Free Pumpouts Ending

[tiltrider1]

And that makes it OK? As has been pointed out just because others do it doesn’t make it right. I agree Victoria’s system should have been updated years ago. It finally is now thank goodness.
Not calling anyone’s pot black. However two posters suggesting they wait to dump until they cross the border is not acceptable and may give the wrong impression to those who don’t know better. Find a pump out. We all share the same ocean.

It’s ok because BC law says it’s ok as long as you are 3 miles from shore.

If we want to change this behavior, we need more pump outs. Number of Pump outs in Washington are still inadequate but they do exist and most use them. Pump outs in BC are very rare.

 

[BDofMSP]

Sir, with respect, it goes far beyond not "liking" the law. Blind obeisance is not a part of my thinking. Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party? The MSP potion of your screen name - just a guess, Michigan State Police?

Yes I've heard about the Boston Tea Party. It was about taxation without representation. Which you definitely have now as a result, and an entire process to work against laws which you consider to be unfair. Not adhering to them is not an act of protest, it's an act of convenience dressed up like one.

Saying that it's about freedom and the constitution being the reason you'll only pump out if it's free - that's the real load of crap here.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well because the Canadians have this figured out. They look at Washington and laugh. Outloud!!

Hope it floats south! What makes you feel it’s ok to dump overboard in Canada within sight of the San Juan’s?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Puget Sound

Until 6 months ago Victoria still dumped raw sewage into the Salish Sea. I think you are the kettle calling the pot black.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
Mr. BK. There are now too many people on earth who don't give a shyte. There. Fixed it for you.

Wifey B: Oh, wrong, son of Groucho.

Here is the real problem:

There are now too many people on earth.

Seriously, isn't that where many problems arise? Are any other planets open to immigrants from Earth? I was afraid of that.

 

[BruceK]

Here is the real problem:

There are now too many people on earth.

Seriously, isn't that where many problems arise? Are any other planets open to immigrants from Earth? I was afraid of that.

That is indeed the problem.
We could start a massive new thread: "Who to send to another planet, whether that planet wants them or not".
Beware "Interesting Boats", you`ll have a rival.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

However two posters suggesting they wait to dump until they cross the border is not acceptable and may give the wrong impression to those who don’t know better. Find a pump out. We all share the same ocean.

What is not acceptable? It is perfectly legal to dump in Canadian waters. There are a few spots, like bays and very crowded places that prohibit dumping in these areas. But leave the bay, then it is legal to dump. No big deal.

It’s ok because BC law says it’s ok as long as you are 3 miles from shore.

If we want to change this behavior, we need more pump outs. Number of Pump outs in Washington are still inadequate but they do exist and most use them. Pump outs in BC are very rare.

Incorrect. There is no 3 mile limit in Canada. You are thinking of U.S. law with regards to dumping 3nm from shore.

In Alaska, if you look on the chart, there are spots on the inside passage that are legal to dump because you are more than 3nm.

Why should I seek out pump out, when I don't need them?

 

[OldDan1943]

and of course, everyone logs the Lat and Long in their official log when they pump out their sanitary tanks.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

and of course, everyone logs the Lat and Long in their official log when they pump out their sanitary tanks.

Nope. Not required.

 

[porman]

https://www.canadianyachting.ca/diy/maintenance/1388-guide-to-sewage-discharge-regs
Good article about current Canadian regulations.

 

[Doug]

What is not acceptable? It is perfectly legal to dump in Canadian waters. There are a few spots, like bays and very crowded places that prohibit dumping in these areas. But leave the bay, then it is legal to dump. No big deal.



Incorrect. There is no 3 mile limit in Canada. You are thinking of U.S. law with regards to dumping 3nm from shore.

For clarification here are the Canadian regulations. The preference is for untreated waste to be discharges at least 3 miles from shore. Note that paragraph (iii) only applies if there are no pump out facilities conveniently available.



(e) in the case of a vessel that is in Section I waters or Section II waters but not in the inland waters of Canada or a designated sewage area, and that is of less than 400 gross tonnage and is not certified to carry more than 15 persons,

• (i) the sewage is comminuted and disinfected using a marine sanitation device and the discharge is made at a distance of at least 1 nautical mile from shore,
• (ii) the discharge is made at a distance of at least 3 nautical miles from shore while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed, or
• (iii) if it is not feasible to meet the requirements of subparagraph (ii) because the vessel is located in waters that are less than 6 nautical miles from shore to shore, the discharge is made while the vessel is en route at a speed of at least 4 knots or, if the discharge is not feasible at that speed, the discharge is made
  • (A) during an ebb tide, while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed and into the deepest waters that are located the farthest from shore, or
  • (B) while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed and into the deepest and fastest moving waters that are located the farthest from shore.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

https://www.canadianyachting.ca/diy/maintenance/1388-guide-to-sewage-discharge-regs
Good article about current Canadian regulations.

