Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-23-2020, 03:21 PM   #1
Member
 
City: L.A.
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 8
Ford Lehman survey issue help

Looking to purchase an 83 Grand Banks Motor Yacht with twin Ford Lehman 120 engines.
During the engine inspection evidence of coolant leakage was discovered coming from the Head Gasket area. I also noticed that the current owner had a carton stored in the engine room that had at least 5 gallon jugs of premixed coolant stored. The mechanic said that coolant leaks for the Ford Lehman 120 diesels are common and specifically that the head gasket leaks were minor and not worth chasing down to repair. He explained that the engine has a design flaw that can lead to these small leaks. Sounds strange to me but I am not familiar with these engines. The large quantity of stored, pre-mixed coolant also bothers me and I am wondering if I am getting played a bit on this issue. Would appreciate any advice or comments.
__________________
Advertisement

Wild Goose Loose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 03:54 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
6-Pack's Avatar
 
City: Everett, Wa
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 201
Following
__________________

6-Pack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 04:10 PM   #3
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 10,558
Call Brian at American Diesel. He is THE guru on FL engines. His father was involved with marinizing the Ford engines and then started AD. 804-435-3107. He is very willing and capable to help.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you arenít one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 04:32 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
City: Jacksonville, FL
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 79
Seems like horse shit!

Leak oil, yeah, but coolant...!

My Sp275 only loose coolant if a hose isnít tight enough.

In addition to Brian, you can also ask the folks on the Grand Banks Ownerís website.

Google it.
hytedin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 04:33 PM   #5
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport north of Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,735
Coming from 29 years of maintaining a pair of those beauties, I am going to raise my voice a little so cover your ears. GET ANOTHER MECHANIC BECAUSE THAT GUY IS FULL OF SH__! Any FL120 doing that needs serious attention.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 05:29 PM   #6
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,869
Greetings,
Mr. WGL. I've never heard of any "design flaw" that precipitated head gasket leakage on the Lehman 120. That being said, I am NOT a mechanic. The "large quantity of pre-mixed coolant doesn't really bother me, at all. Presently, I have 5 gallons of Auto Transmission Fluid, 5 gallons of SAE 30 oil and 3 gallons of pre-mixed AF aboard in anticipation of fluid changes (as soon as this COVID business is over and done with).
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 05:40 PM   #7
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,986
Coolant leaking from the head gasket is NOT normal or acceptable as a “known” issue.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 05:50 PM   #8
Guru
 
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,098
I have never heard of any design flaw in heads. If some previous owner removed the head and didn't torque it down properly, or overheated the engine, the head may be warped. There would be a noticeable leak once you reached operating temp. It could drain to the exterior, or into a cylinder resulting in a lot of steam out of the exhaust while running. A warped head needs to be repaired.

Removing the head is a straight forward job for anyone with some mechanical experience If you are limited to changing the oil annually, then get some quotes. (If I removed the head on a high hour engine I would be tempted to do a valve job at the same time.)

I also keep a few gallons of pre-mix on board along with ATF and Rotella.
SoWhat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 06:11 PM   #9
Newbie
 
City: Arnold
Vessel Name: The Brown Pelican
Vessel Model: 1975 34 foot CHB sedan
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 4
I have had my boat for 4 months now and I have done extensive research on the 120ís. I have never heard of a design flaw of this type. The 120ís are pretty much bulletproof, if you keep them maintained. I have over 4,600 hours on mine. I would ask another mechanic about that. Or, yes call American Diesel they are the best!
Pirate-t is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 06:18 PM   #10
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,752
It might not be the head gasket. There is a metal tube leading down, I think from the header tank(not sure now-sold boat and engine manual with it), which gets eaten away over time, so the rubber hose can`t be clamped adequately, and it leaks. It`s just at head height and led to coolant appearing in the head/block joint. Looked so much like head gasket leak I bought one, but never used it. You replace the failing tube by welding on a fresh section, it`s aluminum I think. This happened to both my engines so I assume it`s a known occurrence.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 07:25 PM   #11
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport north of Panama City
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
It might not be the head gasket. There is a metal tube leading down, I think from the header tank(not sure now-sold boat and engine manual with it), which gets eaten away over time, so the rubber hose can`t be clamped adequately, and it leaks. It`s just at head height and led to coolant appearing in the head/block joint. Looked so much like head gasket leak I bought one, but never used it. You replace the failing tube by welding on a fresh section, it`s aluminum I think. This happened to both my engines so I assume it`s a known occurrence.
If the engines have been properly updated, that tube from the expansion tank was plugged when the new filler neck accommodating a double-acting radiator cap (the original was not DA) with a recovery bottle attached via hose to the new neck's tube fitting.

