Going through Norfolk

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jay b

jay b

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
15
Location
United States
Vessel Name
Far Niente
Vessel Make
Mainship Pilot 30
We are hoping to take our boat from the Mouth of the Potomac down the Bay to Norfolk and up the James river to Richmond. I have not been in this part of the Chesapeake before and am concerned about heavier boat and Naval traffic. Any pointers or cautions to suggest, places to stop, radio monitoring, etc.
Thanks!
 
Norfolk/Hampton Roads really isn't that bad ,even though is is a huge ,busy harbor. Most of the time, we stay outside of the actual channel & that keeps a lot of the worry factor down. Keep your radio on 16 AND 13. 13 is where the traffic talks & don't hesitate to ask them for help if you're unsure of a situation. An AIS helps too, but I keep our alarm off in that area or it would never shut up! Enjoy the scenery & be proud that all of those gray boats ,ships, subs, planes & choppers are on your side!
 
As Boomerang notes, stay just outside of the channel markers, there is plenty of water, and you will be out of everyone's way. The traffic is sometimes dense, but there is a lot of room to avoid it.

David
 
Once you start up the James, pay attention to the markers and your chart. Keep plenty of distance between you and any Naval vessels.
 
Did it both ways a few years ago. No issues whatsoever.

There is plenty of water all the way across and they are big enough you can see them easily!
 
Try not to get caught on the anchor chains of those big gray boats. WINK

Took my N46 with 6ft draft, no problem.
 
bnoft said:
Once you start up the James, pay attention to the markers and your chart. Keep plenty of distance between you and any Naval vessels.
Click to expand...
... else the security boats with mounted .30 and .50 machine guns come over to say hay.;)
Seriously, book a night or two in the Waterfront Marina and walk to the USS Wisconsin/Nauticus museum.
 
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Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine. That being said, the subs are VERY difficult to see and often have a wicked wake. If you see a few USCG ribs or equivalent running slowly in the channel, they typically lead and follow the subs. The subs tower is barely visible and the rudder even smaller. And by chance, it's a boomer as opposed to an attack boat, you won't believe the distance between the sail and the tail.

Have fun.
 
Jeff Lebowski said:
Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine. That being said, the subs are VERY difficult to see and often have a wicked wake. If you see a few USCG ribs or equivalent running slowly in the channel, they typically lead and follow the subs. The subs tower is barely visible and the rudder even smaller. And by chance, it's a boomer as opposed to an attack boat, you won't believe the distance between the sail and the tail.

Have fun.
Click to expand...

Interesting. We've traversed New London, Norfolk and Kings Bay a few times and the subs were always at the surface fully visible and heavily escorted.
 
If you go through on a weekend, especially a Sunday, you are extremely unlikely to encounter US Navy vessels underway around Norfolk. Unlike when I was in the Navy, ALL US Naval vessels underway in harbors and bays have short range weapons manned and ready. The officer-of-the deck on passing Navy ships will have you under the watchful eye of a gun crew, but no weapon will be pointed at you unless you disobey the rules which are:

The basic guidelines are as follows:

Vessels within 500 yards of a U.S. naval vessel must operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course and proceed as directed by the official patrol.

Recreational and commercial vessels are not allowed within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel, unless authorized by the official patrol.

Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel must contact the official patrol on VHF-FM channel 16. The official patrol may permit vessels that can operate safely only in a navigable channel to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules.

Commercial vessels anchored in a designated anchorage area may be permitted to remain at anchor within 100 yards of passing naval vessels.

Mariners who violate a Naval Vessel Protection Zone will be perceived as a threat, and will face a quick, determined, and severe response. Violators are subject to arrest, prosecution, and, if convicted, imprisonment for up to six years and a fine of up to $250,000.

The subs, as mentioned, are escorted by gray US Navy escort boats flashing blue lights, but the other ships are not, at least not last March when I went through. There may be a USCG vessel leading the sub too. You will have no trouble with them as long as you do not turn toward them or increase speed. Minding your own business outside the marked channel, as recommended before, is going to see you through just fine.

