is a knock on Lou and group. They have built a very well thought out vessel with sound fundamentals for the intended purpose. Furthermore, they are still in business.

 

[Codger2]

For those who have the money to purchase a GH or similar cost vessel new, at least 50% (or much higher) think about - gasp - perception......

For the boat builders, opinions from real buyers trump notions from boat groupies like those of us on TF.

No matter how well founded the stability calculations for the GH, the perception by some and reality for others is they are, well, ungainly.
.

Well said and I couldn't agree more! Thank God, like women, we don't all want the same package.

 

[Joe Pica]

Good market observation Sunchaser, with regard to novice buyer's perception versus reality. These are great boats however this was an apples to oranges comparison neglecting the large difference in drafts of these vessels. The GH's only draft 3' , so offers great flexibility getting into anchorages and skinny water locations that would bar the other mentioned boats. Again, a boat is just a tool best defined by a brutally honest personal evaluation of where and how you intend to cruise within your pocket limit.

Joe

 

[Animal]

For me if I had a choice between a lightly used Fleming 55 and a new GH 47 the investment value and looks alone say go Fleming. Ditto a choice between a new fully equipped GH 47 vs a used Nordhavn 55/60, a KK 58 or an Offshore 57.

The GH47 may have a tough market to compete in, but there's a big difference between the GH47 market and the GH37/N37 market. If I had to chose between an N/GH37 and a late model, equally priced, 600+HP Grand Banks, I'd say the Great Harbour line is a far more economical and extremely spacious alternative for coastal cruising.

This has been a great thread - I've learned a lot. Thanks for everyone's inputs.

 

[healhustler]

The Animal has a very good point. The 37's, however similar in design, are a different class of boat if for nothing else, the price difference. Retired live-aboards might throw a mortgage on a 37'. On the other hand, the Flemmings and Krogens, etc. are boats to have a romance with. Sorry, but I'm not romantic about any GH. When one passes me by, the noises I make are a lot different, if you know what I mean. It's kinda like a beautiful, athletic beauty passing by vs. a big truck that could hold all my stuff. They're just not comparable and I think that's why the GH's are what they are. They are ungainly, for sure, but so is my boat. I hope the GH owners here continue to share things about the performance and characteristics of their GH investments.

 

[brian eiland]

Let's see.... conjecture and opinion based on no formal NA or PE education without factual data or actual experience cruising in the hull in question trumps all? I guess if you shout loud enough and often enough someone may believe you know what you are talking about regardless of facts. I doubt many of these self proclaimed pundits of naval architecture have even seen a Great Harbour hull out of the water let alone sea trialed one prior to condemning it's sea keeping ability. I will include some pictures to clear up some of the "conjectures". The GH hull is a very unique sophisticated, and complex design, not just a simple flat bottomed boat. I guess the "Webb Institute MIT NA/PE who designed the hull, the GH owners who have cruised 1000s of miles off shore, inshore, the Great Lakes, Canadian Maritimes, North Atlantic and the South Pacific are fantasizing how comfortable and capable their boats have seemed in all their travels.
I am stunned to realize that all my years of personal boating experience in many different hull forms (6yrs in a GH N-37) both power a sail is meaningless compared to forum opines.
I guess I need to stay in a Holiday Express.

Cheers

Joe
"Carolyn Ann" GH N-37

Interesting, ...some of the similarities of the Great Harbor hull shapes with those of the Florida Bay Coasters. I posted a few photos of the original FBC over here along with an interesting observation about some performance in a beam sea.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Florida Bay Coasters....any owners onboard

We poked into them, throwing spray, until we got into the Gulf Stream then turned south and took them on the beam for the next two hours. It was proof to use of how stiff she was in action. This bore out all of our calculations and the inclining test we'd done while still at the shipyard. After watching the Jeep vehicle rocking on its suspension, but never sliding on deck, I turned to watching her action as the waves heeled her. As the eight foot seas would approach, she would heel with the approach of each wave, but immediately start to right herself, heeling into the wave. She was effectively splitting the difference following the wave surface and trying to stay upright.

 

[beachbum29]

Guess I'm confused by your statement.

 

[AusCan]

I think I am following your line of thought, Brian.
The GH's and FBC's appear to have similar lines. Those comments about rolling into the swell are interesting as well. Something my boat definitely does not do.

My uneducated guess as to the reasoning for this, is the depth of the vertical sides on the hull shape of both the GH and FMC. A medium size swell would create force on the lower vertical section causing this lean into the swell, counteracting a boats tendency to sit perpendicular to the surface. This would reduce overall roll action.

My only concern would be, - if the swell is large and dangerous, comfort is not as important as stability. Would this shape give more stability or less? I am far from able to answer that question.

 

[brian eiland]

Guess I'm confused by your statement.

Does this explaination by the designer of the Great Harbor vessels help with the understanding?
About Great Harbor Trawlers : Design Discussions

 

[jacksatease]

N37

I'm a boating enthusiast from Campbell River, BC, Canada, and am very interested in the N37.
Are you happy with the Yanmars? Is the boat well insulated, and would it be suitable for traveling up the Inside Passage to Alaska?
I am planning on purchasing a boat soon, and although we have some excellent boat builders here in BC, none that can offer a vessel as well equipped at the price they show on the Mirage Mfg. website, altho the prices are from a few years back.

 

[Joe Pica]

I suggest that you contact Mirage directly to answer your question. It is my opinion that this boat N-37 is absolutely capable of cruising that are. Price etc should be addressed to the builder Ken Ficket owner of Mirage Mfg Co that builds these.

 

[cardude01]

Wonder how bad the wind would push around a GH37 when trying to dock ? Will two small engines and a thruster overcome a 20 knot wind when trying to dock?

There is a local GH37 I've looked at and it sure is roomy, but a little odd looking.

I suggest that you contact Mirage directly to answer your question. It is my opinion that this boat N-37 is absolutely capable of cruising that are. Price etc should be addressed to the builder Ken Ficket owner of Mirage Mfg Co that builds these.

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler

 

[healhustler]

I've only heard the regular speculation about that. I've given up trying to get aboard the Great Harbor web site to ask such questions. Frankly, I haven't had much success in learning about the handling of any boat I've been interested in. The profile of the GH series would say it probably collects its share of the wind. The N-series has less of a profile and is probably better. One of our most faithful Krogen owners traded his Krogen 39" and bought an N-47. I can't wait for him to get back so I can finally get some first hand info on the performance of the N-series.

 

[cardude01]

I've only heard the regular speculation about that. I've given up trying to get aboard the Great Harbor web site to ask such questions. Frankly, I haven't had much success in learning about the handling of any boat I've been interested in. The profile of the GH series would say it probably collects its share of the wind. The N-series has less of a profile and is probably better. One of our most faithful Krogen owners traded his Krogen 39" and bought an N-47. I can't wait for him to get back so I can finally get some first hand info on the performance of the N-series.

I've got a GH37 here fairly local I want to go look at. I chartered an N37 two years ago and liked the room and handling. The engine room on that N37 was incredible. Don't know if the GH37 is as big.

The wife and I looked at a GH37 but she thought it was too goofy looking at the time. I want to take another hard look and see if I get over the odd factor.

I've given up on my initial "blue water" boat idea and I'm now focusing on coastal boats that will also do well in the Bahamas.

Are you considering a GH37 or an N37?