FYI - Vulcan Anchor Test (S/V Panope)

[ranger58sb]

I've seen mentions about templates, but haven't found those for Vulcan, Excel, Delta, etc. Perhaps I've overlooked those, but mostly I've only found varying measurements, mostly no 2 makers alike... and making templates from those seems more like art than science.

?

But I agree, some kind of mock-up will be best...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

For the Vulcan, Rocna has templates (they're on the sizing guide page, not the Vulcan description page): https://rocna.com/fitment-guide/

The biggest issue with Vulcan sizing is likely to be the lack of a 100 lb size. They go right from 88 to 121 lbs.

I don't think there are templates for the Delta or the Excel, however. I found one place in the UK selling templates for the Excel, but I don't know if they'll ship to the US (they measured anchors they had on hand and made cardboard templates).

 

[sunchaser]

I've seen mentions about templates, but haven't found those for Vulcan, Excel, Delta, etc. Perhaps I've overlooked those, but mostly I've only found varying measurements, mostly no 2 makers alike... and making templates from those seems more like art than science.

?

But I agree, some kind of mock-up will be best...

-Chris

Chris
I got a Vulcan template from Hop Car. They used to be on the mfrs website too. If need be, PM me your email and I'll forward the 40kg Vulcan template if I can locate it. How much does your vessel weigh? At 52,000 to 58,000 lbs our vessel with a 40 kg Vulcan holds tight with an all chain rode. Our spare anchor is a Fortress 55, never deployed and still in its red bag.

 

[psneeld]

All I ever get out of anchoring discussions is they are like picking a significant other....

No right or correct answer...some perform well in certain situations and none can do it all.

Expecting perfect, all around performance will ultimately lead to divorce.

No matter what, do your due diligence, make the best decisions you can when together, and hope for the best.

We all know what really happens when you take advice from others not in your shoes.

I view anchor tests like dating/mate services... they work sometimes and fail miserably others... most of the time you try it out and if it works great....if not move along.

 

[ranger58sb]

For the Vulcan, Rocna has templates (they're on the sizing guide page, not the Vulcan description page): https://rocna.com/fitment-guide/

The biggest issue with Vulcan sizing is likely to be the lack of a 100 lb size. They go right from 88 to 121 lbs.

I don't think there are templates for the Delta or the Excel, however. I found one place in the UK selling templates for the Excel, but I don't know if they'll ship to the US (they measured anchors they had on hand and made cardboard templates).

Thanks, that helps for the Vulcan!

Chris
I got a Vulcan template from Hop Car. They used to be on the mfrs website too. If need be, PM me your email and I'll forward the 40kg Vulcan template if I can locate it. How much does your vessel weigh? At 52,000 to 58,000 lbs our vessel with a 40 kg Vulcan holds tight with an all chain rode. Our spare anchor is a Fortress 55, never deployed and still in its red bag.

Thanks, the link above solves it, I think, at least for the Vulcan. Useful to know your experience. Ours is 51.5K lbs.

All I ever get out of anchoring discussions is they are like picking a significant other....

I view anchor tests like dating/mate services... they work sometimes and fail miserably others... most of the time you try it out and if it works great....if not move along.

FWIW, I find it more difficult to find actual useful measurements... for study of potential pre-fitting... than it is to choose between various features. Which pretty much agrees with your thoughts.



-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

And...

Much of my yammering above has been a bit preliminary to gathering actual factoids. One of which is to confirm what anchor I've got now, and to eyeball some basic roller measurements and so forth that might guide me toward a better solution.

So today, I got bunch of pictures -- only stumbled over the ladder and an adjacent jackstand once -- and actually confirmeed the anchor we've got is NOT a 25kg/55lb Delta... but instead a smaller 20kg/44lb version.

Hmph!

Oh, well, anyway I've got some more info now, so that'll hopefully help.

@rslifkin I found it's Jimmy Green Marine in the UK that sells Excel templates. Didn't ask them yet about availability to US buyers; instead I asked Ground Tackle Marine whether they have templates... just thinking to try them first, given they're the North America Distributor for Anchor Right Australia.

I can't dream up a reason any anchor maker -- who actually wants to sell more anchors -- wouldn't automatically think to have mockups, or at least patterns to make mockups, available. But then again I expect most anchor makers are maybe metallurgists and fabricators, and (perhaps obviously) not marketing majors.

