flybridge enclosure

[warren]

Hi,
why do so many trawlers have the full flybridge enclosures?
I'm more of a pilot house trawler guy.(don't like full sun)
The windage , expense and appearance for full 'Bag' enclosures puts me off such boats.
I understand the need for weather protection but that's what the Pilot house or lower helm station is for.
What am I missing?
many thanks warren

 

[TJM]

Great question but I am afraid the answer is totally owner dependent.
Our boat came with full enclosures all around on both levels. After one year of looking thru plastic they all came off and I will never have them again. I dress for the occasion and seldom drive from below.

 

[Engineman3rd]

My Jefferson does not have a lower helm. I wish I had a hard enclosure for bad weather

 

[Choices]

I don't know where you live, but the Gulf Coast is really flying bridge territory. You can see so much more, and the weather is usually favorable. Ours bridge is very large, and the place to be.

Being inside is kind of like driving a bus.

 

[warren]

thanks for replies,
I'm east coast US looking to cruise E.coast and hopefully Bahamas.
Chartered a President 41 type only used the open flybridge twice.
yes views would makes sense but not looking thru plastic!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

In the PNW, there is a lot of logs and trash in the water. I can't see over the lower helm, thus the logs. I am fully enclosed and don't think of it as a "bag."

 

[jungpeter]

"Hi, ...

What am I missing?
many thanks warren"

Hi Warren. Well, more than meets the casual eye. In particular, each boat matches each individual's needs and wants. Nothing more. There are no "universal truths" in the boating world. If so, we'd all operate exactly the same boats. Obviously, ain't so. Some of us like to operate in the open air, some don't. Some of us like pilothouse vessels, some don't. Some locations promote open air operation, some don't. Some of us are sun sensitive, some aren't. Ad Nauseum.

And, some boats simply are designed as "flying bridge-centric" boats, and some are designed as "pilothouse (or saloon)-centric" boats. It's pretty easy to tell which are which, if you know how (and where) to look.

Size isn't a good indicator. I've owned 40' boats (a Pacific Trawler) which, while it had a flying bridge, was distinctly a pilothouse boat, particularly here in the PNW. All nav gear was in the house, all heating and air conditioning was in the house, access to the galley and head was in the house, the visibility was excellent, etc. Yes, it had a flying bridge, which could be fully enclosed if so desired, and all nav gear and HVAC could be duplicated topside. All at great expense, with no "value-added", at least to me. And that's the key. Value added to ME. Obviously, your mileage may differ.

I've also owned two significantly larger powerboats (a Canoe Cove (CC) 53 and a Tolly 48), both with flying bridges, and lower helm stations. As the CC had a particularly comfortable lower helm station, with all the aforementioned amenities, I very seldom operated from the flying bridge, even in Southern California, where I operated for many, many years, even when I thought I was invincible to the evil of skin cancer.

My latest boat is a Tolly 48. While it is designed with a lower helm station, there is no provision for lower helm seating. I either use a portable helm seat, or stand up, should the weather preclude operation from topside. It is assuredly a "flying bridge-centric" boat, by design. So, to retain comfort and safety while almost universally operating my Tolly from the flying bridge has required significant expense to fully enclose the bridge, and duplicate nav equipment topside as well. And it means using the head, or grabbing a sandwich, or looking up a cruising guide reference, etc. requires a relief helmsman to execute. And looking through plastic. You want a Tolly 48? You'll look through plastic.

All boats are a compromise. And only yours to make.

Regards,

Pete

 

[sunchaser]

The Lexan on our Stamoid enclosure remains as clear as glass. Our lower helm has great sight lines too, so we pick our spot based upon weather and sea state.

We've a friend with a Nordhavn 55. The enclosed fly bridge is his preferred place to be. As JP says, lots of options and different preferences.

 

[Amadeus]

If you are doing the Great Loop and like operating from the fly bridge, an enclosed area with screens is a necessity less you get eaten alive by various opportunistic insects.

Personally, on a Defever 68 and a Diesel Duck 55 I virtually never conned the boat from the flybridge unless I was coming into an new harbor or anchorage that was shallow and the water was clear. And once crossing the S. China Sea when we lost the hydraulic steering the mechanical backup was the flybridge helm.

