Getting off Face dock with wind

[Steve1.0]

And hold my beer!

 

[rslifkin]

Like this?

Pretty much, just a lot more gently!

 

[AZ2Loop]

Not in this case, but post your solution please. Always like to have another idea in the back pocket.

OK, here goes. Without the piling near your bow between you and the boat sharing your slip to your port, it has no application in the scenario you presented. But, if you did have the piling between your bow and that other boat, here is the technique.

You run a line from your port mid-ship cleat (or aft of mid-ship) around the piling near your bow on the port side, and back to your mid-ship cleat. Ideally you have a 1st mate to shorten the line as your mid-ship cleat aligns with the piling when you begin moving. As long as you can get to the cleat from your helm, though, it can also be done solo. Picture the piling as the center of a circle, and your boat on the outline of the circle. The length of the line defines the radius of the circle. Your boat is drawing the circle. As you pull forward out of the slip turning to port (in this scenario), the line (think radius) does 2 things. It holds your boat to port, keeping you off the dock finger on your starboard side, and it assists with your turn to port. As you turn, completing less than 1/4 of the circle, you release the line from the cleat, pull the line in, and your boat is nearly parallel with the fairway making for an easy departure from there.

Our marina has a strong cross current. Fortunately, we have those pilings at the end of the slips. I have seen this "circle technique" work beautifully to overcome the cross current. I love seeing this technique used. It makes a casual departure out of what would be a stressful one, overcoming the cross current or crosswind.

Without the piling, I realize it will not apply in your case. Still a nice move to have in mind when it can be used.

 

[OldDan1943]

No piling? Use a dock side cleat in the same manner as you would use a piling.

It is nice to know how to get off a face dock but realize, based upon my observation, only the rice folks with big, long boats get to use the face dock and that's not me.

 

[AZ2Loop]

No piling? Use a dock side cleat in the same manner as you would use a piling.

It is nice to know how to get off a face dock but realize, based upon my observation, only the rice folks with big, long boats get to use the face dock and that's not me.

Oddly enough, Sevee's situation does not actually involve a face dock. It's just a double wide slip with a finger on one side and a boat on the other. The technique I described above would have zero application on a face dock either. Some of the other suggestions in the thread would, but definitely not the one I offered.


I hear you though, OldDan, face docks are usually for bigger vessels than ours.

 

[psneeld]

Face docks are prevalent in many areas of the East Coast ICW and as a lowly 40 footer have spent plenty of nights on them.

Especially in canals and narrow waterways...sometimes face docks are the only type of dock offered.

 

[rslifkin]

Face docks are prevalent in many areas of the East Coast ICW and as a lowly 40 footer have spent plenty of nights on them.

Especially in canals and narrow waterways...sometimes face docks are the only type of dock offered.

Definitely depends on location. And some places put transients on face docks regardless of size, as it's just a game of boats vs available space rather than finding the right size slip, etc.

 

[Yachtman]

That's right. Diagram attached.
I'm tied to the dock in Position A
What I did was release all the lines, manually push off and was able to get a few feet forward at a time. When I got to position B, half way out, the wind started to take the bow, so I put the port engine in reverse, starboard forward. That cleared the dock by a foot or so, then both in forward as I headed out the boat continued to pivot with the bow going down wind, but I cleared the dock and once clear it was easy to maneuver.



I'd just like to clean it up a bit. And if there were a big boat on the next pier down wind of me, sticking out a bit, it would have been a bit more scary.


====
And, FWIW in response to comments:


Couldn't go back at all. Concrete wall, but shallow the first 10 feet out with oysters.


Have tried the following: With a big fender at the aft side against the dock, put a line on the closest boat cleat and tie to a piling to swing the bow out. Problem is the swim platform hits the pilings, at a point where there are nasty barnicles. But "could" work in the right circumstance.


Normally, I have thrusters, not this time.


Appreciate the thoughts

Why not just steer your way out?

 

[Peter B]

Why not just steer your way out?

Because he is describing a situation where higher wind than usual is holding him to his starboard tie dock-face. To steer out he'd have to use quite a bit of port helm, which would press the boat even harder against said dock.

Actually, without there being something to port to tie a slip-line to, as described in the post just above, he did about as good as it's possible to do, and I doubt there is any way to try and make the technique he used look any more 'salty'. I suggest you go back to the OP's original post which you copied, and re-read it more carefully, and in the context of his diagrams supplied here...https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/getting-off-face-dock-wind-61661-2.html#22
to see what I mean.

 

[Seevee]

Quoted by SeeVee,"
The boat is stern in, side tie to starboard. Typically I can shove it off (at least the bow) and put the starboard engine in idle forward, and the port in idle reverse and it will twist the boat just enough to head straight out."


With the engines (gears) turning as you say, some boats will go sideways if you put the rudders hard over to stb. and varying amounts of throttle so no forward motion is gained.

My 46 with the keel will not, but that same combo will push the stern out. In combination with a fwd spring off the stern (ready to release) you may get the clearance needed to proceed.