-Chris

 

[Scrib]

This is all very timely data, info, and opinion. I sold my GB36 last fall and bought a lobster yacht style boat to replace it. It's got a generic plow type anchor on the pulpit that will be replaced before the summer season (Maine). Typically I carry two primary anchors - a Fortress FX23 and a Manson Supreme 35lb. Both anchors always performed extremely well for me but I definitely used them according to what kind of bottom I was anchoring on. Whatever happened to Manson? Mostly a rhetorical question 'cause it looks like I need to go to a different anchor this time. For the record, yes I'd pay for shipping on a new anchor but I don't really want to!

BTW, I really like the "roll bar" style as we have to deal with tide changes every 6 hours whether we need it or not and the roll bar clearly helps the reset process when it needs to happen ... sometimes it just doesn't pull out so doesn't actually re-set.

 

[rslifkin]

BTW, I really like the "roll bar" style as we have to deal with tide changes every 6 hours whether we need it or not and the roll bar clearly helps the reset process when it needs to happen ... sometimes it just doesn't pull out so doesn't actually re-set.

Watch some of the SV Panope videos. In many situations, the rollbar has not proven to be an advantage. And in some cases, it's been a disadvantage.

 

[Scrib]

Watch some of the SV Panope videos. In many situations, the rollbar has not proven to be an advantage. And in some cases, it's been a disadvantage.

I can only speak from experience, my experience. I've experienced CQR and I've experienced Delta neither of which held a candle to my experiences with Manson Supreme.

 

[ranger58sb]

I can only speak from experience, my experience. I've experienced CQR and I've experienced Delta neither of which held a candle to my experiences with Manson Supreme.

In the local soft mud tests, Manson Supreme was better than CQR which was in turn was marginally better than Delta. (My own experience with Delta is good in firm substrate, not so great in soup.)

https://fortressanchors.com//wp-content/uploads/2019/01/chesapeake_bay_performance_chart.pdf

A Mantus and an Ultra did better yet. In that one set of tests.

Several currently-likely candidates were not tested, including Vulcan and Excel, Super SARCA... and then some I hadn't heard about (Kingston, Viking, etc.).

Surprise outcome I think was that the rollbar Rocna did worst of all.

In that one set of tests.

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

I can only speak from experience, my experience. I've experienced CQR and I've experienced Delta neither of which held a candle to my experiences with Manson Supreme.

That's not surprising, as the Manson is considered new gen, while the Delta and CQR are much older. But there are non-rollbar new gen anchors as well, which seem to have a bit more well rounded performance than the rollbar types.

 

[Tator]

Timely info for us as well. We just purchased a Rocna 22 and am now considering returning it and possibly buying a Viking. We've been using a Davis (Forjord style) 65# for 15 years and wanted to upgrade. I looked at the Vulcan and it doesn't look like it will clear the hull when swinging from the roller. I've emailed Viking to get further specs to see if it will clear and haven't heard back. Thanks for turning us on to the Panope YouTubes.

Tator

 

[rslifkin]

Just thought to post this. This is my 73 lb Vulcan sitting on my bow (from a side view).

Exact tip clearance will vary depending on how it sits in the roller (due to the shape of the shank). In my case, I had to modify the pulpit slot with a notch to get it even that far up (it hits at the front of the notch), but it sits well like that, so I didn't feel the need to go further and try to get it up another inch or so. In my case, tip clearance is at the least when fully docked, the hull flare means it's got more during retrieval.

 

[BruceK]

I've seen mentions about templates, but haven't found those for Vulcan, Excel, Delta, etc. Perhaps I've overlooked those, but mostly I've only found varying measurements, mostly no 2 makers alike... and making templates from those seems more like art than science....

-Chris

Sarca provide quite good diagrams + measurements. This is for the Excel #5 I have but they are there for all sizes.
SARCA Excel No 5 - Anchor Right Australia

I had to buy an Excel, the S/Sarca didn`t fit the new boat. The gal SS did well, I see no need except aesthetics for stainless.

 

[Njlarry]

As I recall for mud he rates both the Fortress and the CQR most highly. The Frotress holds well but does not reset as well as the CQR. Game plan is to make current Fortress the bavkup snd secure a CQR for primary.

 

[rslifkin]

As I recall for mud he rates both the Fortress and the CQR most highly. The Frotress holds well but does not reset as well as the CQR. Game plan is to make current Fortress the bavkup snd secure a CQR for primary.

Don't bother buying a CQR. They're not the worst thing you could have, but also far from the best. I might use one for free, but I certainly wouldn't spend money on one.

 

[FWT]

As I recall for mud he rates both the Fortress and the CQR most highly. The Frotress holds well but does not reset as well as the CQR. Game plan is to make current Fortress the bavkup snd secure a CQR for primary.