 

[MYTraveler]

When I spec'd our current boat, I chose not to have the flybridge enclosed, although it is otherwise a fully-functional flybridge (all electronics available at both the PH and FB helms, with 4 large displays each). My thinking was that on really nice days, I would run mostly from the FB and would not want an enclosure on those days, while at night and on cold days we would prefer to run from the PH, even if the FB were enclosed. And in practice, we have never missed an enclosure. The only surprise is that on those really nice days, we often run from the tower.

 

[warren]

In the PNW, there is a lot of logs and trash in the water. I can't see over the lower helm, thus the logs. I am fully enclosed and don't think of it as a "bag."

thanks, thats certainly good reasons to get the best view and with the variable weather in PNW it makes sense

 

[warren]

Hi Warren. Well, more than meets the casual eye. In particular, each boat matches each individual's needs and wants. Nothing more. There are no "universal truths" in the boating world. If so, we'd all operate exactly the same boats. Obviously, ain't so. Some of us like to operate in the open air, some don't. Some of us like pilothouse vessels, some don't. Some locations promote open air operation, some don't. Some of us are sun sensitive, some aren't. Ad Nauseum.

And, some boats simply are designed as "flying bridge-centric" boats, and some are designed as "pilothouse (or saloon)-centric" boats. It's pretty easy to tell which are which, if you know how (and where) to look.

Size isn't a good indicator. I've owned 40' boats (a Pacific Trawler) which, while it had a flying bridge, was distinctly a pilothouse boat, particularly here in the PNW. All nav gear was in the house, all heating and air conditioning was in the house, access to the galley and head was in the house, the visibility was excellent, etc. Yes, it had a flying bridge, which could be fully enclosed if so desired, and all nav gear and HVAC could be duplicated topside. All at great expense, with no "value-added", at least to me. And that's the key. Value added to ME. Obviously, your mileage may differ.

I've also owned two significantly larger powerboats (a Canoe Cove (CC) 53 and a Tolly 48), both with flying bridges, and lower helm stations. As the CC had a particularly comfortable lower helm station, with all the aforementioned amenities, I very seldom operated from the flying bridge, even in Southern California, where I operated for many, many years, even when I thought I was invincible to the evil of skin cancer.

My latest boat is a Tolly 48. While it is designed with a lower helm station, there is no provision for lower helm seating. I either use a portable helm seat, or stand up, should the weather preclude operation from topside. It is assuredly a "flying bridge-centric" boat, by design. So, to retain comfort and safety while almost universally operating my Tolly from the flying bridge has required significant expense to fully enclose the bridge, and duplicate nav equipment topside as well. And it means using the head, or grabbing a sandwich, or looking up a cruising guide reference, etc. requires a relief helmsman to execute. And looking through plastic. You want a Tolly 48? You'll look through plastic.

All boats are a compromise. And only yours to make.

Regards,

Pete

i appreciate your thoughts , it defiantly vary with the boat and conditions you are in..it had not occurred to me that a trawler would not have a lower helm position without seating! 40 yeas ago i was building Sport fisherman(vikings) and could not believe they did not have lower helm !stations!

warren

 

[warren]

If you are doing the Great Loop and like operating from the fly bridge, an enclosed area with screens is a necessity less you get eaten alive by various opportunistic insects.

Personally, on a Defever 68 and a Diesel Duck 55 I virtually never conned the boat from the flybridge unless I was coming into an new harbor or anchorage that was shallow and the water was clear. And once crossing the S. China Sea when we lost the hydraulic steering the mechanical backup was the flybridge helm.

wow! had not even though about an attach of insects as a reason!
warren

 

[Pete Meisinger]

On the Great Lakes i would not be without my flybridge steering station. If we are cruising, 99% of the time we are on top. The Admiral occasionally likes the bimini up but I usually prefer 'full sun". I wouldn't have an enclosure if you offered me one for free. It would be the first thing I got rid of an a boat. Give me LOTS of air and sunshine!

pete

 

[sailormike]

on ours the fly-bridge has the most room and most of the time is very comfortable temp wise. The almost 360 view is good too. our lower station doesnt have the visibility nor comfort to run in. you barely hear the engine on the fb but it is fairly loud in the cabin.