There are no other areas of particular note to be concerned about, and your normal safe navigation practices with a chartplotter will be sufficient just as anywhere else you may go. As said before, enjoy the diversity of the area and DO NOT worry.
 
If not going into Norfolk and just hugging Newport News and going up the James, not much other than a very limited time will you deal with Navy Norfolk.
 
"Unlike when I was in the Navy, ALL US Naval vessels underway in harbors and bays have short range weapons manned and ready."

Rich, about ten years ago, I had the thrill and pleasure of boarding my son's frigate for a three-day Tiger Cruise from Puerta Vallarta to home port San Diego. At the time he was a second class petty officer (Cryptologic Technician Technical). His duty entering or leaving a port was to man a .50 caliber on the top deck (O2?). I was right beside him leaving Puerta Vallarta and entering San Diego Bay. It was very sobering watching your son who, only a few short years ago was a nerdy high school kid, rack a belt of ammo into the gun and chamber a live round. The older guy in the picture is my brother.

I played poker in the enlisted mess after the evening meal. Also got to see the CWIS and 75mm deck fired up close, about twenty rounds. I took the picture shown. This was not a telephoto picture. I was that close when the gun was being fired. Wow!
rgano said:
If you go through on a weekend, especially a Sunday, you are extremely unlikely to encounter US Navy vessels underway around Norfolk. Unlike when I was in the Navy, ALL US Naval vessels underway in harbors and bays have short range weapons manned and ready. The officer-of-the deck on passing Navy ships will have you under the watchful eye of a gun crew, but no weapon will be pointed at you unless you disobey the rules which are:

The basic guidelines are as follows:

Vessels within 500 yards of a U.S. naval vessel must operate at the minimum speed necessary to maintain a safe course and proceed as directed by the official patrol.

Recreational and commercial vessels are not allowed within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel, unless authorized by the official patrol.

Vessels requesting to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel must contact the official patrol on VHF-FM channel 16. The official patrol may permit vessels that can operate safely only in a navigable channel to pass within 100 yards of a U.S. naval vessel in order to ensure a safe passage in accordance with the Navigation Rules.

Commercial vessels anchored in a designated anchorage area may be permitted to remain at anchor within 100 yards of passing naval vessels.

Mariners who violate a Naval Vessel Protection Zone will be perceived as a threat, and will face a quick, determined, and severe response. Violators are subject to arrest, prosecution, and, if convicted, imprisonment for up to six years and a fine of up to $250,000.

The subs, as mentioned, are escorted by gray US Navy escort boats flashing blue lights, but the other ships are not, at least not last March when I went through. There may be a USCG vessel leading the sub too. You will have no trouble with them as long as you do not turn toward them or increase speed. Minding your own business outside the marked channel, as recommended before, is going to see you through just fine.

There are no other areas of particular note to be concerned about, and your normal safe navigation practices with a chartplotter will be sufficient just as anywhere else you may go. As said before, enjoy the diversity of the area and DO NOT worry.
Click to expand...
Jerry%2C%20Jack%20O3%201%20PV.jpegThree-Inch%20Gun%20FFG%2038.jpeg
 
rango, ah yup, ".... just a few short years ago."
Everyone in the navy is so very young.
Senior officers might be in their mid 30s
 
I don't know about the officer ranks but aren't most recruits still just out of high school. My son made Chief Petty Officer after eleven years in. That's comparatively a bit young so perhaps you have a point. But advancement is dependent upon vacancies in rate. Choose your rate, choose your fate.
OldDan1943 said:
rango, ah yup, ".... just a few short years ago."
Everyone in the navy is so very young.
Senior officers might be in their mid 30s
Click to expand...
 
I used to keep my boat at Rocket's Landing in RVA and am now on the Little Wicomico at the mouth of the Potomac. So I've made that trip a number of times in both directions. It's a wonderful trip and I don't think you'll have any issues.

When leaving the Bay and entering Hampton Roads and the Elizabeth River, I try to stay outside (or at least the very edge) of the shipping channel. I've been pushed out of the channel by BGB's (Big Grey Boats) on a couple occasions. But in your case, you will know they are moving by radio calls and you can either speed up or slow down so you aren't near them when passing the main chokepoint around FT Monroe.

