"Free" anchorage? Not really....

[BandB]

They have the same problem in FL with abandoned boats. However, as I heard it, once the local authorities tag a vessel as abandoned (big orange sticker) then it is fair game for anyone who wants it. Of course, by the time any given boat is tagged as abandoned it is usually in such a state that no one wants it anyway.

There is a spot on the ICW just south of the cruise port in FLL that seems to be a drop point for these sorts of boats.

Don't go by what you heard, unless you want to risk prison. Here is a section on FL derelict vessels. https://myfwc.com/boating/waterway/derelict-vessels/

If it has been marked by the state, it's undergoing a criminal investigation. You may then claim it only with the approval of the investigating officer. In general, however, you must report a derelict vessel and pay for an investigation. If the owner isn't found, the state may then transfer it to the finder. The finder can then make application to the state to have the title transferred to their name. The process generally takes at least 45 days and may take 6 months. It costs from $300 to $600 or more.

Once the title is in your name, you may and must remove it as you're now legal owner and fully responsible for everything.

Not a simple process and easy to violate the law.

 

[Tom.B]

I am completely okay with this. People scream bloody murder about the problem that derelict boats cause. Now there is a solution... it is expensive, but it DOES solve the problem. I wish Beaufort, NC would do the same thing.

 

[Tugalert]

$20 K. That's about right. First you have to hire a crane barge and then pay at least 2 licensed men who can operate it. It is not cheap to disposal of the junked vesel. Here it cost around $800 to $1000 dispose a 20 to 25 feet fiberglass boat. And that is not salvage but rather just cutting the boat up and disposal fees.

 

[alvasurg]

Agree with Ancora!

We have a condo on Biscayne Bay surrounded by derelict sailboats! Yes there are responsible (mostly motor boats) that anchor for free and move on. But something has to be done about these idiots that leave their unmasted heap in the water year after year. There has to be a limit to this "free" long term anchorage.

 

[timb]

I am completely okay with this. People scream bloody murder about the problem that derelict boats cause. Now there is a solution... it is expensive, but it DOES solve the problem. I wish Beaufort, NC would do the same thing.

i agree i would love to be close to the horses for a day or two ,but i have to be further away and pay 2.58 a foot because i'm afraid to anchor in the crowded (salvage lot)anchorage .

 

[High Wire]

One problem I see with a anchorage term limit is the occupants are willing to tow each others boats to other areas just far enough to skirt any law. I have seen real junkers getting towed at 0.5 mph to another county to be dropped off. When that area gets hostile, they move back. Here in Englewood 3 years ago the area by the White Elephant was cleared out. Now there is a whole new crop with 4 boats either sunk or stuck in the mangroves and another 2 dozen swinging on the hook until the next storm.

 

[Ski in NC]

Tow them out to sea and sink them.

 

[Flybull]

Tow them out to sea and sink them.

Sounds like a business opportunity...

Small barge with hoist/crane. 2 guys pull engines, fuel tanks/lines, genny, etc...

Second tow boat pulls hull X miles offshore... scuttles.

$8K for boats 25' or less. $12K for boats up to 53'.

Of course the municipality now has to pony up, but we all like our taxes going up anyway, right...?


Just spit-ballin' here...

 

[Woodland Hills]

How much bond would need to be posted to maintain your EPA permits? You won’t be allowed to scuttle without either having them inspect and paying for it or you do it yourself and certify compliance guaranteed by the bond.

Either way the costs go up. Then you have to consider disposal costs of engines, oil, batteries, tanks and contaminated fuel. None is very much alone, but again it all adds up. There is also the costs of liability insurance as well. If there was a business opportunity here someone would already be doing it.

 

[Flybull]

How much bond would need to be posted to maintain your EPA permits? You won’t be allowed to scuttle without either having them inspect and paying for it or you do it yourself and certify compliance guaranteed by the bond.

Either way the costs go up. Then you have to consider disposal costs of engines, oil, batteries, tanks and contaminated fuel. None is very much alone, but again it all adds up. There is also the costs of liability insurance as well. If there was a business opportunity here someone would already be doing it.

That's what they told Jeff Bezos...

 

[Woodland Hills]

That's what they told Jeff Bezos...

That’s not how I remember the history of Amazon. IIRC he was solidly supported by deep pocketed venture capitalists from the very beginning of the online bookstore. There were sceptics and doubters, of course, but there were also supporters who put their money down. But it was a long time ago and I was not there to see for myself.

 

[Comodave]

I watched a TV show last week that said he got a $100k loan from his parents to start Amazon, not venture capitalists.

 

[Woodland Hills]

It took a lot more than $100k to take the company from the online bookstore to the IPO.

 

[geoleo]

$745,400 for 36 vessels??? Something's wrong with this picture. That's $20,705 per vessel. What am I missing here. I could hire a junk man and dispose of a boat for less than $1K. And I'm doing that right now, for WAY less.