Thanks for posting. I stand corrected. But in reality, not much has changed........

 

[localboy]

Until 6 months ago Victoria still dumped raw sewage into the Salish Sea. I think you are the kettle calling the pot black.

Sort of “do as I say, not as I do”. ??

 

[localboy]

And that makes it OK? As has been pointed out just because others do it doesn’t make it right. I agree Victoria’s system should have been updated years ago. It finally is now thank goodness.
Not calling anyone’s pot black. However two posters suggesting they wait to dump until they cross the border is not acceptable and may give the wrong impression to those who don’t know better. Find a pump out. We all share the same ocean.

He didn’t say anything about being OK. He merely pointed out the obvious hypocrisy...

 

[porman]

Not meaning to dump (no pun intended, really) on our Canadian brothers, but here's a story from last Summer. We were at a marina on an island in Canada that will remain unnamed. They were very proud of their free pumpout on the dock. I found out later there was no sewage treatment plant on the island. All their sewage for the whole island went into a pipe that ended a few hundred yards out in the water.

 

[localboy]

For clarification here are the Canadian regulations. The preference is for untreated waste to be discharges at least 3 miles from shore. Note that paragraph (iii) only applies if there are no pump out facilities conveniently available.
(e) in the case of a vessel that is in Section I waters or Section II waters but not in the inland waters of Canada or a designated sewage area, and that is of less than 400 gross tonnage and is not certified to carry more than 15 persons,

• (i) the sewage is comminuted and disinfected using a marine sanitation device and the discharge is made at a distance of at least 1 nautical mile from shore,
• (ii) the discharge is made at a distance of at least 3 nautical miles from shore while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed, or
• (iii) if it is not feasible to meet the requirements of subparagraph (ii) because the vessel is located in waters that are less than 6 nautical miles from shore to shore, the discharge is made while the vessel is en route at a speed of at least 4 knots or, if the discharge is not feasible at that speed, the discharge is made
  • (A) during an ebb tide, while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed and into the deepest waters that are located the farthest from shore, or
  • (B) while the vessel is en route at the fastest feasible speed and into the deepest and fastest moving waters that are located the farthest from shore.

Define “conveniently available”. See, lawyers write like this to open the law to interpretation. Like what is “reasonable”?

 

[AlaskaProf]

That's correct. It was a grant through Washington State that provided funding for a pumpout service to go to boats in marinas, yacht clubs, and even anchorages. The grant did not completely cover the costs. The rest was made up by donations by marinas, yacht clubs, and individuals. Has nothing to do with public pumpouts.

Given that, I think the level of outrage expressed here seems...well...disproportionate. But YMMV.

 

[localboy]

Given that, I think the level of outrage expressed here seems...well...disproportionate. But YMMV.

Citizen taxpayers get tired of government screwing them, which leads to frustration. Simple. Keep kicking a dog and eventually it bites.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Citizen taxpayers get tired of government screwing them, which leads to frustration. Simple. Keep kicking a dog and eventually it bites.

As I was saying.

It seems that the State of Washington provides a lot of infrastructure for the specific purpose under discussion. If they decide that one portion of a good and broadly beneficial program should be allocated elsewhere, that's not "screwing", that's managing the public fisc.

 

[Northern Spy]

If you can't figure out "conveniently available", feel free to stay home.

Not all societies are as litigious as Americans.

I like the idea that there is some flexibility and reasonableness in rules. It works both ways...

Define “conveniently available”. See, lawyers write like this to open the law to interpretation. Like what is “reasonable”?

 

[localboy]

So glad the govt loves “the environment “...

No-contact order for Port Washington Narrows, Sinclair Inlet after 82,000-plus gallon sewage spill in Puget Sound

 

[slowgoesit]

Yep, and it's a good bet that no local PD went up to the Sewage plant and presented them with a ticket . . . but catch one boat accidentally pumping overboard in a NDZ, and Fire and Damnation would rain down upon them . . .

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I call the department responsible for the NDZ. I asked them about Seattle and Tacoma. Their response was " That's a differant law " we are not responsible for enforcement of that law.

Yep, and it's a good bet that no local PD went up to the Sewage plant and presented them with a ticket . . . but catch one boat accidentally pumping overboard in a NDZ, and Fire and Damnation would rain down upon them . . .

 

[localboy]

I call the department responsible for the NDZ. I asked them about Seattle and Tacoma. Their response was " That's a differant law " we are not responsible for enforcement of that law.

I could say what it truly is in WA, but what’s the use? It would just get deleted.

 

[slowgoesit]

Let's see, 82,000 gallons of raw sewage . . . . figuring most black tanks are 20 gallons, even if totally full, that is 4,100 illegal pump outs for cruisers to equal that one spill . . . and no legal action taken against them . . .