 

[rgano]

I was on a delivery in the middle of winter running from Texas to Alabama. We were forced to run the boat the last day right through the night as a front came through blowing all the water out of the Mississippi Sound closing off safe harbors to us; we just kept going. The flying bridge was enclosed on the forward face and sides only, AND the radar console was up there. Otherwise, we could have piloted from below. Winds were pretty sporty in that cold air from the port bow, and we pretty well froze up there. Had there been no enclosure, I just don't know.... The boat's electronics have since been arranged such that radar can be viewed from upper and lower stations.

I inherited an enclosure on my trawler and kept it through the decades I owned the boat largely to protect all of the hard and soft boat gear up there from the elements. It was useless in rain because the droplets collecting on the clear vinyl made forward visibility impossible. My preference for cruising was 90-plus percent of the time at the more comfortable lower station. Backing into a slip was generally done from the upper station, but sometimes in benign conditions I just stayed below, often single-handed.

So this is just another district heard from as the OP gathers info.

 

[DrissZougari]

The best place in a boat is the bridge while cruising in nice days. comfortable, best views and no engine noises.

 

[Skip Sunnell]

Quite often I find the urge to spend an overnighted away from my home port. I use the fly bridge more often because there is more room and visibility. Flotsam in heavy weather can show up out of nowhere. Even on colder, windy days, my closed fly bridge is warm if there is any sun out. I agree though, that on warm summer days, a simple Bimini is very comfortable. On those days I simply roll up the aft doorway entrance and the front windows.

 

[High Wire]

We had just a bimini when we bought Irish Lady in FL. We have a lower helm for the occasional rain storm or cold day. Its ok for that. But when we decided to head north to Canada we wanted more weather protection. Beats a windbreaker when that cold fog and rain comes all day. Worth every penny when transiting the East Coast in Spring.
So if I had a true pilothouse, no I would not go for the expense of a full enclosure.

 

[ranger58sb]

Hi,
why do so many trawlers have the full flybridge enclosures?
I'm more of a pilot house trawler guy.(don't like full sun)
The windage , expense and appearance for full 'Bag' enclosures puts me off such boats.
I understand the need for weather protection but that's what the Pilot house or lower helm station is for.
What am I missing?
many thanks warren

thanks for replies,
I'm east coast US looking to cruise E.coast and hopefully Bahamas.
Chartered a President 41 type only used the open flybridge twice.
yes views would makes sense but not looking thru plastic!

Visibility is often better from a flybridge. And then many boats don't have a lower helm.

If your experience was looking through old, worn out roll-ups...

There's "plastic" and then there's "plastic." Ours used Makrolon for the front panels, clear as glass... and we had relatively new Regalite for sides and aft, generally pretty good for seeing thru.

-Chris

 

[TWedd]

I love our enclosed fly bridge, front and sides with rear open. When under way I roll up the front panels if weather permitting. When not underway the 3 sides provide protection from wind, and on cool sunny days the greenhouse effect makes it warm and comfortable. always drive from the bridge due to poor vis from lower helm.

 

[TBill36]

You mentioned cruising the Bahamas. Most of the time you will be on a bank that is 15 to 20 feet deep. There are numerous sandbars and coral heads. Height from the flybridge greatly improves visibility. You can drop the curtain when it rains and stay up there. Also the enclosure keeps things cleaner and less salt washed when cruising so electronics and instruments stay less exposed to the elements.

 

[warren]

We had just a bimini when we bought Irish Lady in FL. We have a lower helm for the occasional rain storm or cold day. Its ok for that. But when we decided to head north to Canada we wanted more weather protection. Beats a windbreaker when that cold fog and rain comes all day. Worth every penny when transiting the East Coast in Spring.
So if I had a true pilothouse, no I would not go for the expense of a full enclosure.

thank you Archie,
a monk 36 is on a short list for me, but I do notice the lower helm is very much a steering position in the salon. I did a cruise on a small Nordic tug and the pilot-house was very much a nice place to be.
sounds like you do not find the Monk lower helm ideal?
i can see the attraction of a fly-bridge , visibility , views etc but the bag part just puts me off. i could see an fly bridge for the right conditions but a good lower helm/ pilot house for everything else .
not sure the flybridge needs the complication of all the extra repeaters too.
cheers warren

 

[warren]

I was on a delivery in the middle of winter running from Texas to Alabama. We were forced to run the boat the last day right through the night as a front came through blowing all the water out of the Mississippi Sound closing off safe harbors to us; we just kept going. The flying bridge was enclosed on the forward face and sides only, AND the radar console was up there. Otherwise, we could have piloted from below. Winds were pretty sporty in that cold air from the port bow, and we pretty well froze up there. Had there been no enclosure, I just don't know.... The boat's electronics have since been arranged such that radar can be viewed from upper and lower stations.