My favorite stops are (or were before COVID) in Hampton, where there are some great things in walking distance of the city pier, and anchoring on the Chickahominy River (it's like going back in time). You will have a great trip, enjoy it.

Feel free to PM if you have any specific questions.
 
Regarding transit of Norfolk, AIS is very handy. Tugs have hailed me by name to make sure I don’t cut in front of them.

Also if you are disturbed by wakes, north bound deliveries have to go slow in the ICW and the narrow parts of the Elizabeth River. When the River opens up, so do they.
 
It is more than just the Navy Base area. Lots of commercial shipyards in the area that are building and/or repairing Navy vessels.

Monitor the radio.

Don't get too close to shore (i.e. the facilities along the shore). Most have Navy or private security boats that become annoyed if you get too close the shore side facilities (shipyards, drydocks) or linger near one.

Do not make it obvious that you are taking lots of photos (i.e. no telephoto lenses) or you might get a visit from one of the Navy boats.

If you are on the Elizabeth River, stay IN the channel till you are out of the shipyard areas.

Waterside Marina is a nice stop on the waterfront right in downtown Norfolk.

FWIW, the Chickahominy River about 45 miles up the James River from the Hampton Roads tunnel. It is a nice area though.
 
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Or .....like I do...going into/coming from the Elizabeth River (which you really don't have to to go up the James River unless nothbound)....


I stay outside the channel to the west so I avoid all the Navy issues and tug/usual traffic....plenty of water.


If coming down the bay, you can somewhat hug the western shore past Mobjack Bay headed towards Hampton (be aware the was/in a shooting range with a danger zone nearing the turn into Hampton Roads.... in dozens of passes it's never been active). Staying close to shore, there is hardly any commercial traffic except crabbers and some smaller fishermen. Does get busier when turning in Hampton Roads towards the James River.
 
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jay b said:
We are hoping to take our boat from the Mouth of the Potomac down the Bay to Norfolk and up the James river to Richmond. I have not been in this part of the Chesapeake before and am concerned about heavier boat and Naval traffic. Any pointers or cautions to suggest, places to stop, radio monitoring, etc.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Not too heavy & mostly big commercial traffic. It does get a bit confusing at night as you approach the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel, as you think you’re right up on it, but the thing is huge & you’ve plenty of room. Should weather turn or you need an overnight ashore, Rebel Marina at Wiloby Spit is a nice lil’ respite- they even have a truck you can borrow to go the the Market, etc. There is also an Anchorage there- not the best, but will do.
 
James River

I travel Norfolk to Richmond often. On the James there isn't a fuel dock from Norfolk up to Chickahominy. There are docks off the river but they are a ways up the tributaries; Smithfield (Pagan River) is it. As you go up river there will be Newport News Marina (just dockage), Kingsmill Marina (just dockage), Two Rivers CC (I believe they have fuel). It is a clear deep water ride from Hampton Roads through James River Bridge to Richmond but I suggest you stay in the deep water channel after the bridge if this is your 1st time. There is a STBD bend by Ft Eustis and if you cut the corner you get in very shallow water fast. Past Kingsmill the deep water channel gets very little traffic with lots of bends and as you get to Richmond its much tighter. Jordan Point Marina has fuel (or it did last time I passed there). From Jordan Bridge to Richmond watch for semi submerged debris/trees as it can get cranky up there if you just go blasting thru. Norfolk to Richmond is a beautiful ride with minimal traffic and if you get a nice calm day the river will be flat as glass. FOADIAC
 
All good advice which is summed up by "stay out of the way of the big guys and gray ones." Couple things. Commercial vessels inbound from sea in Thimble Shoals channel do so at at least 10 knots so they can come up on you pretty quickly even if they look a ways off. Rule of thumb we use (and we in the area) is if I can see them I need to pay attention. AIS helps with avoidance. And remember, the pilot's visibility from the bridge of a container ship or coal ship is very, very limited! As to the Navy big guys, they do not strictly comply with the Naval Vessel Protection Zone limits of within 500 yds operate at "minimum speed", and do not stray within 100 yds. They uniformly will warn you to stay at least 500 yds away (which is technically allowed as it is the "direction" of the patrol commander). And they will really get strict with submarines and aircraft carriers. Not really a big deal as others have mentioned there is plenty of water to get out of the way. Listen on 16 and 13 and they give plenty of warning. Some days there's a lot of commercial traffic, other days none. Frankly, most days it's the commercial fishing vessels and recreational vessels that pose the bigger challenge!
 
