Gasoline Engine to the Inside Passage / Vanc Island

[JustOne]

Thoughts or experiences with making treks from Anacortes to places like the Desolation Sound, Inside Passage to SE Alaska, or circumnavigating Vancouver Island with a gasoline engine? More specifically for reference a 32 foot Fiberglass, semi-displacement hulled, single-screwed gasoline engine powered by a 455 Marine Oldsmobile that has low miles and maintenance done before trip and monitoring as needed throughout?


I know the diesel reliability, safety, fuel efficiency points. But I'd like to hear of any experience or practical thoughts of the gasoline doing the trip.


Thanks!

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. What is the fuel capacity of the boat?

 

[ssobol]

Depends on the operating range of your boat. I know of someone who documented a circumnavigation of Vancouver Isl. in a 22' boat with a gas outboard.

 

[guy with a boat]

There is no reason a gas engine can’t be completely reliable if properly installed and maintained.

 

[Constellation1]

Desolation, no issues - go. The others would take significantly more planning and and plans for what-if scenarios. As others have said, start with your fuel range allowing for negative weather, wind and tidal effects and go from there.

 

[Ken E.]

Going north, once above Cape Caution the gas docks are few and far between. The ones I know of are in Rivers Inlet, Shearwater at Bella Bella, Klemtu, Hartley Bay, Prince Rupert, and then 85 miles to Ketchikan. You'd want check the distances vs your boat's range with the fuel you'll carry.

 

[Lepke]

When I was a commercial fisherman, there were still a few older boats with gas engines.
Besides fuel safety, the only real problem was the older, pre-electronic ignition. I had a friend with a 1927, 50' boat with twin Chrysler Crown engines (6 cylinder, flathead). After sitting overnight at anchor, the moist air drawn into the engine when it cooled, would sometimes come up the distributor shaft and form water drops on the cap, causing erratic spark. The cap had to be sprayed internally with an water repelling product in order to start and run the engines. Besides the spray, he carried spare distributor caps so he could quickly swap and start up.
He burned more fuel than my Detroit, but gas was about 35¢/gallon.

 

[rslifkin]

As long as it has enough fuel range and a reliable electronic ignition system, I'd say go for it. No reason a gas engine can't be made solid and reliable.

 

[markpierce]

Nevertheless, I like the smell of diesel fumes.

 

[Comodave]

Yes, diesel is definitely more safe but a properly maintained gas boat can be safe also. And always check for gas fumes before starting.

 

[High Wire]

Welcome aboard!
Olds 455? Used in Berkeley Jet Drive packages? Raw water cooled and at least 40 years old?
When new they were less than 1 percent of the marine engines sold. Parts are rare specialty items.
I see a complete repower in your future. Sorry.
I have no problem with gas engines for the trip at hand but 10+ year old gasoline fuel lines are brittle as pretzel rods. They better have been all changed out in the last few years with A1 rated, alcohol resistant lines.

 

[FF]

The OLDS 455 was GM's strongest gas engine.

It was chosen for the GM transval hauler, the air ride vehicle that was smooth enough to carry tube type sat. transmitters for news reporting.

As the transistor replaced the tubes, the chassis was sold to multiple RV converters.

They are still valued as the front wheel drive left a flat floor for the conversion and the unit could tow most any car weight. And of course the ride is smooth as an air ride coach.

The 455 is smooth and quiet , gas use isn't bad if run at RPM where the secondaries do not open. A vacuum gauge would be a good idea for long range use.

Enjoy your trip.

https://www.gmcmi.com/basic-history/

 

[rslifkin]

Yes, diesel is definitely more safe but a properly maintained gas boat can be safe also. And always check for gas fumes before starting.

Agreed. Religious use of blowers, engine checks before start and a fume detector go a long way to keeping things safe.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Unlike diesel engines where hours on the engine are not as important as maintenance, gas engines will almost always require a rebuild or replacement between 1,500 and 2,000 hours, regardless of how they have been maintained.

Sure there are stories of gassers going longer than 2,000 hours but they are the exception, and rare.

pete

 

[tiltrider1]

I ran twin gas from seattle to desolation for over 10 years. Never had an engine issue nor an issue finding fuel.

 

[rslifkin]

Unlike diesel engines where hours on the engine are not as important as maintenance, gas engines will almost always require a rebuild or replacement between 1,500 and 2,000 hours, regardless of how they have been maintained.

Sure there are stories of gassers going longer than 2,000 hours but they are the exception, and rare.

pete

There's no hard rule that they wear out at that point. And honestly, most don't. But most gassers are in boats that don't see a whole lot of use, so they get old before they collect a ton of hours. And most of them have crap exhaust system designs, so if the owners aren't really good about keeping on top of riser condition, etc. they end up either slowly damaging them or outright killing them from water intrusion. And honestly, a lot of diesels die early from neglect as well.