At my current stage in life, I'd likely be walking away from this vessel. Engines need to be perfect for me to buy.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 06:53 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Cruising Sea Venture's Avatar
 
City: Everett, Washington
Vessel Name: Sea Venture
Vessel Model: 54' Cheoy Lee LRT
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 107
We have owned and operated 120's for 20 years, with 10,000 hours now and 70,000 NM's of travel and I have never heard of a design problem causing a coolant leak? I don't think so.

Calling Brian is a great idea.

You didn't mention if, and if so where, the leak was? You will see 120's leak some coolant at higher RPM's on the port side of the head gasket just above the starter. If that's the case I'd look at the head bolt torque, but it may be warped. Did it show up a specific RPM?

Good luck,
Jim
M/V Sea Venture
Cruising Sea Venture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 07:16 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: CHiTON
Vessel Model: Tung Hwa Clipper 30
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 260
My PO had a suspect amount of antifreeze onboard. Sure enough, I had to top off about every 5 hours. I couldn't find the right fittings to do a pressure test, so I just bought a new cap. Mine isn't the double acting "upgrade" system. The new cap only helped a little. Turns out that the old heater hose to the hot water tank had "checked" within a few inches of the tank connection and sweated out coolant once the system got hot and up to pressure. I replaced that and haven't added coolant for the last 200 hours. Don't expect to.

My simple little problem was $100 and a few hours of diagnosis and repair (i.e., screwing around). Evidence of coolant leakage from the head could multiply that by 20. I would definitely get a second opinion. Then, if I was still interested in the boat, I'd get a third opinion (a tentative quote) from a shop that could do the repair.
__________________
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2020, 07:17 PM   #14
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2,127
Bob Senter of Northern Lights/Lugger/John Deere Marine Propulsion is one of my marine mentors. He once told me there is no such thing as am acceptable leak of any fluid. Diesel, coolant, raw water, oil, etc. None, zero, nada.

You cannot go wrong with that advice. You bear 100% of the risk of your mechanic is wrong. And he is. A head gasket leak on a diesel is a bad sign. There is no way to spin it as normal.

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 05:19 PM   #15
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,728
Surveyor poppycock!
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 08:27 PM   #16
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C.
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: xxxx
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,210
As far as carrying extra coolant that is only good practice.
Not only do I carry extra mixed coolant I also carry one oil change worth of oil.
Of course just how much is up to each owner.

As far as leaks at the head gasket ar concerned the comments , at least to me, are haywire.
Not normal.

However before writing the engine off be absolutely positive it is a head gasket leak. It may not be at all. If a nearby hose clamp is loose or a hose questionable maybe they provided the coolant.

Get another mechanic.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 10:17 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
bgillroy's Avatar
 
City: Marathon, FL & On Loop
Vessel Name: Maka Honu
Vessel Model: Ta Yang, 42 Tayana PH Trawler 1976
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 258
We have ,twin le120 no coolant leaks....add maybe pint to plastic expansion res very infrequently. That much coolant means problems.
bgillroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 10:39 PM   #18
Guru
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,662
I had a FL120 coolant leak only after a long run. Finally traced it to a leak at the buss heater attachment. Need to change hose. Water was not visible until had a look in behind heater. SB coolant goes through hot water tank and the buss heater. After isolating both no more loss of water.
__________________
SteveK
You only need one working engine.
That is why I have two.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 01:24 AM   #19
Veteran Member
 
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Angelena
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 32-309
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 31
Coolant leaks are not common on any Diesel engine and definitely not on a FL 120 ( I own one). Yes it sounds as if you are being played.
Willin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2020, 01:58 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Bryant's Avatar
 
City: Fleming Island, Fl
Vessel Name: Sakura Perdido
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 487
FL 120 coolant leaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose Loose View Post
Looking to purchase an 83 Grand Banks Motor Yacht with twin Ford Lehman 120 engines.
During the engine inspection evidence of coolant leakage was discovered coming from the Head Gasket area. I also noticed that the current owner had a carton stored in the engine room that had at least 5 gallon jugs of premixed coolant stored. The mechanic said that coolant leaks for the Ford Lehman 120 diesels are common and specifically that the head gasket leaks were minor and not worth chasing down to repair. He explained that the engine has a design flaw that can lead to these small leaks. Sounds strange to me but I am not familiar with these engines. The large quantity of stored, pre-mixed coolant also bothers me and I am wondering if I am getting played a bit on this issue. Would appreciate any advice or comments.
"Played" is a kind word for what you are getting here. The advice to call Brian at AD is great advice. Another asset is Grand Banks Yacht Basin in Stuart, Fl. They are a GB repair facility and can probably help as well. But in any case, coolant leaking from the head gasket on an FL 120 is anything but normal. A well maintained FL 120 will provide well over 10,000 hrs of svc. Sounds like this one has not been well maintained.
__________________

Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×