Here is the latest video, and I link the latest for the most current updated ratings. Skip to the end for the ratings.

CQR is rated poorly for the soft Chesapeake mud. Not as bad as Delta, but close.

 

[ranger58sb]

Just thought to post this. This is my 73 lb Vulcan sitting on my bow (from a side view).

Exact tip clearance will vary depending on how it sits in the roller (due to the shape of the shank).

Imagine my upper bow roller starting about 3" forward of where your shackle is... and the lower roller about 3" forward of that. I'll have to prepare a mock-up using that template you found for me, but I expect the tip would be hard against the stem well before I got the thing tight.

Sarca provide quite good diagrams + measurements. This is for the Excel #5 I have but they are there for all sizes.

Umm. Not horrible, but not my idea of "quite good."

I watched a video yesterday, someone made a mock-up using those measurements, decided to buy, got the anchor... and the mock-up didn't look all that close to the real anchor.

In the Anchor Right case, if I can get a ready-made mockup that'd be about the bee's knees. We'll see how that goes...

I think I'll also try to learn if my 20/44 Delta is a PO-sourced replacement for what I thought was the original 25/55 Delta (cited to be a Lewmar 60-lb SS plow in our Parts Manual). Some of my interest in that is about pursuing an anchor with decent holding power, but also about figuring out what will work on our existing roller. I've seen some light mods where another owner just installed larger wheels in his roller system and that made a good difference in his case...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

Imagine my upper bow roller starting about 3" forward of where your shackle is... and the lower roller about 3" forward of that. I'll have to prepare a mock-up using that template you found for me, but I expect the tip would be hard against the stem well before I got the thing tight.

With a double roller and the curve of the Vulcan shank, I'm not sure it would actually touch the upper roller most of the time. Looking at the dimensions for an 88lb Vulcan, if it's docked with the roller in the forward-most part of the shank curve (mine sits with the roller a little higher on the shank than this), the tip is just over 10 inches below the roller.

When I was picking anchors for my boat, I remember determining a few options like the Excel would have put the tip closer to the hull than the Vulcan. I think a Mantus M1 would have fit, but in my case, the roll bar would have been an issue with the pulpit (would have needed to go to an 85 lb and would have needed some manual fussing to put the rollbar over the end of the pulpit when docked).

I found a couple of pictures from when I first fit the anchor to the boat (before modifying the pulpit slot to get the anchor a little higher on the roller). This may give a better idea of where the tip ends up during retrieval before the anchor pivots onto the roller vs where it ends up fully docked.

It's possible in your case that no adequately sized anchor will fit well on the stock Sea Ray roller. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Sea Ray never expected anyone to put an adequately sized anchor on the boat (vs the "it needs an anchor so we can sell it" size that many get, as many buyers of those will never anchor outside of a few hours in nice weather).

Unfortunately many builders are bad about providing undersized anchors (and related gear). I'm lucky it only took a little bit of modification to the roller (cut out a metal cross piece) and a little massaging of the pulpit slot with a dremel on my boat, considering the anchor placed on that roller by the factory was a 13 lb CQR . By that logic, I'm also lucky that the roller assembly was actually strong enough to be worth modifying vs replacing.

 

[rslifkin]

As a note, the Vulcan looks absolutely monstrous when not installed on a boat. When mine first arrived, I took this picture (size 9 foot for scale). I had a big moment of "I don't care what the tape measure says, there's no way that'll fit!" Of course, it didn't look quite so huge once it was sitting on the bow.

 

[ranger58sb]

I found a couple of pictures from when I first fit the anchor to the boat (before modifying the pulpit slot to get the anchor a little higher on the roller). This may give a better idea of where the tip ends up during retrieval before the anchor pivots onto the roller vs where it ends up fully docked.

It's possible in your case that no adequately sized anchor will fit well on the stock Sea Ray roller. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Sea Ray never expected anyone to put an adequately sized anchor on the boat (vs the "it needs an anchor so we can sell it" size that many get, as many buyers of those will never anchor outside of a few hours in nice weather).

Thanks. Your second pic is especially helpful.

I wouldn't be shocked either.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

As a note, the Vulcan looks absolutely monstrous when not installed on a boat. When mine first arrived, I took this picture (size 9 foot for scale). I had a big moment of "I don't care what the tape measure says, there's no way that'll fit!" Of course, it didn't look quite so huge once it was sitting on the bow.