Haven't tried that sideways walk, but will. And with light or no wind, it's easy peasy. I can twist the boat a bit, but at the risk of the swim platform hitting the pilings, and right where the barnacles form. Sometimes I can place the boat so the swim platform will go under the dock a bit while holding the stern off with a fender ball.



Just for clarification, I misspoke when I said side tie. Should have said starboard tie, where there's only 1 side to tie off to.



Now, with bow in, backing out with a wind is quite easy (single or twin). It's just the stern in and forward out that I'm having trouble with.

 

[rslifkin]

In our home slip, we're backed in. Tied to one side, although we do have a center piling at the outer end between the 2 boats. Generally, if there's a significant crosswind while departing, we'll push or pull the bow towards the up-wind side of the available space right before we depart (admiral is on the bow to do this while I drop the last spring and stern lines before returning to the helm). Depending on the wind I may push the stern off the dock a bit or pull it closer as well. Then it's just a matter of adjusting speed and which engine goes into gear first (for prop walk) to make a straight shot out of the slip.



If the wind is so strong that we can't get out of the slip without hitting the bow, it's probably too strong for us to have any desire to go out anyway.

 

[Seevee]

In our home slip, we're backed in. Tied to one side, although we do have a center piling at the outer end between the 2 boats. Generally, if there's a significant crosswind while departing, we'll push or pull the bow towards the up-wind side of the available space right before we depart (admiral is on the bow to do this while I drop the last spring and stern lines before returning to the helm). Depending on the wind I may push the stern off the dock a bit or pull it closer as well. Then it's just a matter of adjusting speed and which engine goes into gear first (for prop walk) to make a straight shot out of the slip.



If the wind is so strong that we can't get out of the slip without hitting the bow, it's probably too strong for us to have any desire to go out anyway.

And, yes, strong winds can be an issue for launching. However, I'm in an unusual spot where if I can get the boat out I can get it back in. Generally don't go out over 30 knot wind, but could easily get back in to my secluded spot.

 

[LovetoBoat]

So I have been watching the thread - where I am located I find face docks on a fuel dock as well as a waterfront restaurant - Coinjock comes to mind.

On the face docks I occasionally find pilings but mostly on floating docks I only cleats.

 

[AlanT]

Now, with bow in, backing out with a wind is quite easy (single or twin). It's just the stern in and forward out that I'm having trouble with.

Sounds like that is the solution then!
~A

 

[koliver]

Sounds like that is the solution then!
~A

My boat has twins, no thrusters. My shelter fits only my boat, so I tie to both sides. Coming in and departing are simple when heading in, but in a cross wind and/or cross current, nearly impossible when backing in/heading out. Simple reason, as soon as the controlled end of the boat (where both propellers and rudders are) is trapped by the side docks, there is no way to control the opposite end, so the current/wind will always have its way with the bow. There is nothing that can be done about it, due to trapping the controls between the finger docks on both sides. Backing out into a cross current/wind has never been at all difficult. If the forces against the side push one way, the prop walk and/or application of selective forward power and rudder will always be enough to correct and get the boat into or out of the shelter without touching anything.

I suggest you always head in/back out, then you will have no issues. If you find you must back in, you need to consider a thruster, some way to control the bow when your props/rudders are trapped.

 

[EngNate]

A twin engine boat can usually be walked sideways, some boats cooperate better than others. Rudders hard over opposite the way you want to go, engine on the dock side ahead, outside one astern, work the throttle on the outside one to keep from moving forward too much and wiggle it out. Of course there's a limit to how much wind you can work against. If you have a good bow thruster swing the stern out with engines and the bow with the thruster.

 

[captmikem]

If you are twin screw with enough rudder area, you should practice moving your boat sideways. Say you want to move your boat to port, you come ahead on your port engine and astern on your stb engine while at the same time you are hard port with your rudders. It takes more throttle than you might think, and you will have to adjust your throttles to keep from moving ahead or astern, and you may need to adjust your rudders slightly. Opposite of the above if you want to move your boat to stb.

It will take a bit of practice but once you get it you will be able to move your boat sideways into or out of a tight place.

Once you have moved sideways in your slip you can slightly ease your astern throttle and you will start to move forward and correct your heading with your rudders. Again, practice makes it easier.

N

 

[rslifkin]

If you are twin screw with enough rudder area, you should practice moving your boat sideways. Say you want to move your boat to port, you come ahead on your port engine and astern on your stb engine while at the same time you are hard port with your rudders. It takes more throttle than you might think, and you will have to adjust your throttles to keep from moving ahead or astern, and you may need to adjust your rudders slightly. Opposite of the above if you want to move your boat to stb.

It will take a bit of practice but once you get it you will be able to move your boat sideways into or out of a tight place.

Once you have moved sideways in your slip you can slightly ease your astern throttle and you will start to move forward and correct your heading with your rudders. Again, practice makes it easier.

N

This trick works on some twins, but not all. If you have (uncommon) inward rotating props, it'll work very well. With outward rotating, it depends. I've got good size rudders, but it still doesn't work very well on my boat. I can sorta get it to diagonally move forward away from the dock, but it's not enough to really be useful. Especially not against wind. Between having a keel and too much prop walk fighting me, the boat just doesn't want to slide sideways like that.