I inherited an enclosure on my trawler and kept it through the decades I owned the boat largely to protect all of the hard and soft boat gear up there from the elements. It was useless in rain because the droplets collecting on the clear vinyl made forward visibility impossible. My preference for cruising was 90-plus percent of the time at the more comfortable lower station. Backing into a slip was generally done from the upper station, but sometimes in benign conditions I just stayed below, often single-handed.

So this is just another district heard from as the OP gathers info.

if I'm not going to be in a sailboat I don't need to be in the ugly weather for sure! I think a good pilot house type steering position and a flybridge for the fun stuff only is my leaning , thanks

 

[ghost]

Hi Warren. Well, more than meets the casual eye. In particular, each boat matches each individual's needs and wants. Nothing more. There are no "universal truths" in the boating world. If so, we'd all operate exactly the same boats. Obviously, ain't so. Some of us like to operate in the open air, some don't. Some of us like pilothouse vessels, some don't. Some locations promote open air operation, some don't. Some of us are sun sensitive, some aren't. Ad Nauseum.



And, some boats simply are designed as "flying bridge-centric" boats, and some are designed as "pilothouse (or saloon)-centric" boats. It's pretty easy to tell which are which, if you know how (and where) to look.



Size isn't a good indicator. I've owned 40' boats (a Pacific Trawler) which, while it had a flying bridge, was distinctly a pilothouse boat, particularly here in the PNW. All nav gear was in the house, all heating and air conditioning was in the house, access to the galley and head was in the house, the visibility was excellent, etc. Yes, it had a flying bridge, which could be fully enclosed if so desired, and all nav gear and HVAC could be duplicated topside. All at great expense, with no "value-added", at least to me. And that's the key. Value added to ME. Obviously, your mileage may differ.



I've also owned two significantly larger powerboats (a Canoe Cove (CC) 53 and a Tolly 48), both with flying bridges, and lower helm stations. As the CC had a particularly comfortable lower helm station, with all the aforementioned amenities, I very seldom operated from the flying bridge, even in Southern California, where I operated for many, many years, even when I thought I was invincible to the evil of skin cancer.



My latest boat is a Tolly 48. While it is designed with a lower helm station, there is no provision for lower helm seating. I either use a portable helm seat, or stand up, should the weather preclude operation from topside. It is assuredly a "flying bridge-centric" boat, by design. So, to retain comfort and safety while almost universally operating my Tolly from the flying bridge has required significant expense to fully enclose the bridge, and duplicate nav equipment topside as well. And it means using the head, or grabbing a sandwich, or looking up a cruising guide reference, etc. requires a relief helmsman to execute. And looking through plastic. You want a Tolly 48? You'll look through plastic.



All boats are a compromise. And only yours to make.



Regards,



Pete

I put on a wool sweater and a hat. I use a captains chair at the lower helm.

How did you feel the CC compared with the Tolly? Always thought CC built a nice boat, but cosmetically sometimes too angular for me. I have a hard time trading to something without the 48 hull at this point, just like how she handles.

 

[Njlarry]

Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.

 

[ranger58sb]

Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.

The Makrolon was as good as glass.

The Regalite -- roll-up-able (?) stuff -- was very good.

There are other brand names with similar qualities (EZ2CY instead of Makrolon, Stratoglass instead of Regalite, etc.) but those two are the only ones I've had recent experience with. OTOH, I'd imagine all are similar. Especially when well cared for.

-Chris

 

[TBill36]

I had Makrolon that started craze cracking at 3 years and by 5 years had to be replaced. I've read other reviews that said it was good as new after 12 years. I live in South Florida and the boat is parked facing east. I did find one other complaint that mentioned having similar problems in the south. The company was not responsive and there was apparently no warranty for that line of product. When new it was so clear you could hardly tell if it was up or down.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.

Rain-X is your friend!

BTW, we never used our flybridge much until we enclosed it. Sitting in the wind for 8 or more hours a day was just too tiring. Now we can regulate the airflow by which panels we open.

 

[Swa]

I cant imagine not having one for reasons mentioned above. It also has a cup holder and serves me well when I need to get away from you know who