Yes, anchors shrink once you have them on. My sister says the same thing about diamond rings (gulp)

 

[ranger58sb]

On request, Ground Tackle Marine did indeed send me patterns for the Excel #7 and #8. Nice!

They're each a single sheet with scaling info, so not quite the same as the Vulcan patterns... but should be adequate to put a mock-up together.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

FYI - Kingston makes a roller for a 44/55 lb Vulcan

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=5376617

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

Here's what I've got to work with:

 

[rslifkin]

I'm thinking a Vulcan may fit on that with how much hull flare you have. It won't tuck the fluke up nearly as high as that Delta. Ignore the upper roller for now, measure from the lower. Straight down 10 inches from the forwardmost point of the lower roller (forward side, vertical center). Then see how far you are from the hull at that 10 inches down.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm thinking a Vulcan may fit on that with how much hull flare you have. It won't tuck the fluke up nearly as high as that Delta. Ignore the upper roller for now, measure from the lower. Straight down 10 inches from the forwardmost point of the lower roller (forward side, vertical center). Then see how far you are from the hull at that 10 inches down.

That's useful, thanks.

Builder confirmed the original anchor was a galvanized 60-lb plow supplied by Southcoast Marine Products Inc... who also fabricated the davit/roller system. Other owners have described it as a Delta clone.

Advantageous to have a boat made by a builder still in business, even if they no longer make our model!

-Chris

 

[Mischief Managed]

The physical size of my Vulcan 33kg was a surprise for me (and the staff at my local West Marine where I special ordered it) as well. It is enormous and it looked absurdly big in the store. The guy hanging from it in the photo below is 6 feet and 180lbs.



My backup anchor is a Fortress FX-37 that I am pretty sure has never been used. I am the forth owner of my boat and I bought the Fortress (and a truck load of other cruising stuff) from the second owner. The third owner never cruised the boat and did not want any of it.



My boat came with a 60lb CQR that I did not care for when used in my local anchorages. It always felt mushy when it set and rarely inspired confidence. I replaced it after just a few uses. The Vulcan sets violently, in comparison. The boat just stops dead as soon as the slack goes out of the chain.



I love the Vulcan, my only complain is that it is very resistant to spinning under water on retrieval and after multiple days at anchor, it can make quite a mess of twisted chain. I added a Mantus swivel that fixed that problem.

 

[rslifkin]

I love the Vulcan, my only complain is that it is very resistant to spinning under water on retrieval and after multiple days at anchor, it can make quite a mess of twisted chain. I added a Mantus swivel that fixed that problem.

I haven't had that issue with mine, but the only times I've spent several days hanging off it have been in 40+ feet of water, so that probably helps the twists sort out on retrieval. My mixed rope/chain rode may be a factor as well.

 

[ranger58sb]

Viewing the Vulcan in the video on Rocna's site... suggests the anchor buries itself until the shank is under the substrate surface... and then subsequent pull just drags the anchor in a straight line. No further burying itself below that. No clue how much pull force is being used, so I dunno of a way to compare that to the Panope test.

Info suggests the fluke toe is unballasted? Peter Smith says they were trying to "avoid the blunt instrument of huge amounts of [dedicated] tip weight" but I can't see why they'd do that. Unless perhaps there were fabrication issues. OTOH, if the fluke is cast, I'd have thought it'd be easier to cast it solid instead of building in a hollow cavity up near the toe. Which might in turn suggest it really IS ballasted, at least sorta-kinda.

Anyway, I'd have thought a fully-encapsulated ballasted tip -- and with a "droop snoot cutting toe" (A Morgan's Cloud term) like the Excel has -- would continue to dive, and that'd be better, in my mind.

I'm dealing with test patterns, as we speak.

Putting my agnostic hat on, I'd hope to find the best anchor for a) here on the Chesapeake, and b) most everywhere else too. Without much initial regard to cost or material or shape and so forth. Recognizing 100% perfection is a pipe-dream.

Changing to my practical hat, I'd prefer a solution that doesn't cost too many arms and legs MORE than it needs to. Part of that ideally means using our existing davit/roller. Part also excludes stainless anchors, unless one of those surfaces to the top of "agnostic" (see above).

Then there's my "foibles and biases" hat. Rollbars don't really attract me (although Steve's testing and Fortress testing, suggests it's OK if I avoid those). Then too, Peter Smith's "trash the other guys" approach to marketing is bit off-putting... and that in turn could well be a tie breaker should I need one.

I wear all these hats (and probably other) simultaneously... which looks a little goofy.

-Chris