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Old 02-13-2021, 07:40 AM   #21
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I love our enclosed fly bridge, front and sides with rear open. When under way I roll up the front panels if weather permitting. When not underway the 3 sides provide protection from wind, and on cool sunny days the greenhouse effect makes it warm and comfortable. always drive from the bridge due to poor vis from lower helm.
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Old 02-13-2021, 08:39 AM   #22
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You mentioned cruising the Bahamas. Most of the time you will be on a bank that is 15 to 20 feet deep. There are numerous sandbars and coral heads. Height from the flybridge greatly improves visibility. You can drop the curtain when it rains and stay up there. Also the enclosure keeps things cleaner and less salt washed when cruising so electronics and instruments stay less exposed to the elements.
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Old 02-18-2021, 10:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
We had just a bimini when we bought Irish Lady in FL. We have a lower helm for the occasional rain storm or cold day. Its ok for that. But when we decided to head north to Canada we wanted more weather protection. Beats a windbreaker when that cold fog and rain comes all day. Worth every penny when transiting the East Coast in Spring.
So if I had a true pilothouse, no I would not go for the expense of a full enclosure.
thank you Archie,
a monk 36 is on a short list for me, but I do notice the lower helm is very much a steering position in the salon. I did a cruise on a small Nordic tug and the pilot-house was very much a nice place to be.
sounds like you do not find the Monk lower helm ideal?
i can see the attraction of a fly-bridge , visibility , views etc but the bag part just puts me off. i could see an fly bridge for the right conditions but a good lower helm/ pilot house for everything else .
not sure the flybridge needs the complication of all the extra repeaters too.
cheers warren
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Old 02-18-2021, 10:52 AM   #24
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I was on a delivery in the middle of winter running from Texas to Alabama. We were forced to run the boat the last day right through the night as a front came through blowing all the water out of the Mississippi Sound closing off safe harbors to us; we just kept going. The flying bridge was enclosed on the forward face and sides only, AND the radar console was up there. Otherwise, we could have piloted from below. Winds were pretty sporty in that cold air from the port bow, and we pretty well froze up there. Had there been no enclosure, I just don't know.... The boat's electronics have since been arranged such that radar can be viewed from upper and lower stations.

I inherited an enclosure on my trawler and kept it through the decades I owned the boat largely to protect all of the hard and soft boat gear up there from the elements. It was useless in rain because the droplets collecting on the clear vinyl made forward visibility impossible. My preference for cruising was 90-plus percent of the time at the more comfortable lower station. Backing into a slip was generally done from the upper station, but sometimes in benign conditions I just stayed below, often single-handed.

So this is just another district heard from as the OP gathers info.
if I'm not going to be in a sailboat I don't need to be in the ugly weather for sure! I think a good pilot house type steering position and a flybridge for the fun stuff only is my leaning , thanks
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Old 02-18-2021, 03:05 PM   #25
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Hi Warren. Well, more than meets the casual eye. In particular, each boat matches each individual's needs and wants. Nothing more. There are no "universal truths" in the boating world. If so, we'd all operate exactly the same boats. Obviously, ain't so. Some of us like to operate in the open air, some don't. Some of us like pilothouse vessels, some don't. Some locations promote open air operation, some don't. Some of us are sun sensitive, some aren't. Ad Nauseum.



And, some boats simply are designed as "flying bridge-centric" boats, and some are designed as "pilothouse (or saloon)-centric" boats. It's pretty easy to tell which are which, if you know how (and where) to look.



Size isn't a good indicator. I've owned 40' boats (a Pacific Trawler) which, while it had a flying bridge, was distinctly a pilothouse boat, particularly here in the PNW. All nav gear was in the house, all heating and air conditioning was in the house, access to the galley and head was in the house, the visibility was excellent, etc. Yes, it had a flying bridge, which could be fully enclosed if so desired, and all nav gear and HVAC could be duplicated topside. All at great expense, with no "value-added", at least to me. And that's the key. Value added to ME. Obviously, your mileage may differ.



I've also owned two significantly larger powerboats (a Canoe Cove (CC) 53 and a Tolly 48), both with flying bridges, and lower helm stations. As the CC had a particularly comfortable lower helm station, with all the aforementioned amenities, I very seldom operated from the flying bridge, even in Southern California, where I operated for many, many years, even when I thought I was invincible to the evil of skin cancer.



My latest boat is a Tolly 48. While it is designed with a lower helm station, there is no provision for lower helm seating. I either use a portable helm seat, or stand up, should the weather preclude operation from topside. It is assuredly a "flying bridge-centric" boat, by design. So, to retain comfort and safety while almost universally operating my Tolly from the flying bridge has required significant expense to fully enclose the bridge, and duplicate nav equipment topside as well. And it means using the head, or grabbing a sandwich, or looking up a cruising guide reference, etc. requires a relief helmsman to execute. And looking through plastic. You want a Tolly 48? You'll look through plastic.



All boats are a compromise. And only yours to make.



