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Old 08-25-2017, 03:41 PM   #21
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Comparing a brand new $3m boat to a year 2000? Makes no sense to me. .
It doesn't need to make sense to you JustBob - it makes sense to me.

Looking at the expensive newer boats in these parts it seems they very rarely get used, their owners probably having to stay at work to keep them on a berth meticulously maintained.

I"d rather buy the rarely used and meticulously maintained version, albeit older, for a fraction of the cost of new , be on the water full time and not have to work.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:01 PM   #22
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It doesn't need to make sense to you JustBob - it makes sense to me.

Looking at the expensive newer boats in these parts it seems they very rarely get used, their owners probably having to stay at work to keep them on a berth meticulously maintained.

I"d rather buy the rarely used and meticulously maintained version, albeit older, for a fraction of the cost of new , be on the water full time and not have to work.
But the depreciation isn't measured by comparing todays price against today's value. Cost when new, 17 years ago, is all that matters. And from what I have seen, Flemings hold up pretty well.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:19 PM   #23
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But the depreciation isn't measured by comparing todays price against today's value.
Depreciation was the wrong word.
De-value would be more appropriate.

They dont lose value as fast compared to other boats but they have still lost value, especially when measured in today's money and adding in other factors like opportunity cost.

I guess what I am saying is I wouldn't consider a new one an "investment" not that anyone said they were, more that they lose money not as fast as others. :-)

$2,300,000 in 2000 = $3,266,000.00 in 2017, not $700,000.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:21 PM   #24
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The schooner is "Lynx". She's a baltimore clipper style tops'l schooner . I have always loved how flemings look on the water.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:24 PM   #25
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Depreciation was the wrong word.
De-value would be more appropriate.

They dont lose value as fast compared to other boats but they have still lost value, especially when measured in today's money and adding in other factors like opportunity cost.
As soon as you figure out how to not "lose" money boating, be sure and let us all know.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:29 PM   #26
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As soon as you figure out how to not "lose" money boating, be sure and let us all know.
Buy buying a well maintained, lightly used boat for a fraction of its build/purchase price and then actually using it.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:47 PM   #27
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Buy buying a well maintained, lightly used boat for a fraction of its build/purchase price and then actually using it.
And that doesn't cost you money?
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:48 PM   #28
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Most heard were the complaint about the master in the bow, undersized davit, engine access, headroom, and lack of pilothouse width.
Yep, that sums up why we ruled the 55 out for living aboard after a few good hard looks. On the other hand, I always thought it is a wonderful boat to be underway on, especially after having a ride on one.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:50 PM   #29
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Yep, that sums up why we ruled the 55 out for living aboard after a few good hard looks. On the other hand, I always thought it is a wonderful boat to be underway on, especially after having a ride on one.
I liked the 65, but the 55 just never was enough boat in my mind and I don't mean it's seakeeping ability, I mean it's space, arrangement. Perhaps it was the 65 that made it seem like too little.
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:34 PM   #30
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I liked the 65, but the 55 just never was enough boat in my mind and I don't mean it's seakeeping ability, I mean it's space, arrangement. Perhaps it was the 65 that made it seem like too little.
The 65' is quite a lot of boat and very nice. I could tolerate a 55', after all I'm making do with 50' that is fairly similar in style (and negatives). I've yet to get aboard a 58'.

For the 58' I'm told that the mid-ship master GA is only selling 50% of new orders. The other 50% are sticking with the master in the bow as the overall layout then really flows and works well. From looking at the two layouts I think I would go with the bow master as well. For the mid-ship master version, the steep stairs from the pilothouse just don't cut it.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:06 PM   #31
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And that doesn't cost you money?
It doesn't lose me money hand over fist, the previous owner took that hit for me.

Yes, she costs, but as we live aboard, don't pay marina fees, electricity, water, rates etc etc its actually working out cheaper than the land based alternative.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:18 PM   #32
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It doesn't lose me money hand over fist, the previous owner took that hit for me.