 

[tozz]

In the interest of providing up to date information as we get it...

RBAW continues to meet with Parks and gather facts and push on this issue. So far we do know the following from Parks with a meeting scheduled next week to drill down into the specifics:

---snip---
Is the Clean Vessel Act (CVA) Grant Program ending?
No, we are not terminating the CVA Grant Program. The program continues to support ongoing operations and maintenance of more than 140 stationary pumpouts and dump stations and free mobile pumpout services at 10 marinas.

Why is State Parks ending the pilot program?
After assessing the CVA Grant Program, including a desk audit with our federal funding partners at U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, we determined the pilot program’s service model was not financially sustainable.

Why was the pilot program found financially unsustainable?
The average market rate per pumpout is between $25 to $35. The average cost of the pilot program’s service is $40 to $50 per pumpout. The service area was also limited, and the program lacked funding to provide the same service in other areas.

Is there an appeal process?
There is no formal appeal process, but we welcome comments. Please send comments to boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov.

Will this service be provided again?
That’s the goal. We are exploring alternate service models that would provide free mobile pumpout services in areas across Puget Sound. We will share information as it becomes available.

Who do I contact to express support for free mobile pumpout services in my area?
Contact boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov. Be sure to include your location.

---snip---

The public has many questions that we are compiling and bringing up with the Parks dept. including requesting information with regards to fixed location facilities, detailed statistics with regards to program usage and estimated market for the services (ie: how many boats with holding tanks are in the service area), more data about the costs compared to their market rate data and many more. The full FAQ can be found here:

https://parks.state.wa.us/DocumentCenter/View/14860/CVA_Mobile-Pumpout-Update_21JAN2020

regards
-tozz
(RBAW Director and Tyee YC delegate)

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Sp where are we on the lawsuit against the State regarding NDZ buy the tug boat association and other groups, to include RBAW?

In the interest of providing up to date information as we get it...

RBAW continues to meet with Parks and gather facts and push on this issue. So far we do know the following from Parks with a meeting scheduled next week to drill down into the specifics:

---snip---
Is the Clean Vessel Act (CVA) Grant Program ending?
No, we are not terminating the CVA Grant Program. The program continues to support ongoing operations and maintenance of more than 140 stationary pumpouts and dump stations and free mobile pumpout services at 10 marinas.

Why is State Parks ending the pilot program?
After assessing the CVA Grant Program, including a desk audit with our federal funding partners at U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, we determined the pilot program’s service model was not financially sustainable.

Why was the pilot program found financially unsustainable?
The average market rate per pumpout is between $25 to $35. The average cost of the pilot program’s service is $40 to $50 per pumpout. The service area was also limited, and the program lacked funding to provide the same service in other areas.

Is there an appeal process?
There is no formal appeal process, but we welcome comments. Please send comments to boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov.

Will this service be provided again?
That’s the goal. We are exploring alternate service models that would provide free mobile pumpout services in areas across Puget Sound. We will share information as it becomes available.

Who do I contact to express support for free mobile pumpout services in my area?
Contact boatpumpouts@parks.wa.gov. Be sure to include your location.

---snip---

The public has many questions that we are compiling and bringing up with the Parks dept. including requesting information with regards to fixed location facilities, detailed statistics with regards to program usage and estimated market for the services (ie: how many boats with holding tanks are in the service area), more data about the costs compared to their market rate data and many more. The full FAQ can be found here:

https://parks.state.wa.us/DocumentCenter/View/14860/CVA_Mobile-Pumpout-Update_21JAN2020

regards
-tozz
(RBAW Director and Tyee YC delegate)

 

[tozz]

Sp where are we on the lawsuit against the State regarding NDZ buy the tug boat association and other groups, to include RBAW?

I will get an update from our VP of Legislative Affairs for you.

Regards
-tozz

 

[localboy]

Let's see, 82,000 gallons of raw sewage . . . . figuring most black tanks are 20 gallons, even if totally full, that is 4,100 illegal pump outs for cruisers to equal that one spill . . . and no legal action taken against them . . .

This one was small in comparison. King County (encompasses Seattle) put 4.5 MILLION gallons of untreated sewage to The Sound in July, 2019.

This followed KC putting 150 MILLION gallons into The Sound in February, 2017.

Like I said, I could post why all this is happening and no one does anything about it. I work in KC. I know the bureaucracy & corruption inside and out. The county got fined. Which means taxpayers paid. No one got fired. I bet someone got promoted. It's how KC rolls.

 

[tozz]

So (sic) where are we on the lawsuit against the State regarding NDZ buy the tug boat association and other groups, to include RBAW?

There is still pending litigation on this. The tugboats use treatment systems. It’s difficult to get them to pumpout facilities during their long tows, so they are working to meet in a safe place to allow for treatment systems to be allowed.

That’s all we have at this point. I'll keep on top of any new information.