Regards,



Pete


I put on a wool sweater and a hat. I use a captains chair at the lower helm.

How did you feel the CC compared with the Tolly? Always thought CC built a nice boat, but cosmetically sometimes too angular for me. I have a hard time trading to something without the 48 hull at this point, just like how she handles.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:03 AM   #26
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Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.
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Old 02-20-2021, 06:19 AM   #27
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Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.
The Makrolon was as good as glass.

The Regalite -- roll-up-able (?) stuff -- was very good.

There are other brand names with similar qualities (EZ2CY instead of Makrolon, Stratoglass instead of Regalite, etc.) but those two are the only ones I've had recent experience with. OTOH, I'd imagine all are similar. Especially when well cared for.

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Old 02-20-2021, 06:52 AM   #28
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I had Makrolon that started craze cracking at 3 years and by 5 years had to be replaced. I've read other reviews that said it was good as new after 12 years. I live in South Florida and the boat is parked facing east. I did find one other complaint that mentioned having similar problems in the south. The company was not responsive and there was apparently no warranty for that line of product. When new it was so clear you could hardly tell if it was up or down.
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Njlarry View Post
Ranger, how is the visibility through rain with the two materials? Thank you.
Rain-X is your friend!

BTW, we never used our flybridge much until we enclosed it. Sitting in the wind for 8 or more hours a day was just too tiring. Now we can regulate the airflow by which panels we open.
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Old 02-20-2021, 09:08 AM   #30
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I cant imagine not having one for reasons mentioned above. It also has a cup holder and serves me well when I need to get away from you know who
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBill36 View Post
You mentioned cruising the Bahamas. Most of the time you will be on a bank that is 15 to 20 feet deep. There are numerous sandbars and coral heads. Height from the flybridge greatly improves visibility. You can drop the curtain when it rains and stay up there. Also the enclosure keeps things cleaner and less salt washed when cruising so electronics and instruments stay less exposed to the elements.




I've found our strataglass to be difficult to keep up, after 5 years ours is already getting hard to see through despite my babying it and following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter using their proprietary cleaning products.



That said, I wouldn't be without an enclosure for the reasons others have stated. I think I've used my lower helm for less than 4 hours in the 8 years we have owned the boat. When I redid our electronics 2 years ago I seriously considered not putting any electronics down there at all. In the end I installed a very basic 5" sounder/gps combo which I bring home and use on my flats boat when not using the big boat.


Our canvas guy said it would be very difficult to put in a "rigid" front panel (ez2cy or similar) that could open on our boat because we have a soft bimini. I think he feels like there would be nothing to attach it to to hold it open since it can't be rolled. Any thoughts on that?
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Old 02-20-2021, 10:38 AM   #32
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Dougcole, The front of our 430 enclosure is divided into three sections (Makrolon). The middle section folds up and is held by straps with snaps that are attached to the second bow. Same with both sides and the back section next to the door.
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:40 AM   #33
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thank you Archie,
a monk 36 is on a short list for me, but I do notice the lower helm is very much a steering position in the salon. I did a cruise on a small Nordic tug and the pilot-house was very much a nice place to be.
sounds like you do not find the Monk lower helm ideal?
i can see the attraction of a fly-bridge , visibility , views etc but the bag part just puts me off. i could see an fly bridge for the right conditions but a good lower helm/ pilot house for everything else .
not sure the flybridge needs the complication of all the extra repeaters too.
cheers warren
Like almost everything on a boat, you have to compromise based on your likes. Every aspect has pluses and minuses. Thats why there are hundreds of different models of boats and you get to choose the one you want.
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Old 02-20-2021, 12:27 PM   #34
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No flybridge. Less motion. No long ladders/stairs. Less expense. Less distance from galley. Less exposure to the elements. Safer.
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Old 02-20-2021, 12:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post



I've found our strataglass to be difficult to keep up, after 5 years ours is already getting hard to see through despite my babying it and following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter using their proprietary cleaning products.



That said, I wouldn't be without an enclosure for the reasons others have stated. I think I've used my lower helm for less than 4 hours in the 8 years we have owned the boat. When I redid our electronics 2 years ago I seriously considered not putting any electronics down there at all. In the end I installed a very basic 5" sounder/gps combo which I bring home and use on my flats boat when not using the big boat.


Our canvas guy said it would be very difficult to put in a "rigid" front panel (ez2cy or similar) that could open on our boat because we have a soft bimini. I think he feels like there would be nothing to attach it to to hold it open since it can't be rolled. Any thoughts on that?