Yes, she costs, but as we live aboard, don't pay marina fees, electricity, water, rates etc etc its actually working out cheaper than the land based alternative.
So it's a matter of the speed with which one spends their money. A matter of degree.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:57 PM   #33
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Any particular reason Flemings don't anchor?
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:00 PM   #34
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Any particular reason Flemings don't anchor?
Not sure what you are getting at? I have anchored with plenty of them in the PNW.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:16 PM   #35
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They anchor just as much as any other well found trawler.

I think the OP was just being facetious!
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:24 PM   #36
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So it's a matter of the speed with which one spends their money. A matter of degree.
TomAto tomARto
One man (or woman's) spending is another's losing.

Given we only have a certain amount of hours left on the planet I'd rather buy good quality massively devalued toys and spend a lot less time working and a lot more time enjoying them.
You can't buy back time.
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:01 PM   #37
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TomAto tomARto
One man (or woman's) spending is another's losing.

Given we only have a certain amount of hours left on the planet I'd rather buy good quality massively devalued toys and spend a lot less time working and a lot more time enjoying them.
You can't buy back time.
Well, we buy new and feel the same way you do. You're the one who brought up losing. Time is the most important asset after health, so use it to the fullest.

No boats are investments from a financial standpoint, but they are investments in life and pleasure. That is true whether it's a new 78' Fleming or a 40 year old 24' Glastron.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:29 PM   #38
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There is no doubt Tony Fleming makes one heck of a vessel. I did a great deal of research on Fleming and they are a well thought out vessel and well designed. It will be my next vessel as soon as life's bumps smooth out for us.


Thanks for sharing the photos.


Cheers Mate.


H.
Hey H!

Knew you'd chime in seeing as Fleming boats are on the table... err in the water.

I pray that your and yours bumps soon smooth out!

Your Irish buddy - Art

PS: Watching that fight tomorrow?? He may be Irish with a big jaw... and I'm pretty sure he could win a street fight... But... I'll not put any money on McGregor in the ring with a real pro boxer like Mayweather... under boxing rules/regs!
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:51 PM   #39
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Well, we buy new and feel the same way you do. You're the one who brought up losing. .
My point that you seem to be missing is that unless you are one of the 0.1% you are owned and going to work Monday if buying expensive shiny new toys all the time.
Your choice but to my way of thinking, time has been traded/lost in favour of keeping up appearances.
Remember, an older, lightly used well maintained Fleming is still a Fleming and a Prada handbag is just a sack you put stuff in

As I and most of us are not one of that 0.1%, for us personally we chose time, no need to work and very early retirement.
If that means putting up with the "rich kids" hand-me-downs so be it.
I'll give them a wave as they up anchor tomorrow and go back to the Monday morning rat race
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:11 AM   #40
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My point that you seem to be missing is that unless you are one of the 1% you are owned and going to work Monday if buying expensive shiny new toys all the time.
Your choice but to my way of thinking, time has been traded/lost in favour of keeping up appearances.
Remember, an older, lightly used well maintained Fleming is still a Fleming and a Prada handbag is just a sack you put stuff in

As I and most of us are not one of that 1%, for us personally we chose time, no need to work and very early retirement.
If that means putting up with the "rich kids" hand-me-downs so be it.
I'll give them a wave as they up anchor tomorrow and go back to the Monday morning rat race
Although not the path we took or necessarily recommend, there are those who bought new when young and working, financed, high payments, and retired early with the boat they'd owned for 15 years and paid off. People do buy new for reasons other than appearance and many are not exceptionally wealthy. When you talk the 1%, if you're talking of the world as a while, don't mislead yourself, because you're in it. If you're talking a single country or something it is a group you may or may not be in.

There are many different ways people choose to approach it. Yours is certainly a very good approach and one that works for many. I totally agree with you on the idea of doing what it takes to retire early and enjoy life. I fully understand your point, just don't think what you state as the best, one and only best way, is the best way for all.
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