And it depends on the engine too, of course. Just like diesels, some gassers are pretty long lived, others not so much (especially high performance ones that are regularly run hard).

One of my 454s was replaced due to damage resulting from an oil line failure (not during my care of the boat). Currently, I've got 1 engine with ~230 hours and one with ~1730. As far as how they run, I can't tell them apart. The higher hours one actually holds a little better oil pressure at hot idle, still has good compression, etc. Only noticeable difference is that the newer one burns maybe 1/8 of a quart of oil in 100 hours and the high hours one will burn closer to 3/4 of a quart in the same amount of time (which is well within what I'd consider acceptable, even for a newer engine). I don't hesitate to have them running for 8+ hours straight when traveling and they do it without a hiccup. But these have been well cared for, exhaust systems maintained, etc. Most suffer at least some level of neglect damage before this point, sadly.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I did it in the 70’s w an OB powered plywood boat of my own design.
55hp OB .. 28’ OAL .. 12 knot cruise .. 2.5-3gph .. very light boat.

Gasoline is not the devils fuel. Most all pleasure boats of the day were gasoline powered. Many were much smaller than my 28’. Some traveled in groups like most fishermen do even today. Look in the Alaska Sportsman mag. And you’ll see a reoccurring feature called “With the outboards”. This was before my time on the water in the mid to early 50’s. At that time 16 - 20’ outboards were making the treck to Juneau, again mostly in groups but many were solo. Many trailered to Rupert and headed for Ketchikan. The biggest challenge was where to get fuel and of course the weather.

The question is not what kind of fuel you burn but are you and your boat (including the engine) up to it? I’ve known people that do it in rowboats (in the 50’s (and probably the 20’s))and know others that also do it. With sail or oars/paddles the trip is largely done waiting for the tide.

So upgrade your skills and attitude, refit/upgrade your boat - gas up and go.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Unlike diesel engines where hours on the engine are not as important as maintenance, gas engines will almost always require a rebuild or replacement between 1,500 and 2,000 hours, regardless of how they have been maintained.

Sure there are stories of gassers going longer than 2,000 hours but they are the exception, and rare.

pete

I also disagree w Pete on gas engine longevity. Almost nobody would go north numerous times assuming their engines would be clapped out after several trips. And before diesel trucks were numerous gas trucks ruled the road. Gas trucks that growled up the hills in first gear were the norm. And most were automotive car engines w special valves and valve seats. Most (like Dodges) were flatheads.

 

[koliver]

Olds 455? Used in Berkeley Jet Drive packages? Raw water cooled and at least 40 years old?

Another trip down memory lane. Way back, before he got married, so 70s, my brother had one of those in a lake boat. Before he got the salt water disease.

 

[C lectric]

A gas engined boat will do fine as long as it is maintained and looked after properly.
The range will be less per gallon of fuel so pay attention to that.

My first two boats , one a single outdrive, one a twin shaft drive, did just fine to desolation.

I see gassers here in the Broughtons including some that have travelled with me.
They just have to pay attention to the fuel stops.

Good boating

 

[JustOne]

Thanks all for the replies and welcomes.


A little more about the boat - it's a Robert's built in 1970 and the hull supposedly capable of Bristol Bay. The original owner was meticulous about it until he had to sell it in 2011 due to his advanced age and dementia. The owner of the last 10 years says the original owner would come visit it until around 2014.


It's old but it's had an engine rebuild in 2014 including cylinder heads, gaskets, rocker arms, exhaust manifold, gaskets, water pump, thermostat, alternator belt, and more. Transmission was done in 2011. Bottom painted every 2-3 years and zincs yearly. He uses an engine room heater in the Winter set to thermostat temp at 43 deg F.


It either has two 50 gallon or two 75 gallon tanks (will need to measure as owner is unsure). The owner says he liked to cruise at 2400-2800RPM for 9-11 knots/hr. He believes it uses 3gph at those numbers but not sure.


The boats seems nicely kept up and I'd mainly be cruising the San Juans with the family for the next few years. Those other trips I'd like to work up to...


Among the work needed (that he divulges) is some minor fiberglass cracks on the flybridge fiberglass rails (I've seen them and nothing structural), a battery (1 of two is good), there's a small power steering drip, a new canvas cover within the next few years (has a pretty good sized one for the last several years) and he doesn't think the fuel gauges are completely accurate...I'd like to put a flow sensor on as well.