It is pretty easy to hinge semi rigid panels up. We had EZ2CY panels made for the front and first side panel on our bridge. I put twist lock fasteners in the bottom of the panels and they hinge up to attach to some straps around the bimini bow. I used 2” Sunbrella facing to make the straps that go around the bimini bow. Works great and is simple to do. We do have a hardtop on the bridge but it would work just as well with a regular bimini top. In the photo you can see the straps hanging from the bimini bow. Also on the left 2 panels you can see the hole side of the snaps on the bottom of the panels. I have the middle 3 panels hinged so they can open or close. The right most panel and the first panel on the side are stationary and do not open. We had the 5 panels across the front and the first panel on each side made out of EZ2CY and the rest of the enclosure is Regalite. The EZ2CY is wonderful to look through, just like glass. We clean and treat it with Sumner 210 spray wax. It helps the water bead up and run off and cleans the panels too. It is what the fabricator of the EZ2CY said to use and it is really easy and fast to use.
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Old 02-21-2021, 07:09 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TBill36 View Post
I had Makrolon that started craze cracking at 3 years and by 5 years had to be replaced. I've read other reviews that said it was good as new after 12 years. I live in South Florida and the boat is parked facing east. I did find one other complaint that mentioned having similar problems in the south. The company was not responsive and there was apparently no warranty for that line of product. When new it was so clear you could hardly tell if it was up or down.
Our first Makrolon panels (front three) went on in 2009, and they were still very good -- but not perfect, toward the end -- until we replaced them in 2019. Over the years they did get some scratches, mostly from cleaning (not me) with inappropriate materials and products. The effect was a bit of hazing that caught sunlight at certain angles (relative to the sun) and could be slightly dazzling for a few minutes at that angle... but otherwise visibility was still as clear as glass.

Makrolon's warranty at the time, for that product, was only 1 year, I think. Or maybe 3, not sure since the issue didn't arise.

The new stuff we put on last was Markolon Marine 5, a newer formulation I guess, better warranty IIRC...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Rain-X is your friend!
Not quite. Depends on the enclosure product. Whatever we've had usually says NO RAINEX.

Many of these come with specific recommendations for cleaning products; Stratoglass for instance recommends micro-fleece rags and only IMAR 301 and 302, and several others say "use what Stratoglass recommends."

IOW, cleaning and care depends on what specific stuff the various see-through panels are made of.

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Old 02-21-2021, 07:39 AM   #37
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The flybridge on our boat is an extension of the sundeck. It's outside space. Bimini only if it's really hot. If we want to be cooped up, we go below (where there is a lower station for inclement weather). For us, boating is not an indoor activity. When in the slip, we enjoy the excellent 360* view from topside. That view is obliterated when (typically looper) boats with (often ratty) bags park in adjacent slips....canvas canyon time. We don't like canvas on our boat (I removed it), and we really don't like it on other people's boats. Of course they could not care less...

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Old 02-21-2021, 08:03 AM   #38
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No flybridge. Less motion. No long ladders/stairs. Less expense. Less distance from galley. Less exposure to the elements. Safer.

Staying at home. No motion at all. Zero sun exposure. Huge galley. Probably no ladders or steep stairs. Safer.


I'm mostly kidding, but you get my point. Everything has its risk and reward.
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:18 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
It is pretty easy to hinge semi rigid panels up. We had EZ2CY panels made for the front and first side panel on our bridge. I put twist lock fasteners in the bottom of the panels and they hinge up to attach to some straps around the bimini bow. I used 2” Sunbrella facing to make the straps that go around the bimini bow. Works great and is simple to do. We do have a hardtop on the bridge but it would work just as well with a regular bimini top. In the photo you can see the straps hanging from the bimini bow. Also on the left 2 panels you can see the hole side of the snaps on the bottom of the panels. I have the middle 3 panels hinged so they can open or close. The right most panel and the first panel on the side are stationary and do not open. We had the 5 panels across the front and the first panel on each side made out of EZ2CY and the rest of the enclosure is Regalite. The EZ2CY is wonderful to look through, just like glass. We clean and treat it with Sumner 210 spray wax. It helps the water bead up and run off and cleans the panels too. It is what the fabricator of the EZ2CY said to use and it is really easy and fast to use.

Thanks Dave. That looks really great and is similar to my plan.


We just replaced the center (of three) front panel on our enclosure with new strataglass as the old one cracked. But the two center side panels are getting cloudy too and look really cloudy adjacent to the new center panel. I'm going to have to do something here in the next 24 months or so. Can of worms.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:05 PM   #40
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Our Cheoy Lee 46 is our first power boat. Previously, I owned two pilothouse sailboats. Like our trawler, each sailboat had two helm stations. The interior helm (for us, anyway) has always been about comfort. They have always been the primary helm, too, with all electronics/navigation close at hand. The exterior stations have always been about being "outside", in nature so to speak. And if it's too hot, wet or windy outside, I go inside. Of course, the visibility from the pilothouse on our trawler is a lot better than it was in the corresponding spaces on my sailboats...

I used to own convertible British roadsters. In the Pacific NW. Hence, I was a fair weather top down driver (although that didn't stop me from driving with the top down on those bright, sunny, yet bone-chillingly cold winter days!) So I guess my experiences driving Triumphs in my 20s and 30s influenced how I drive my boats.

That being said, we have thought about someday installing a retractable bimini top for the flybridge. More often than not it's direct sun that drives back down into the pilothouse.
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