Follow the small boat channel toward the western side of the bay after passing the York River....it’s easy peasy. Past Thimble Shoals lighthouse and then through the mouth of the James River by Ft. Monroe.....little bit of current here, but no problem with depth...50’ of water.

Continue across Hampton Roads and toward the Monitor/Merrimack bridge tunnel. Off to port side will be the entrance to the Elizabeth River and the Norfolk Naval Base, biggest naval base in the world. Between here and the Middle Ground lighthouse you are traversing the same waters plied by the ironclads almost 170 years ago. Passing over the M&M bridge tunnel you make a slight turn to starboard and pass by the Newport News shipyard, home of America’s aircraft carriers. Then under the James River bridge and you are on your way up the James.

Follow the good advise given by those above and you should have no problem. Only thing that might be a bit out of the ordinary is that construction has started
on new tunnels right at the mouth of Hampton Roads and the bay. Watch for construction barges, workboats, etc. here. It’s listed in the Notice to Mariners...
 
Willoughby Bay is a great anchorage to watch helicopters!
 
I am in the James near Jamestown. Do not go into Hampton Roads after dark unless you are a good navigator- too many lights. Once you get past the James River Bridge not much traffic- lots of shoals though, that was a big oyster area. Stay away from the Surry nuclear plant lots of security, watch out for dredging, stay near the channel, lots of really long unmarked derelict piers. Good restaurant up Grays creek and a marina with minimal service and high prices. Lots of shoals in mouth of creek.
 
Norfolk

Waterside Marina in Norfolk is a good place to stop for the night. Been there twice and like it a lot. Can do take-out at restaurants within short walking distance and great sightseeing close by. (no fuel there).


https://imgur.com/a/k4x3cs6
 
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Came down the Chesapeake heading to NC a few years ago - misty drizzle, visibility deteriorating. We did a great job of dodging the big gray boats - a helicopter/fighter carrier appeared bow on through the mist making a seaward turn over the Hampton Roads tunnel, plus lots of Coast Guard boats seemed to be checking us out. A few hundred yards to the west of us was an overtaking tug/barge. But, we were surprised in this soupy weather to find a fleet of small - 16'? - sailboats very close to the Thimble Shoals light apparently racing - chase boat standing by, between us and the tug/barge, and it looked like a bunch of kids manning the sailboats. So, my 2 cents: Be on lookout for smaller boats, too!

It's an impressive site to run the length of Norfolk Harbor, and having a lookout posted is essential. Oh....there was a freighter on fire at the mouth of the James, a hovercraft had just buzzed by with Marines arrayed with rifles in hand, we passed 3 nuke carriers, etc. There are so many interesting distractions that it takes a some extra focus to keep eyes on the water on all points.

Last item. In the 1970s I was invited to help a friend deliver his brand new C&C 36 from Yorktown to Oriental NC - fabulous trip - 5 guys and a new, fast sailboat! But, in these days before GPS we were dead reckoning mark to mark past Thimble Shoal motoring down the harbor, with a guy on the bow charged with spotting the next mark, traffic, etc., against a cluttered background. He had us on a compass/chart affirmed heading and then called back to come up 5 degrees. The helmsman complied. Again, he called to come up 5 degrees. OK. On the third request someone with perhaps better eyesight went forward - what in the distance on this overcast blustery March day the first lookout thought was a daymark at great distance was in fact the conning tower ("sail" among submariners) of a nuclear submarine underway south!

Try hard to not do that......
 
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