FW Pumps

[GBPunky]

Hi there,

I am in the process of rebuilding my fresh water system. The original setup had a Groco Paragon Senior and Junior plumbed in series. I've got a Headhunter 115V and would like to have both it and the Senior, so AC and DC available. Would I simply put a selector valve before the pumps and select whichever I was using? Just a Y and check valves after the pumps? Thank you for any input and suggestions!

 

[Xsbank]

Why bother? Presumably you have a charging system, why complicate the plumbing? You will forget or somebody else will and it will annoy you needlessly. All naked and wet in your shower and you forgot to move the valve? Or trying to flush an unspeakable object and no pressure?

Check valves fail too. Use a nice fat accumulator tank and 12 volts will be adequate.

 

[caltexflanc]

I completely disagree with Xsbank.

We had the set up described by the OP, courtesy of the PO and were very happy with it for many years of living aboard. We had the pumps parallelled so it was very simple. The PO had put an unnecessary valve on the output of the DC pump which we left permanently open. Any decent FW pump has a check valve at the outlet already.

Whichever pump was on was the one that got used. Simple, worked beautifully. The AC shallow well pump had a little bit more oomph than the Galley Maid so that's what we used when on shore power. By the way, that filter canister before the pumps was empty; you don't want anything more than a screen twixt pump and tank, and one was already in place at the tank.

Proper check valves are pretty indestructible, and since our water tanks were molded into the hull, thus below the pumps, you needed one on the suction side so you don't lose prime.

 

[GBPunky]

George, That picture is exactly what I was looking for thank you!

 

[Flatswing]

I'm puzzled by the need for a Paragon Sr & Jr in series. My Paragon Sr. is more than sufficient - cycles on 3 sec every 10-15 sec at full open hose, but for most domestic use in galley, shower etc. cycles 3 secs every 40 sec. Not sure what adding the Jr. in series does. The Sr. electric motors are pretty bullet proof according to Depco pump and can be rebuilt or repaired almost anywhere. I had Depco rebuild my wet end plus bought a new Sr. wet end for current use. More than I will ever need.

 

[catalinajack]

Some folks are interested in something more than just adequate. I, for one, dislike any pulsating in pressure and/or volume. Most 12-volt pumps guarantee drops in pressure and volume regardless of whether there is an accumulator plumbed into the system.

Why bother? Presumably you have a charging system, why complicate the plumbing? You will forget or somebody else will and it will annoy you needlessly. All naked and wet in your shower and you forgot to move the valve? Or trying to flush an unspeakable object and no pressure?

Check valves fail too. Use a nice fat accumulator tank and 12 volts will be adequate.

 

[GBPunky]

I'm puzzled by the need for a Paragon Sr & Jr in series. My Paragon Sr. is more than sufficient - cycles on 3 sec every 10-15 sec at full open hose, but for most domestic use in galley, shower etc. cycles 3 secs every 40 sec. Not sure what adding the Jr. in series does. The Sr. electric motors are pretty bullet proof according to Depco pump and can be rebuilt or repaired almost anywhere. I had Depco rebuild my wet end plus bought a new Sr. wet end for current use. More than I will ever need.

I was puzzled as well.

 

[GBPunky]

George,

I can't quite make out some of the details in the pic. A couple questions. It looks like there is a valve after the D/C pump as you referenced and none after the A/C pump, is that correct? No Y valve from source just a T before both? I can't see where the accumulator tank connects and D/C pump output connects to A/C line after pumps. Would you mind talking through those?

Thanks so much for the replies George and everyone.

 

[caltexflanc]

It looks like there is a valve after the D/C pump as you referenced and none after the A/C pump, is that correct?

No, there is a valve to the left of the oil discharge placard. Never used it either.

[/QUOTE]No Y valve from source just a T before both?[/QUOTE] Correct

I can't see where the accumulator tank connects and D/C pump output connects to A/C line after pumps.

The accumulator is tapped into the boat's copper piped water system. The outflow from the DC pump Y's in right where the line from the AC pump turns right. SeaFit plumbing fittings were used and really came in handy when doing PM and when installing the Water Counter (assembly in the upper right, one of the best upgrades I ever made to the boat).

 

[GBPunky]

Got it thank you George. I plan to add a flow meter as well.

 

[High Wire]

I think the OP meant parallel. No one puts pumps in series unless there is a need for seriously high pressure like in a steam power plant.


Series = Flow passes through both pumps with only one path. 5 GPH that flows through the first pump is the same water that passes through the second pump. Discharge pressures add.
Parallel = Flow has paths through either pump. Flows add. Discharge pressures about the same.

 

[GBPunky]

Archie,

No I meant in series.

 

[High Wire]

OK well when you re-plumb, you will want them in parallel so either pump can be run.

 

[GBPunky]

OK well when you re-plumb, you will want them in parallel so either pump can be run.

That is the plan!

 

[caltexflanc]

By the way, Raz Marine in Ft. Lauderdale used to have a nice one page diagram of how to set up a two pump system. Raz himself (RIP) walked me through it there in the shop, where I was I having a pump rebuilt (actually, trading in a core) That helped me fine tune my system, which needed some tweaking, like not needing to use the valves, relocating the DC pump pressure switch, etc. You might give them a call and see if they still have that; nice people too. Toilet Pumps | Heads | Raritan | Fort Lauderdale Florida | Raz Marine

 

[GBPunky]

Good tip George, thanks again!