 

[psneeld]

I haven't found many boats that can really move sideways enough to eve really use the technique. Maybe because I was rarely at docks that had light enough winds or currents when I really needed to move sideways.

Plus...if you want to move to port, do you really want the rudders hard to port with the port engine in forward?

 

[rslifkin]

I haven't found many boats that can really move sideways enough to eve really use the technique. Maybe because I was rarely at docks that had light enough winds or currents when I really needed to move sideways.

Plus...if you want to move to port, do you really want the rudders hard to port with the port engine in forward?

For that last bit, to move port, you'd be rudders hard stbd, stbd engine fwd, port engine reverse. But that means you're creating a battle of prop walk vs rudder on most boats, hence the very limited amount of sideways movement.

 

[psneeld]

For that last bit, to move port, you'd be rudders hard stbd, stbd engine fwd, port engine reverse. But that means you're creating a battle of prop walk vs rudder on most boats, hence the very limited amount of sideways movement.

I know how I would do it...

I was commenting on this posting... "If you are twin screw with enough rudder area, you should practice moving your boat sideways. Say you want to move your boat to port, you come ahead on your port engine and astern on your stb engine while at the same time you are hard port with your rudders. It takes more throttle than you might think, and you will have to adjust your throttles to keep from moving ahead or astern, and you may need to adjust your rudders slightly. Opposite of the above if you want to move your boat to stb."

 

[rslifkin]

I know how I would do it...

I was commenting on this posting... "If you are twin screw with enough rudder area, you should practice moving your boat sideways. Say you want to move your boat to port, you come ahead on your port engine and astern on your stb engine while at the same time you are hard port with your rudders. It takes more throttle than you might think, and you will have to adjust your throttles to keep from moving ahead or astern, and you may need to adjust your rudders slightly. Opposite of the above if you want to move your boat to stb."

Yeah, that description was totally backwards.

 

[captmikem]

For that last bit, to move port, you'd be rudders hard stbd, stbd engine fwd, port engine reverse. But that means you're creating a battle of prop walk vs rudder on most boats, hence the very limited amount of sideways movement.

It is not the prop walk you are using, ahead on one engine and astern on the other puts a twisting thrust on the boat to move the stern in one direction, bow in the opposite direction, counter rudder then causes a flow of move the stern in that direction, so the twist moves the bow, rudder thrust moves the stern.

M

 

[captmikem]

Yeah, that description was totally backwards.

I realized that after I posted. I am a bit dyslexic, I was a cop but got fired for giving IUD's to drunk drivers.

M

 

[psneeld]

It is not the prop walk you are using, ahead on one engine and astern on the other puts a twisting thrust on the boat to move the stern in one direction, bow in the opposite direction, counter rudder then causes a flow of move the stern in that direction, so the twist moves the bow, rudder thrust moves the stern.

M

Sorry but on boats I run, if you have the port engine in forward and rudder hard to port... the stern usually kicks to starboard and bow to port.

The starboard engine in reverse wants to pull the bow back to starboard and " theoretically" the boat might move sideways to starboard, not port.

Not sure that is how you originally posted and I am not including prop walk which should just help a tad.

 

[OldDan1943]

I realized that after I posted. I am a bit dyslexic, I was a cop but got fired for giving IUD's to drunk drivers.

M

Now that's funny.

 

[rslifkin]

It is not the prop walk you are using, ahead on one engine and astern on the other puts a twisting thrust on the boat to move the stern in one direction, bow in the opposite direction, counter rudder then causes a flow of move the stern in that direction, so the twist moves the bow, rudder thrust moves the stern.

M

That's the goal, yes. But with outward counter rotating props, the prop walk is trying to push you the other direction. So it's a game of rudder authority vs prop walk. Depending on how much prop walk you have, rudder sizing, and hull shape, you may overcome the prop walk enough to move sideways or you may not.

 

[markpierce]

Avoid a boat with a "cruise-ship" (aka high) profile, have a bow thruster if you've only a single engine, and have a large rudder. Believe one can usually get off the dock with a boat with such characteristics, single-handed. Worked for me.

 

[OldDan1943]

In my opinion, getting off a face dock can be easy with 3 variables, spring line, rudder and a single engine. The rest is icing on the cake. If you have electric thrusters, you need strong batteries to support them. 2 engines, I cannot address, I only have one engine and a 'barn door' for a rudder. I fine tune with with the thrusters.

Everything I have said is base upon my minimal experience and the Chapman book.

 

[psneeld]

Pinned on a facedock where you cant back out and pinned by wind is not exactly easy to get off of if single engine, no thruster and prop walk working against you.

As described, it really wasnt a facedock and a boat next to the OP further complicated things to a point.

There are ways using a spring off the upwind boat or dock like someone previously mentioned...or sliding down the dock and quick maneuvering at the end.

Either way is not for beginners or less than good boat handlers.

In that situation the best suggested solution is wait and or never go to a slip like that where unfavorable winds are forecast and a departure is necessary.