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Old 05-24-2018, 08:43 AM   #81
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Agreed but I would love my fuel expense to be a much higher % of my annual cost
Mo Miles Traveled at Mo Throttle Applied = Mo Money for Fuel $$$$ Expense!

You can raise the %age... if desired!!
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:19 PM   #82
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Art wrote;
“Therefore... unless any of us are doing poorly financially and need relief from our boat's fuel expense... the cost of fuel is usually a minor piece of "boat dollars" annually spent.”

If it’s so minor why all the obsession about it?
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:25 PM   #83
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Simi 60 wrote;
“Hour meter and liters/gallons in tank is the very definition of reality.”

Sure but it’s far from derived at 100% cruising speed. I’ll bet most would be shocked to learn how many hours are accumulating on the hour meter that are at running speeds and loads very far from cruising loads and speeds.


dhays wrote;
“The electronic engine tells me exactly how many gph I am burning at any given time.”

If you mean during any period of time that can be taken to the bank if the engine speed/boat speed is never changed during the period.

But most of us don’t have such sophisticated equipment. And of course the “equipment” is subject to error.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:33 PM   #84
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So.....this may be a little off topic.....but.....
If you were repowering a boat with a hull speed of...say 9 knots.....and it took ( random guess here) 100 horsepower to do that speed....would the ideal be to pick an engine a little greater than 100 hp to compensate for headwind...current....bottom growth and so on ? I just have such a hard time fathoming ( did you see what I did there ? ) big boats with small engines. I had a 16 foot, 500 pound boat that had a 25 horse engine....I have a 17 foot boat that has a 140 hp engine.....and some of you guys have serious boats with less hp than my little bowrider.....Its hard to wrap my head around this concept. I know displacement boats are a different animal than planing boats....but .....not to single anyone out...but scrolling back I see Mark has a 14 ton boat with an 80hp engine. it blows my mind....sorry for the off topic rant.
Good post. Case in point, the Kadey Krogen Manatee of which 99 were built from 1984 to 1991. Empty, 12 tons, 34 ft waterline. Original engine for the first dozen or so examples (including Skipper Bob’s) were Perkins 50’s (and they are still around) which would push the boat to it’s hull speed. Add a big alternator, air compressor or maybe a hydraulic accessory of some kind and there was no surplus to draw from. Next came the Volvo TAMD series 90HP and subsequent 100 and 110 HP versions. The 90’s were more than adequate in any situation and still are unless they get tired. I’ve seen the Manatees repowered with as much as a 160 Volvo, but I can tell you that the only thing anything over 100 HP does with a 22 x 13 prop is dig a bigger hole. My boat has also been repowered with a 140 Yanmar. I can’t think of a moment wherethe extra HP was useful or evident, save for perhaps dunking the swim platform. Another friend of mine just repowered his boat with the same Yanmar I have, but his Volvo 90 was really tired and he also added some pneumatic fin stabilizers, requiring a big air compressor. The fins also added a half-knot drag at cruising speed, and his plan includes adding a huge alternator, so it may have been a useful upgrade for his particular application, but otherwise in the great majority of these vessels, more than 90 HP is a waste.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:56 PM   #85
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I never go by hours. I go by KM traveled vs. gallons used. I don't worry about current or wind as I just assume that, unless I am very unlucky, it will all even out
Me too. I've found that with my typical use and (low) speed that I use a pretty consistent 1 litre per NM including generator use, about 4 mpg. That's sufficient information for me to plan fuel stops and budget. I don't really get the whole gph fixation. I guess if you're just out cruising around for the day it might be meaningful, but for traveling doesn't it boil down to how far you can go on a tank of fuel, or how much fuel a voyage will take?
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:40 PM   #86
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I too go by NM traveled vs gallons gone via dipstick. My Furuno 1650 (??) old bottom machine/backup gps plotter if you toggle through the plotter screens there is one that has an odometer. Very handy when doing burn calcs.

If you use the hourmeter, (which I do log each fuel check and fuel load), it does not take into account the minimal fuel burned (yet hours logged) while idling around an anchorage or dockage or waiting for a bridge. Hourmeter use will skew your gph downward from reality.

But after each trip, I calc the nmpg and gph and it all ends up real consistent, so the numbers are good enough for further trip planning.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:30 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Mo Miles Traveled at Mo Throttle Applied = Mo Money for Fuel $$$$ Expense!

You can raise the %age... if desired!!
No I do not raise the throttle just need more time cruising
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:05 PM   #88
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My twin Lehman 120hp Burnt .81galls per NM @61/2-7 kts depending on sea conditions
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:43 PM   #89
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Art wrote;
“Therefore... unless any of us are doing poorly financially and need relief from our boat's fuel expense... the cost of fuel is usually a minor piece of "boat dollars" annually spent.”

If it’s so minor why all the obsession about it?
X2

Obviously someone's never run a 35'+ boat at planing speeds.

45 GPH is not minor.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:58 PM   #90
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X2

Obviously someone's never run a 35'+ boat at planing speeds.

45 GPH is not minor.
Wifey B: 37 knots, 0.66 nmpg, 56 gph.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:02 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Art wrote;
“Therefore... unless any of us are doing poorly financially and need relief from our boat's fuel expense... the cost of fuel is usually a minor piece of "boat dollars" annually spent.”

If it’s so minor why all the obsession about it?
Eric

Basically that question is the gist of my post. Seeing as in reality, for most boaters, fuel is miner a cost compared to many other costly items when they are added together. So, I too ask... why all the obsession regarding mileage.