They need a fresh new staff of 40 -all are exectutives who will supervise 6 private junk contractors who pay illegals 3.50 an hour to do the actual work. Of course this does not include lifetime health Insurance and huge pensions.

 

[CaptTom]

This is a classic "tragedy of the commons" issue. Sadly, the only solution is regulation.

Of course, the debate is: What kind of regulation is appropriate?

My own preference is to avoid imposing new fees and taxes on boat owners. Remember, we're a minority, and in a democracy, majority rules. Also, money rules, and waterfront land owners have us beat there, too.

I go back to the concept of the right of navigation. Anchoring, to me, is part of that right. Living aboard a derelict and never navigating, IMHO, is not a right.

If there were any political will to do so, a regulation could be crafted to protect the right of navigation without granting the right to vagrancy.

To me, it's just plain wrong for anyone to claim a certain plot of water in a good anchorage as their own in perpetuity. And that goes for derelict liveaboards, abandoned wrecks or private "destination" moorings.

 

[Woodland Hills]

So what happens when states get tired of the eyesore and the taxpayers refuse to fund the cleanup of somebody else’s mess? Seems to me that the only answer then is a disposal bond of sufficient size to pay for the proper disposal of any and all watercraft. It would be rolled into the annual state registration fee and collected and administrated by the states. If the fee was uniform among the various states then there would be no benefit in ‘bond shopping’ for a cheaper state.

 

[psneeld]

This is a classic "tragedy of the commons" issue. Sadly, the only solution is regulation.

Of course, the debate is: What kind of regulation is appropriate?

My own preference is to avoid imposing new fees and taxes on boat owners. Remember, we're a minority, and in a democracy, majority rules. Also, money rules, and waterfront land owners have us beat there, too.

I go back to the concept of the right of navigation. Anchoring, to me, is part of that right. Living aboard a derelict and never navigating, IMHO, is not a right.

If there were any political will to do so, a regulation could be crafted to protect the right of navigation without granting the right to vagrancy.

To me, it's just plain wrong for anyone to claim a certain plot of water in a good anchorage as their own in perpetuity. And that goes for derelict liveaboards, abandoned wrecks or private "destination" moorings.

Agreed.


I could see a month as max without shifting position more than say a mile....but would listen to up or down alternatives as well as distance alternatives and of course exceptions by special permit..... maybe...

 

[healhustler]

"$745,400 for 36 vessels??? Something's wrong with this picture. That's $20,705 per vessel. What am I missing here."

Government doing anything is never cheap.

In NYC the cost for the housing authority to change a single light bulb is $1,900.

Hope my wife reads that, Fred. I’ve done at least a half dozen in the last six months, and the other day I had to change out my empty toilet paper roll!

 

[O C Diver]

Well if you're looking for solutions:

The waterways are public domain / property (with some exceptions). As such, (and just like automobiles) require boats to be registered / licensed and insured. Requires all boat insurance policies (even if only liability) to include recovery and disposal costs. Require boats to display a registration and an insurance sticker. Boats without registration or insurance are towed and impounded (just like a car) until the issue is resolved. Add a 10% surcharge to boat registrations for an uninsured derelict removal fund. Then turn the state marine police loose.

Ted

 

[CaptTom]

Well if you're looking for solutions:

The waterways are public domain / property (with some exceptions). As such, (and just like automobiles) require boats to be registered / licensed and insured. Requires all boat insurance policies (even if only liability) to include recovery and disposal costs. Require boats to display a registration and an insurance sticker. Boats without registration or insurance are towed and impounded (just like a car) until the issue is resolved. Add a 10% surcharge to boat registrations for an uninsured derelict removal fund. Then turn the state marine police loose.

Ted

I think Ted's got some good ideas. I'd add a slightly different spin...

The waterways are indeed a public resource, and the states are charged with holding them in the public trust. Rights of navigation, which existed long before the constitution, are further reinforced by it.

Waterways, and waterway navigation, are a little different than roads. Roads were built by some government, which has a certain amount of say over who may use them.

So how do we deal with the derelicts while protecting and preserving our rights of navigation? Extra fees on a minority like "rich boaters" tend to attract abuse and corruption. I like the idea of an insurance requirement, but it would have to be carefully crafted to avoid overreach and expansion.

There are a lot of great ideas out there. What seems to be missing is political will.

 

[FF]

"So what happens when states get tired of the eyesore and the taxpayers refuse to fund the cleanup of somebody else’s mess? Seems to me that the only answer then is a disposal bond of sufficient size to pay for the proper disposal of any and all watercraft."


DEBTORS PRISON?, a traditional solution.


"I like the idea of an insurance requirement, but it would have to be carefully crafted to avoid overreach and expansion."


Fat chance , look at health insurance, 75 year old women still pay for "maternity coverage".