Sounds like if the tanks are 75 gallon and I keep up on maintenance than I'm good to go! I'd add a bower and a few other safety measures as well. I work on my own used cars - oil, brakes, water pumps, radiator, etc.

 

[JustOne]

I should've mentioned - on the conservative end of fuel use - if traveling at 8 knots using 5 gph you'd get a distance of 62.5 nautical miles (8 knots per hr / 5 GPH = 1.6 miles per gallon).

If two 50 gallon tanks then an ambitious range is 160 NM...but then again, that's ambitious and I'm not dumb.
If the tanks are two 75's then range is 240 NMs.

 

[Bill V]

In the past 16 years I have cruised to Ucluelet to fish 8 times running the 165 miles in about 7 hours and took on about 155 gallons of fuel. Have done the Desolation Sound 6 times, Port Hardy twice including a circumnavigation of Vancouver Island once. I carry 200 gallons of fuel, 65 gallons of water and generally cruise in the 20-30 mph range for the trip. My first set of 350/300hp Crusader engines did a good job but at 923 hrs the port engine broke a piston and I repowered with bullet proof forged crank, rods and pistons in custom built stroker roller cam and rockers 383 engines that have been virtually perfect in the 3 years I have had them. I do carry a spare ignition modules, an alternator and carb rebuild kit. I believe the key to a lasting gas powered engine is good maintenance. I change engine oil and filter at 100 hours, transmission oil & filter at 200 hours, spark plugs at 200 hours, belts at 200 hours and raw water pumps at 300 hours.

 

[FF]

"It's old but it's had an engine rebuild in 2014 including cylinder heads, gaskets, rocker arms, exhaust manifold, gaskets, water pump, thermostat, alternator belt, and more.

Don't know weather the marine engine used the auto style timing chain , but the auto ones may get a bit noisy at about 80,000 miles, but they don't fail.

Next refresh install a double row timing chain.

 

[Pcpete]

Instead of investing in an expensive flow meter, that has to be adjusted to the actual flow, keep a record of your fuel burn at every refill. Not the engine hours each time, then you can develop short and long term actual fuel consumption plans. You would need to do this to set the flow meter anyway as I understand the system setup.
I’ve cruised to Desolation and beyond in gas powered boats since the 1960’s and with proper maintenance and safety habits there were very few issues. I suggest you read “The Curve of Time”. It’s about a family cruising the length of Vancouver Island in a gas powered boat…in the 1920’s and 30’s. It will boost your confidence.

 

[rsn48]

According to the Slow Boat group (they flotilla boats from Seattle up to Alaska), the longest fuel jump is 85 miles. Your boat will easily do that.

Don't know if I buy the 3.5 gallons per hour at ten knots. Most gassers on larger boats burn roughly one gallon per miles per hour. This is true on my new Merc 350 engine. The issue isn't range, or safety, or durability, its how deep your credit card is for fuel when travelling long distances with a gasser. A round trip from Comox to Victoria and back would cost me roughly $1600 at today's high gas prices bought from a marina.

 

[kabyak]

As to circumnavigating Vancouver Island, fuel is available in each of the 5 major sounds on the west side. There were lots of small sportfishers operating gas boats there in 2019 when we went around.

 

[MVDarlin]

Give done all if that in my 43ft twin diesel trawler. Can't imagine doing it with a gas engine.

 

[Nomad Willy]

C lectric,
I remember running south w my 28’ OB and tanking up. For a long run like Rupert to Shearwater I’d fill my 45 gallon main tank and then several portable 6 gal. tanks and a few Jerry jugs too.
I’d lean out over the stern and change the 13” pitch prop (regular) to an 11” pitch prop. Went faster w the 11 w full fuel plus. Then after some fuel was burned I’d put the 13” pitch back on.

But yes managing fuel is the biggest problem w smaller boats and paying for it re bigger boats. I had a girlfriend whose father had a Bristol 36’ CC bull nose. It ran two Buick V6’s. Went everywhere including Juneau from Edmonds (just north of Seattle).

 

[Art]

When I was a commercial fisherman, there were still a few older boats with gas engines.
Besides fuel safety, the only real problem was the older, pre-electronic ignition. I had a friend with a 1927, 50' boat with twin Chrysler Crown engines (6 cylinder, flathead). After sitting overnight at anchor, the moist air drawn into the engine when it cooled, would sometimes come up the distributor shaft and form water drops on the cap, causing erratic spark. The cap had to be sprayed internally with an water repelling product in order to start and run the engines. Besides the spray, he carried spare distributor caps so he could quickly swap and start up.
He burned more fuel than my Detroit, but gas was about 35¢/gallon.

Diesel per gallon cost at that time?

50's, 60's in New England states diesel was substantially less cost per gallon.