Is it just for something to speak about; to discuss with few reasons actually why... because... your boat is gonna cost what it will for most of its expenses, including fuel. Unless many thousands $$$ are spent to repower. Even then, just figure that cost in order to get just a little bit better mileage.

On the other hand: For some boaters fuel is a big portion of overall expense... those boaters cruise up to or sometimes well over 1000 + hours annually.

For the majority who place 100 to 200 hours under power annually... let's do a few figures.

100 hrs power at 5 gallons per hour = 500 gallons x $4 per gallon = $2000

200 hours at same stats = $4000 annual fuel cost

Docking at some mariners is well over $5000. Annual Insurance can easily reach $2000. Repairs and maintenance can quickly get into the $4000 range. Adding that up = $11,000 And, you've had no fun yet!

Now, when you spend a few grand on fuel... boating fun becomes reality!

Don't be afraid to spend some bucks on fuel; its the expense that provides fun. If necessary try cutting down on other expenses.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:31 PM   #92
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Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you should waste it. If the difference between 8 knots and 9 knots raises your fuel cost by 30%, and you're in no hurry to get there....it makes sense to know when the costs starts to rise faster than the speed. Gaining knowledge is never a bad thing, nor is understanding your boat better.

Frankly it seems a little snooty to belittle someone's quest for reducing costs. You probably turn off the lights before you leave the house for the day, and turn your thermostat down if you leave for a week. Heck, you could probably afford to just leave the water running between showers, but I bet you don't. Heating cost is a small percentage of home ownership costs, but you probably close the windows in the winter.

I'm really dissapointed in the direction this thread has taken.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:17 AM   #93
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Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you should waste it. If the difference between 8 knots and 9 knots raises your fuel cost by 30%, and you're in no hurry to get there....it makes sense to know when the costs starts to rise faster than the speed. Gaining knowledge is never a bad thing, nor is understanding your boat better.

Frankly it seems a little snooty to belittle someone's quest for reducing costs. You probably turn off the lights before you leave the house for the day, and turn your thermostat down if you leave for a week. Heck, you could probably afford to just leave the water running between showers, but I bet you don't. Heating cost is a small percentage of home ownership costs, but you probably close the windows in the winter.

I'm really dissapointed in the direction this thread has taken.
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:34 AM   #94
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Bu, But, BUT... Point I'm trying to make is that fuel cost when kept to a reasonable level is not all that big piece of the "pleasure boating" pie. And, it is the "action-taking" piece that quite affordably can get you out onto the water; away from dock! Remember I mentioned 5 gph; not 45 gph.


Then again maybe the darts being throwen are not meant to stick in my forhead? Guilty conscience I guess - LOL There's a first time for everything!!
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:22 AM   #95
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When the engine is running and you are on the way to a destination, fuel costs are a big part of that day's expense.

We are prepping for an about 2000nm round trip in a couple weeks. We will likely burn about 1000gal of diesel, so about $3-4000 in cost. Not insignificant.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:07 AM   #96
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My family had a boat about 36ft long with two Allison airplane engines. The cost of fuel was not a consideration. You can look it up on the internet, Miss Pepsi.
This was back in the days of "racing is a gentleman's sport." No prize money, just a name on the cup and bragging rights.
The point is, choose your boat carefully.
You want distance, control your speed.
You want to be first across the line, MPG be daymned. WINK
Same with your car. Anyone who buys a Rolls Royce is not worried about MPG.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:45 AM   #97
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My family had a boat about 36ft long with two Allison airplane engines. The cost of fuel was not a consideration. You can look it up on the internet, Miss Pepsi.
This was back in the days of "racing is a gentleman's sport." No prize money, just a name on the cup and bragging rights.
The point is, choose your boat carefully.
You want distance, control your speed.
You want to be first across the line, MPG be daymned. WINK
Same with your car. Anyone who buys a Rolls Royce is not worried about MPG.
WOW - Now you're talking GPM, not GPH!


Howard Arneson locally uses aircraft jet engines in his speed boats [125 mph] for testing his Arneson surface-outdrives. The boats are listed with FAA and have pitot tubes for mph. Howard invented the "pool sweep" that cleans the bottom of nearly all pools in the U.S. by just attaching water pressure.

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Old 05-25-2018, 10:13 AM   #98
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Circling back for a moment to the OP. Three points made I believe. One, he likely can reduce consumption of fuel through reducing his speed. Two, fuel for some is a very significant cost and for others isn't. Three, if a $500 expense is enough to run his partner out of boat ownership, there needs to be a serious discussion before considering buying any boat as during the life of boat ownership there will be expenses equal to and in excess of that amount and unlike the fuel, they will be unexpected. Boating can be done at a modest cost but significant costs can and will arise at various points along the way.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:20 AM   #99
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Circling back for a moment to the OP. Three points made I believe. One, he likely can reduce consumption of fuel through reducing his speed. Two, fuel for some is a very significant cost and for others isn't. Three, if a $500 expense is enough to run his partner out of boat ownership, there needs to be a serious discussion before considering buying any boat as during the life of boat ownership there will be expenses equal to and in excess of that amount and unlike the fuel, they will be unexpected. Boating can be done at a modest cost but significant costs can and will arise at various points along the way.
Keep the boat.
Get a different partner.
Enjoy
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:24 AM   #100
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Keep the boat.
Get a different partner.
Enjoy
I wouldn't say that, just communicate. There should have been anticipation of fuel costs before buying the boat. The questions asked now should have been pre-purchase questions. Now, what's done is done, but need to use the lessons learned.
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